Designing a snowflap...

[TLKDPROD]

Ok guys, this has been through my head for a few days now and so far I still didn't find the perfect solution... Some of you might think I’m pushing the envelope too far here but I don’t care… AD Boivin were pushing the envelope when they designed the Hawk !

Let's suppose the following :
a guy has a fan cooled 503 OR a liquid cooled Hawk that's got a radiator in the rails instead of underneath the seat like a stock Hawk. He uses it in the mountains so of course this guy doesn't want to ride the stock snow flap that creates drag and throws a considerable amount of snow in the tunnel (which creates drag here as well). The Snow-Hawk tunnel, elbow section in particular, is pretty tight, the less snow you throw in there the better track speed you’ll get. Riding without the snow flap offers good performance but the amount of snow accumulation in your back and helmet area is just ridiculous and you butt gets all wet after an hour or two.
SO, I was thinking it’s about time we come up with a new Snow flap that has these characteristics:

I’m thinking of a snow flap that :

1 - Deviates most of the snow from entering in the tunnel.
2 - Doesn’t create ANY drag of any sort.
3 - Keeps the snow off your back.
4 - Looks cool (Don’t worry, if it has to look like a$$ to meet the 3 above conditions, I’ll make it look cool by making a graphic kit for it. Then it’ll look killer.)

I ‘m doing this post just in case any of you guys had a genius idea in mind after reading this, it’s something anybody can bring it’s little contribution. A Snow flap isn’t something complicated like building a tubular Hawk Frame, anybody can visualize a Snowflap and draw their idea. So of course if you have an idea, draw it on a piece of paper, take a photo of it and post it under this thread. Somebody else’s idea can lead someone else to the perfect solution so don’t be afraid. It’s a brainstorming session here.

By the way, I know Peter from whitesurf.ca sells an aftermarket snow flap that works very good apparently. But this design, similar to the stock design, where the UHMW flap is placed parallel to the track / around the track will more than probably still throw some snow in the tunnel, which is a thing I/we don’t want. I’d rather go another way.

Crazy ideas welcome ! There isn’t much we can’t make happen !

Thanks for your time ! Thierry.

 

[TLKDPROD]

Here's a blank drawing you can print and draw over.

 

[TLKDPROD]

Here's what I'm thinking... That needs work still. Frame would have to be anchored more solidly to the rails I beleive...

 

[J&L Snowhawk]

options

I think it would be best to not have anything mounted to the side of the rails because that is like an anchor on the outside of the rail. I see your idea of just making a flap stick up in the air on top of the track to keep snow from flying forward.

back to looking stupid but just need longer tail piece to extend over track like a 2 ski.

how about a fiberglass whip antena with a cloth cover of some sort?

 

[diirtbag]

I like your idea but should be over top of the track totoally so when you trench or get stuck it dosent hang you up ,I am going to look at mine and do some thinking

 

[cjgodden]

I'm with J&L on this one. Your gonna have to extend the tail section to accomplish your goal. Building the flap you have in the pic would defleck the snow but there is still a small space between the flap and the track that the track will try to push snow through, still robbing hp. I think no matter what you do its gonna look goofy.

Personally i'm happy with the stock scoop if I could just keep from ripping the d a m n thing off every 3rd or so ride.

Maybe I'll have to try a pull on the hill with the scoop and then take it off and do another pull and see for myself how much a difference it makes.

 

[roo]

fender!

Tim moto cam 360, could you please chime in on this one! if you could post a pic of your fender and which sled it came off of that would be cool!

 

[off road rider]

Tim moto cam 360, could you please chime in on this one! if you could post a pic of your fender and which sled it came off of that would be cool!

Great Thoughts..
Tims is cool, and am the direction Im going.. super easy to fab and lets you grab the track for stucks..

 

[Travis616]

Snowflap

I made a flap that is similar to the stock one but more compact. It is shorter on the top and ends sooner at the back, you can control how much snow is carried up the track by altering the lenght of the snowflap in relation to the end length of it. If you stand behind you machine and look down past the rear edge of the flap and line it up with the end of the track lug, you will get the last point where snow will eject past it. I pit mine so that it will spit snow out on about a 45 degree angle, it lets a bit come around to cool the exchangers and keeps the rest off of my back. Hope I didn't ramble on again.

 

[TLKDPROD]

Hmmm, I hear you guys here, interesting stuff. Thanks for your inputs.

Dirtbag, you're right, most of it should be over the track. J&L, For sure the side mounts on the rails acts like an anchor, we don't get away with it if we build a flap that hooks up to the rails. But let's take the stock flap for example where the bend is towards the back of the track, that creates a flat surface against the snow. If we bend it towards the top, we will have less drag for sure. And yes CJGodden, the track will still have to push snow through a little canal which will create drag, that's a thing. That could be adjusted or positionned though so it doesn't create any/too much. Let's say 2" of clearance between the track and the snowflap instead of about an inch. Might work good or might not, I don't know.

To do this so it's efficient, I'm trying to figure out the physics of it : when does most of the snow ejects off of the lugs ? It has to somwhere when the track gets around the rear idler wheel. Between which degrees most of the snow actually leaves the track, that's a good question ? If we ever find the answer, the flap would have to be right after that degree so the flap catches snow after it just left the lug; that, theorically, wouldn't create drag caus track doesn't try to push snow through, that snow is already off of it. This is theory here, what happens for real is another story !

And it is certainly not an impossible thing to extend the rear section actually. I need to make new "sub frame" extensions for a mod I'm working on right now anyway so I could just add 2 mounting points where I can mount whatever bracket on it. BUT, I don't know where you're going with this idea though guys, if I do a "tunnel extension", there is no way snow can escape from there, take a sled for example; all the snow they shovel either gets thrown to the heat exchanger and/or tunnel and/or snow flap. Whatever gets to the heat exchanger or tunnel falls back ON the track then gets processed/pushed through the tunnel, right ? It might work if you're talking about adding only two sides that will hold the flap itself. But then the distance from the flap and the track will always vary, which is not a major problem and we can make it work that way.

Having a handle in the back of the track for when you get stuck is certainly an awesome idea to me. Not that I get stuck too often but... it can happen once or twice... a day !!!

Travis616, i'd like to see yours. Tim from Motocam too. Fiberglass whip antenna with a piece of clothing ??? Drawing please !

Thanks !

 

[TLKDPROD]

Personally i'm happy with the stock scoop if I could just keep from ripping the d a m n thing off every 3rd or so ride.

I ripped mine off too on my last ride this past season, realized it when I got back to my trailer...

 

[Travis616]

Snowflap pics

 

[off road rider]

Tims is just a fender extension. Ill try to get him to post a photo.
Looks almost factory and works great.. its basically like riding without a snowflap and you dont get wet..

 

[2006sigouin]

I ripped mine off too and ride for 2 hrs just to find it back.For now on when i am riding in powder ,i take it off ! I think just the fender extension is a good idea cause instaling something on side of the rail very rigid would of cause me some repair last season just from hits under snow like logs and rocks...

 

[TLKDPROD]

A rear fender extension could also be a good idea and it might work quite well actually. Easy to build and test too.

Does Tim's work good ? Offroadrider, do you know how far the rear idler wheel of a 2moto sits from the fender of a bike ?

Roo, can you build a rear cowling out of something ? I'd totaly see this piece of plastic being redesigned with a few mods like this fender extension and without the two stupid ribs on each side of the tank that I took off because they were bothering my knees too much... You can't get a good squeeze on the tank with them (for those who rode MX and are used to squeze their tank...) .

Keep the ideas coming guys, a combination between 2 ideas might be the solution here and I like this one, makes sense.

 

[IbBroken]

I think that one for the skid would work but i would like to have it removable with a quick lock system for deep snow conditions. Im not sure if you could build a fender extention that would hold up and not look like arse. Just my thoughts. P.S im back online and in my new house Took 4 months off and holy SH-- did i miss this site

 

[off road rider]

A rear fender extension could also be a good idea and it might work quite well actually. Easy to build and test too.

Does Tim's work good ? Offroadrider, do you know how far the rear idler wheel of a 2moto sits from the fender of a bike ?

Keep the ideas coming guys, a combination between 2 ideas might be the solution here and I like this one, makes sense.

I thought we where Talking Hawk here??????

 

[snowhawkaddict]

Found a buyer for your "friends" 2Moto kit!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9axUugGPkdM

 

[TLKDPROD]

Well, doesn't look like I got many more ideas rather than the fender extension...

That keeps bugging my mind almost every day... I might have the perfect solution coming at my mind while staring at a girl with a thong or something, who knows...

 

[diirtbag]

I have been looking at it and think anything off the skid is going to create drag,and a handle on the back seems like a good idea, then a small tunnel with an angled snow flap