Det issues continue.... Tried everything it seems! 11 pro

[Octanee]

Got out for another ride today, I reset my numbers back to what boost it had said to run, Certainly too rich on the bottom end, it just bogs terribly and won't rev out, So over the course of my ride I pulled fuel down low, ~5500-6250 rpm, maybe could try 6500 as well, and it allowed it to bog less/stutter and rev out sooner and more crisper however still a bit doggy. their map has a base fuel of 65 points, I went back to 60 points. and Tried to trim some elevation trim but it had thrown the DET on me in and out of the throttle Whether an over rev or actually lean? who knows lol, So then I richened up the mid range a bit from ~6750-7750 rpm, Sled rev's so quick up in that range anyways who knows whats really happening. Pretty much the rest of my day I never threw the det code after that. I had it happen once when I was doing a sidehill/uphill quick climb and playing the throttle on and off really quick, Added a bit more fuel mid range but end of my ride for the day, And at that I could of even maybe triggered it through over revving perhaps for that moment?

The numbers I had pulled for that 55-65 rpm range worked out OK on the trail, under light throttle/boost I was ~16:1 ish on a/f as I got reading many say is where it should be at. I also trimmed numbers to be closer/around 12:1 A/f under boost.

That said I notice when I do hit the throttle the thing does seem to read for a moment pig rich, whether thats due to turbo's already spool'd out and/or my mid-high range is a bit rich still, (or not)? it'll show ~10:1 then leans up, thats during the moment where I've hit it wide open and the sled starts to spool out and finally is running ~8000 rpm and finds its self back up to ~12:1. everything happens so darn fast though!, So maybe I should try trimming some fuel back in the mid-higher range, or just leave it.... I don't seem to hang out around those rpm's just your usual transition when on off throttle.

 

[kgra]

I think racin station bought out boostit. Try calling them and see if they got any updated numbers for the box.

 

[Octanee]

I think racin station bought out boostit. Try calling them and see if they got any updated numbers for the box.

Thanks for the info, I will certainly look into that.


I got thinking my bog I have may actually be a clutching issue, I have loaded up my adjustable weights (Dalton ones with set screws) then I had welded some tip weight as well to try and help with rpm spikes. So now I'm thinking maybe I need to grind my welds off. Or?? I had talked to mtntk and they suggested keeping the tip weight as that's your high rpm adjustment but remove my set screws up in the middle of my weights., thinking to try that for this up coming weekend.

Just trying to understand and wrap my head around weight placement on your clutch weights and behaviour. I read heel weight is starting Rpm, mid weighting is mid rpm, tip is top end rpm, however I'd assume tip weight would effect full rpm as well as it's more likely to force it shift sooner or no? Hmm.. Lots to learn!

Mini update: I inspected my weights and weighed one, I had it at 80grams. Removed all weight set screws, left my welds on for now which are top weight. All in it is at 72.5g. Will see again on the weekend how that goes.

 

[Octanee]

Got out again today, And unfortunately it seemed like the issue wanted to come back more. I started out at a lower elevation and from the get go I noticed my clutching was certainly peppier but I still had my mid range stutter/bog and also now a top end bog. If I was 3/4 throttle it would be boosting just fine and rev out, when I stab the throttle to 100% it would bog out. I had tried to loop my power valves together which almost seemed worse but not long after unloading I hooked it back up to my solenoid which didn't help. I started to lean out my fuel ranges more into the 6k and 7k range and it ran better and better again, but the issue still showed it's self, Never had a top end bog yet.... RPM was good still, about 8k or so.

Thinking a power valve issue, hard to say, it's been one thing after another on this thing since I've gotten it. I had them out, I know they arent sticking, they are working, no bad bellows. But somebody did mention to me about the powervalve springs and with a turbo you want the stiffest. factory is said to be orange/the stiffest, and what I see in it right now appears to be a Yellow/Pink and unable to find info on it. I took them out tonight to verify, the cylinder pressure port is also clear.


playing the throttle on and off again, throwing DET. on the way down flying down the trail I was say ~1/2 to 3/4 throttle somewhat loaded up with boost, 7600 ish rpm, air fuel was good. and let off and it threw the DET again. Try richening and it seems to get worse for sure, leaning it runs better and lower chance of det. Noticed my exhaust shield is loose so I'll try and make it tighter.

 

[TRS]

I think you just found your problem. We have been running the blue or blue/white springs in the Pro turbo. If the valve opens to late it will det. 7600 range is where the valves should be wide open. If not it will det. Here is the part numbers for all the springs.

 

[live2beel]

I think your looking in the wrong area? I had a lot of the same problems as you and it ended up being electrical. Clean and check all plugs. My voltage regulator and main stator plug had very loose terminal connections. I was getting EV solenoid and low Vbat codes. Hope it helps.

 

[TRS]

I think your looking in the wrong area? I had a lot of the same problems as you and it ended up being electrical. Clean and check all plugs. My voltage regulator and main stator plug had very loose terminal connections. I was getting EV solenoid and low Vbat codes. Hope it helps.

Yes, all connections should be checked.
A 9-11.5# spring will keep your valves closed to long. The ECU changes timing at 7600, if the valves aren’t open compression goes sky high with boost and with the advanced timing change at 7600 rpm your going to get det. Period.

 

[Octanee]

I think your looking in the wrong area? I had a lot of the same problems as you and it ended up being electrical. Clean and check all plugs. My voltage regulator and main stator plug had very loose terminal connections. I was getting EV solenoid and low Vbat codes. Hope it helps.

I wouldn't say wrong area per say, I think its A issue, hopefully THE issue, but I've had tons of issues, common and uncommon with these polaris's on my journey so far.... I'm glad to say so far no electrical issues. I had many plugs apart and checked them, but yes you never know if a terminal decides to spread. I have had no codes other than DET since I've owned the sled.

Yes, all connections should be checked.
A 9-11.5# spring will keep your valves closed to long. The ECU changes timing at 7600, if the valves aren’t open compression goes sky high with boost and with the advanced timing change at 7600 rpm your going to get det. Period.

Thanks TRS, I greatly appreciate the Info! and recommendation of spring, I will get them ordered and can only cross my fingers. I was googling and did read somewhere as well (maybe an old post of yours) that it can trigger Det codes as you had just mentioned as well. That rpm of 7600 or so seems to be around the area/ "mid range" rpm I'm thinking its throwing the det being when im on-off the throttle. I can hold it pinned all day and not have an issue., I looked up the blue/white spring by part number and polaris website wont bring it up But googling further a newer straight blue spring same rate of 4/6 7041704-01 and does list on the polaris site. will that work? could get one hopefully by next weekend if it will.

Trs, Do you guys plug off the valves as well? or run a Line between the 2? Or leave them hooked up to the factory solenoid?

 

[TRS]

I wouldn't say wrong area per say, I think its A issue, hopefully THE issue, but I've had tons of issues, common and uncommon with these polaris's on my journey so far.... I'm glad to say so far no electrical issues. I had many plugs apart and checked them, but yes you never know if a terminal decides to spread. I have had no codes other than DET since I've owned the sled.



Thanks TRS, I greatly appreciate the Info! and recommendation of spring, I will get them ordered and can only cross my fingers. I was googling and did read somewhere as well (maybe an old post of yours) that it can trigger Det codes as you had just mentioned as well. That rpm of 7600 or so seems to be around the area/ "mid range" rpm I'm thinking its throwing the det being when im on-off the throttle. I can hold it pinned all day and not have an issue., I looked up the blue/white spring by part number and polaris website wont bring it up But googling further a newer straight blue spring same rate of 4/6 7041704-01 and does list on the polaris site. will that work? could get one hopefully by next weekend if it will.

Trs, Do you guys plug off the valves as well? or run a Line between the 2? Or leave them hooked up to the factory solenoid?

Leave it Hooked up as factory. If you plug or disconect them it will det as soon as you hit 7600.
Blue works, the blue/whites were double the blue price. Make sure you order two.
Hope you wrote down your original fueling numbers.
Make sure your fittings on the solenoid are not leaking also.

Rogers may have them in stock 307-587-6818

 

[Octanee]

A little update, So my springs never came, had been 2 weeks, I mean they came but the supplier shipped wrong part vs what was requested. I got my hands on some stock springs, which is the orange one, Decided to give them a try, see if I notice any improvement. Put them in and tested my solenoid to make sure it was sealing and opening when power applied and in the garage it was doing its thing.


Now to the ride, I left my numbers pretty much where they were and it ran good that way, What I noticed is less of a initial stutter/as long of it when punching the throttle and once it does take off it takes off hard, grab throttle again its nice and crisp and would rev stupid fast once the turbo's spooled. leaning it up made that stutter/hesitation be less and less so I believe its still a bit on the rich side in the bottom.

Now the issues I had, It still threw DET, And I'm still thinking power valve issues.

#1 It never seemed as likely although could be coincidential? to throwing DET when I was in and out of the throttle like it would before, I did get it to happen but I think I was holding throttle about 1/3 -1/2 somewhat boosting it then hitting the throttle wide open, which leads me into my next/new finding? This was following a soft trail up through trees up a hill side, I'm not focused on the sled , just where I'm going. This time If I held throttle say ~ 1/4, you know sidehilling along in some powder, its enough load that the sled starts boosting, boost climbs and rev's climb, during that time it doesn't sound Crisp, more muffled, I imagine that the power valves are still closed, and itll go up to ~7500-8k rpm like that and bam itll throw DET again, coming into that range that TRS mentioned about 7600 rpm it'll det every time if the valves arent open... no pops no nothing that way, it just doesn't wind out and sound crisp so guessing power valves staying closed.

#2 Periodically a random bog wide open, I'll punch it, sled sounds crisp as it's reving out, It gets up to ~8300 rpm, Then itll bog right out, blehhh and i'll play the throttle a few times to get it to go again. Before it bogs out my a/f reading looks just fine at ~12:1 ish. Doesn't do it all the time but certainly the odd time. I'm wondering/thinking the power valve is being closed all the sudden for some reason. Seemed like if I was 3/4 throttle it was OK but that last 1/4 throttle Ish it would possibly bog out.

With #1 perhaps again with TRS recommending the lighter than stock spring, maybe that's to get the valve to open up sooner and may ease/remove that 1/4 throttle bog/DET from my assumption of the valve not opening up yet.

Maybe I have solenoid issues? maybe my ecm or maybe not at all, just spring? hmm..

When does the solenoid decide to open forcing the valves to close? what kind of conditions for the solenoid to work? does that last maybe 1/4 throttle make a difference in regards to the solenoid or no?,

I can't remember but I thought I read about somebody saying the factory polaris tune having a lean spot in the map, What rpm's was that? unsure if somehow that may be an issue of mine.


As always greatly appreciate the input!

 

[NapaMatt]

What are you using for a rubber between the inter-cooler and the Head?

I have found that an Axys Engine Rubber mount from the mag side with softer rubber to be perfect fit!!

 

[NapaMatt]

A little update, So my springs never came, had been 2 weeks, I mean they came but the supplier shipped wrong part vs what was requested. I got my hands on some stock springs, which is the orange one, Decided to give them a try, see if I notice any improvement. Put them in and tested my solenoid to make sure it was sealing and opening when power applied and in the garage it was doing its thing.


Now to the ride, I left my numbers pretty much where they were and it ran good that way, What I noticed is less of a initial stutter/as long of it when punching the throttle and once it does take off it takes off hard, grab throttle again its nice and crisp and would rev stupid fast once the turbo's spooled. leaning it up made that stutter/hesitation be less and less so I believe its still a bit on the rich side in the bottom.

Now the issues I had, It still threw DET, And I'm still thinking power valve issues.

#1 It never seemed as likely although could be coincidential? to throwing DET when I was in and out of the throttle like it would before, I did get it to happen but I think I was holding throttle about 1/3 -1/2 somewhat boosting it then hitting the throttle wide open, which leads me into my next/new finding? This was following a soft trail up through trees up a hill side, I'm not focused on the sled , just where I'm going. This time If I held throttle say ~ 1/4, you know sidehilling along in some powder, its enough load that the sled starts boosting, boost climbs and rev's climb, during that time it doesn't sound Crisp, more muffled, I imagine that the power valves are still closed, and itll go up to ~7500-8k rpm like that and bam itll throw DET again, coming into that range that TRS mentioned about 7600 rpm it'll det every time if the valves arent open... no pops no nothing that way, it just doesn't wind out and sound crisp so guessing power valves staying closed.

#2 Periodically a random bog wide open, I'll punch it, sled sounds crisp as it's reving out, It gets up to ~8300 rpm, Then itll bog right out, blehhh and i'll play the throttle a few times to get it to go again. Before it bogs out my a/f reading looks just fine at ~12:1 ish. Doesn't do it all the time but certainly the odd time. I'm wondering/thinking the power valve is being closed all the sudden for some reason. Seemed like if I was 3/4 throttle it was OK but that last 1/4 throttle Ish it would possibly bog out.

With #1 perhaps again with TRS recommending the lighter than stock spring, maybe that's to get the valve to open up sooner and may ease/remove that 1/4 throttle bog/DET from my assumption of the valve not opening up yet.

Maybe I have solenoid issues? maybe my ecm or maybe not at all, just spring? hmm..

When does the solenoid decide to open forcing the valves to close? what kind of conditions for the solenoid to work? does that last maybe 1/4 throttle make a difference in regards to the solenoid or no?,

I can't remember but I thought I read about somebody saying the factory polaris tune having a lean spot in the map, What rpm's was that? unsure if somehow that may be an issue of mine.


As always greatly appreciate the input!

Any updates??

 

[Octanee]

Any updates??

I thought I updated with my resolution, the long and short of it, it was my exhaust valve springs causing all my issues, for some reason they/somebody put in stiffer than stock, when you go turbo you want stock spring or lighter but preferably lighter, it held the exhaust valves closed longer causing excessive pressure and heat which led to the detonation every time.

huge shout out to TRS for being a huge help with the sled, if it wasn't for him I don't think I'd of thought to check them,

 

[NapaMatt]

Nice!!

Been battling det.. just installed these last night. Waiting to test later today

Thanks!!

 

[NapaMatt]

Blue For the Win!!

Exh, valve Springs!!
Turbo Pro

Add to ur turbo list!!

 

[sledhead_79]

I think you just found your problem. We have been running the blue or blue/white springs in the Pro turbo. If the valve opens to late it will det. 7600 range is where the valves should be wide open. If not it will det. Here is the part numbers for all the springs.

What is installed from factory?

 

[NapaMatt]

orange springs