I truly wish it was that simple Mafesto. I agree with what you said to a degree. "The Constitution" was written in a much different simplier era then the one we live in now and people have to understand this. Its principles were intended as a guide. Lucky for us, there were a bunch of forward thinking individuals who constructed it in the way they did. I believe it must change or maybe a better term would be "evolve". I 100% agree with you that is must not be changed to fit one's "Agenda". That will lead to the downfall of such a powerful piece of our democracy. Working together to find a more perfect union. The key is working together and realizing that opposing beliefs can be constructive and your beliefs need to evolve along with everything else.
Did Biden win, or was the election rigged?
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I truly wish it was that simple Mafesto. I agree with what you said to a degree. "The Constitution" was written in a much different simplier era then the one we live in now and people have to understand this. Its principles were intended as a guide. Lucky for us, there were a bunch of forward thinking individuals who constructed it in the way they did. I believe it must change or maybe a better term would be "evolve". I 100% agree with you that is must not be changed to fit one's "Agenda". That will lead to the downfall of such a powerful piece of our democracy. Working together to find a more perfect union. The key is working together and realizing that opposing beliefs can be constructive and your beliefs need to evolve along with everything else.
The only reason anyone pursues to change it is agenda driven.
It has held true for well over 2 centuries, it must not be f__ed with!
How old is The Bible?
It's lessons were good for 2000 years, pretty sure they will hold fast for 2000 more and 2000 after that.
The Constitution is nearly as sacred as The Bible
So which Constitution would you like to follow Mafesto? The original one or the one with 27 changes? Maybe you would like to pick and choose the ones you want to keep. Skratch that you would probably have your own agenda. The first 10 changes seem to be the most important today for sure so i am guessing you would want to keep them. Speaking of the bible and the idea of this forum would you like to stop at the first amendment/change the right of free speech? Would you like to stop at the second amendment/change since that one seems to be a pretty highly debated one right now? Or maybe you would like to stop at 18th since woemn have just FK the whole 2020 election up. when you say we should follow the constitution you have to specify after what change would you prefer to stop at. Because its been changed 27 times of the course of its history. This of course validated my reasoning it must change with the changing values of our time. The ability to change it is in itself the fundimental reason for its success. Let me clarify something that a collective driven agenda change is important a singular driven agenda in which i took your comment to mean will be our downfall and to which i 100% agree with you.
the use of the bible as something that has not changed over time is a ridiculous analogy for anyone to use. i probably should be more precise the interruption of it as well as the cherry picking of verses to suit ones needs sure has changed which of course gets back you your idea of agenda driven changes.
I should have chosen my words more carefully.
Before I walk it back, or attempt to restate my stance I believe I will do a little reading.
My defensiveness is reflex in response to radicals on the left with ideas like... making DC & Puerta Rico states, tinkering with the electoral system, packing the SC etc
Crazy talk like that will most certainly be met by a resounding resistance.
Before I walk it back, or attempt to restate my stance I believe I will do a little reading.
My defensiveness is reflex in response to radicals on the left with ideas like... making DC & Puerta Rico states, tinkering with the electoral system, packing the SC etc
Crazy talk like that will most certainly be met by a resounding resistance.
It’s definitely easier to see what’s going on in the states these days from a distance. The “radical “ elements on both sides are so entrenched in their ideology that they cannot see any other way. One of my big issues with Donny (aside from being the most dishonest public figure in decades) is that he is a complete radical while at the same time constantly ridiculing the “radical left”.
The US won’t heal until some middle ground is found and people look past the ends of their own noses. The radical right is so hyped up by the right wing media that the evil radical left is gonna take their guns, ban gasoline tomorrow and kill babies for fun that they can’t see the reality of the other sides position.
The radical left thinks everyone should drive a golf cart and be a vegan to save the planet and they are afraid of people that think it’s just fine and dandy to take a rifle into Wendy’s.
There’s a whole whack of people in between...
Donny definitely took advantage of these divides and did absolutely nothing to improve the situation. He actively pushed to make it worse and totally demonized the “other” side. It seems like it’s to the point that trumpies think anyone who disagrees with them is the “radical left” -look back a few posts to see my point... That definitely does not strengthen a nation.
Until you guys as a whole at least sort of try to see the other sides point you’re not going anywhere. One of the reasons I like arguing with mafesto and ask you guys direct questions (that rarely seem to get answers...) is because I’m truly fascinated that anyone can actually believe Donny’s BS and there’s some truly passionate trumpies on here...
you reference packing the court-that is extremely unlikely to happen due to the precedent that it’ll set. But you need to understand that the “other” side feels completely screwed by McConnell in that he didn’t even consider Obama’s nominee and then ran one thru what, a week before the election? When one side has the advantage and absolutely fists the other they should expect retribution. Had he just held hearings for Obama’s nominee and rejected him the picture might be a little different, but that whole situation is nothing to be proud of...
hopefully old joe is a vanilla president, doesn’t push too hard to the left and just let’s sh!t simmer down for a while.
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JTK, your second paragraph references right wing media.
You've identified one of the primary root causes of the division, but it's the mainstream media.
So we have ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, NPR championing the cause of the left. If these institutions would have simply stayed objective there wouldn't be a Fox News.
We could go back and forth about who's worse, FNC or all of the others? But when you lead with "the right wing media" I am not going waste time typing when I have a good dog and an evil cat lying next to me wanting some attention.
You've identified one of the primary root causes of the division, but it's the mainstream media.
So we have ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, NPR championing the cause of the left. If these institutions would have simply stayed objective there wouldn't be a Fox News.
We could go back and forth about who's worse, FNC or all of the others? But when you lead with "the right wing media" I am not going waste time typing when I have a good dog and an evil cat lying next to me wanting some attention.
Great discussion gentlemen, i appreciate the thoughtful comments that are rising to the top.
In reference to the political extremes and the idiots on both edges, this is the perfect meme exhibiting the world today. Whoever knows the least seems to know it the loudest.
In reference to the political extremes and the idiots on both edges, this is the perfect meme exhibiting the world today. Whoever knows the least seems to know it the loudest.
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That’s the whole freakin point-it’s not about having to choose a side at one extreme end or the other. Personally I’m gonna choose the side of moderation and sanity. Currently that’s not Donny or the really far left... birdmans meme tells it pretty well...
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Far right media sources such as OAN, rush, Steve bannon, etc are purposefully incendiary and go out of their way to promote false information. Fox News admitted in court recently that no one in their right mind would actually believe Tucker. Right wing talk radio has no equal on the left that I’ve come across anyway.
Alternatively, the “main stream” sources may not give Donny the fawning coverage you expect but they also are not getting banned from YouTube for pushing blatant falsehoods.
far left sources such as Democracy Now might whine and cry about how bad it is but they don’t demand anyone’s head on a pike... at least not that I’ve seen.
Everyone has an agenda, in media a lot of that has to do with advertising dollars. I’d bet YouTube lost a ton from banning OAN for a while, good on em for calling BS.
as I’ve said multiple times, you want to know what’s really going on look at multiple sources with multiple viewpoints an connect the dots. You want to know what really happened in any of Donny’s election court cases? Read the judges ruling, not what OAN or CNN tells you.
You want to know one of the main forces behind the rise of trumpism and the insane grip he has on his followers? Hardcore right wing media and people who believe only that source word for word and never cross check anything.
You forgot one of the biggest ones JTK Brietbart News There just as many far right media outlets as there are far left. There is no mystery as to why NewsMAX followers are growing exponentially and why Youtube shut them down from posting Videos for a Week. I know a lot of stuff being said on here is just to antagonize people with differing opinions. However there are many people on both side that actually believe fiction as Fact because they live in that media bubble. I remember that powerful video where they had this big group of young adults in a large room standing on opposite sides seemingly at odds with one another. Slowly as the narrator asked questions about life experiences and whom in the group had shared these expereinces everyone eventually was standing in the middle. the underlying message was that we are all very much alike, when we choos to focus on similarities vs our differences. Over the Years is has become very obvious that Mafesto and i most often have very difference viewpoints. that goes for a lot of people in this forum This doesn't mean i shy away from having discussions with him like this one.
I didn’t say brietbart specifically but did reference Steve bannon... he may not run it anymore but definitely influences it.
for sure there are similar numbers of sources on the far left and far right. The far right seems to be getting a lot more attention these days though
there are similarities and differences for sure, but from what I see the people who really get sucked into the right wing bubble also seem to think a 2000 year old book is still “the word of god” and has never been changed... to go back to mafestos reference-does anyone think the King James Version wasn’t manipulated to benefit king james as one example of many??
there’s a big difference between believing the preacher man and the talking heads on tv vs drawing your own conclusions. Don’t get me wrong, That happens on the far left too, and regardless of viewpoint blindly following what others tell is tragic...
Far right media sources such as OAN, rush, Steve bannon, etc are purposefully incendiary
Right wing talk radio has no equal on the left
Extremely small viewer base
Alternatively, the “main stream” sources may not give Donny the fawning coverage you expect but they also are not getting banned from YouTube for pushing blatant falsehoods.
You tube? Seriously? What you are referring to could be used to back up my argument! You tube censors the right!
Read the judges ruling, not what OAN or CNN tells you.
Thank you. You acknowledged one as extreme right the other as extreme left. The difference, CNN pretends to be a news network. OAN does not hide their agenda.
Most people do not seek out political news, they only know what they catch on tv (all of the left news outlets and FNC)
The right wing websites and radio you mentioned are only sought out by those wanting to hear what they want to here.
If you won't acknowledge that the mainstream media is in the tank for the left, we cannot proceed any further.
D
Dobber1
Well-known member
My 2 cents...yes, stereotyped from many years of observation. ?
A) Conservatives/Right Wing Nut Jobs = Middle Class + Blue Collar + Common Sense + Sense of Humor
B) Liberals/Left Wing Wackos = Upper Class + White Collar + Intellectuals & Lower Class + No Collar + Unaccomplished
Which group do you align with most? ? For the record, l‘m definitely in group A.
A) Conservatives/Right Wing Nut Jobs = Middle Class + Blue Collar + Common Sense + Sense of Humor
B) Liberals/Left Wing Wackos = Upper Class + White Collar + Intellectuals & Lower Class + No Collar + Unaccomplished
Which group do you align with most? ? For the record, l‘m definitely in group A.
Sure, CNN definitely does not give Donny any respect, but look at how he acted towards then at the beginning. Respect has to be earned, and Donny doesn’t do much to earn it from anyone other than his base, hence the fact that he lost.
Like I said above, you want to know what the judge said about Donny’s case, read what they wrote, not what the talking head on CNN, brietbart or any other source tells you because they all have an agenda.
CNN’s agenda is to make trump look stupid because he called them out multiple times, mostly over complete BS. Regardless it’s easy to see that. Newsmax as a comparison is going to be unbelievably pro trump because they are siphoning off trumpies from fox like crazy
If you are gonna call half the media totally fake because they don’t promote your viewpoint and the other side totally true then you are totally lost. They are all full of sh!t for their own reasons, and if you are gonna use the media to form opinions then you owe it to yourself to see that.
You're not listening to what I am saying.
My point has nothing to do with CNN not liking our great President Trump or him being rude to their reporters.
The mainstream media (not just CNN) has been left agenda driven for far longer than Trump has been in office.
Let me use my own mother for an example...
She doesn't seek out political news. But she certainly has her opinions on the issues and the people. So in her case, her opinion is derived from the snippets on CBS morning and evening news. So she can recite the typical sound bites when I ask why she doesn't like Trump. Then when I start listing his accomplishments, the reply is..."I don't know about that, I don't follow that close"
So like millions of Americans, she has been indoctrinated bit by bit on a daily basis.
I see this as our biggest threat, the mainstream one-sided news controls the narrative, so those not seeking out the whole stories are only seeing the left side.
This is extremely dangerous.
I would not want right wing agenda to be force fed to everyone, but the left absolutely loves their propaganda being shoved down our throats.
My point has nothing to do with CNN not liking our great President Trump or him being rude to their reporters.
The mainstream media (not just CNN) has been left agenda driven for far longer than Trump has been in office.
Let me use my own mother for an example...
She doesn't seek out political news. But she certainly has her opinions on the issues and the people. So in her case, her opinion is derived from the snippets on CBS morning and evening news. So she can recite the typical sound bites when I ask why she doesn't like Trump. Then when I start listing his accomplishments, the reply is..."I don't know about that, I don't follow that close"
So like millions of Americans, she has been indoctrinated bit by bit on a daily basis.
I see this as our biggest threat, the mainstream one-sided news controls the narrative, so those not seeking out the whole stories are only seeing the left side.
This is extremely dangerous.
I would not want right wing agenda to be force fed to everyone, but the left absolutely loves their propaganda being shoved down our throats.
Huge court win lets Trump present ballot evidence, could overturn Nevada result - Washington Examiner
A Nevada judge has agreed to let the Trump campaign present its evidence that fraud and illegalities plagued the state’s election, enough to reverse Joe Biden's win and set an example for other state challenges.According to Trump officials, the judge set a Dec. 3 hearing date and is allowing 15...
www.washingtonexaminer.com
Giuliani At PA Election Hearing: "You’ve Sent Out 1.8 Million Ballots And The Number You Counted Is 2.5 Million"
The “where’s the evidence argument” is dead. Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani in the presence of Republican leaders in PA released an absolute bombshell. Giuliani was quoted saying “You sent out in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 1,823,148 absentee or mail-in ballots. You received back 1.4...
welovetrump.com
At the same time you show that you don’t “get” it either. When you start listing his “accomplishments “ what is your source for those? Right wing media? What are his “accomplishments “ anyway outside of right wing media indoctrination?? Dividing the country beyond repair? 40 something miles of border wall, some of which blew over in a windstorm that Mexico didn’t pay for?A “great” healthcare package in “2 weeks”? The bigliest beautifulest bestest infrastructure plan ever? Iran enriching waaaaay more uranium then they ever would have under the deal he exited with no forward planning? His voter fraud commission in 2016 that found nothing and was disbanded?? He even had control of the legislature for 2 years and all he did was pass a tax cut for the rich that drove the deficit thru the roof. C’mon, what did he really do besides golf, whine and scream that “no president has ever done more betterer stuff than me”...
and don’t try with the BS unemployment numbers, a month before the 2016 election according to Donny the unemployment rate was “over 40%” because according to him the evil dems faked it. Funny that a few weeks after the inauguration the unemployment rate was the “best ever”...
all he accomplished was getting guys like you to believe whatever he decided was real on any given day, and that goes to this whole fraud thing too. What did he say in 2016 when Cruz won Iowa? “If it wasn’t for the massive fraud by Cruz I won, the election should be annulled or re-done”. Sound familiar??? If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then maybe it’s a ....?
you talk about someone who watches CBS being “indoctrinated “, look in the mirror.
Then why did a republican federal judge throw them outta court with prejudice because they had no evidence???? Rudy isn’t saying anything new, it’s the same BS as before that case...Giuliani At PA Election Hearing: "You’ve Sent Out 1.8 Million Ballots And The Number You Counted Is 2.5 Million"
The “where’s the evidence argument” is dead. Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani in the presence of Republican leaders in PA released an absolute bombshell. Giuliani was quoted saying “You sent out in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 1,823,148 absentee or mail-in ballots. You received back 1.4...
