corona virus
- Thread starter slyrydr
- Start date
Gosh I thought I had a hard time focusing on one topic..
1. Real estate inflation...good? If you didn't buy 5 years ago too bad?
2. Stock price inflation...good? If you didnt buy 5 years ago too bad?
3. Pre construction meetings running long bad? Talking about elements of the project that are outside your expertise boring? Just let the man run the excavator! If you hit a water line too bad!
4. Liberal arts degrees bad? Higher earning degrees hard but are what everyone should have one?
Solid rant with some great observations on how the world looks to an out of touch old man. Well done.
Can't wait for the reply, which Maf does all the time, of "you kids just don't get it". Lol
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EU travel is about to open up to those with vaccinations! Already booked a trip to Italy next year. Maybe go back to Germany this year? Flash that card to go? Come on Canada...we aren't all idiots here, let us back in! Lol
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
Making money in real estate and stocks is easy if you have money...very familiar with that. But if that house is your home (cause you have to live somewhere), and not an investment property, you haven’t “made” anything. If you sell, you just have to buy back in for the most part.
How about the sub-30 y/o people trying to break in to the market now with a $500k starter home? It’s pretty easy math...Saving up a 10% down payment for that with an average job while paying $1500/month rent for a basement suite would take approx 3 years, and in that time the house prices have climbed even further...so maybe 5, 6 years? If you ever catch up? No big deal tho right.
Or you could do it quicker living at home...but then the boomers ridicule you for being a mooch. That’s always a nice touch.
Why ridicule certain degrees that don’t meet your criteria? Don’t all jobs need doing? That said, I will definitely agree the education system does a very poor job of translating education to end goals. Those degrees you listed require substantial time and financial investments...but then you ridicule people for having big student loans. Can’t win eh?
Where the boomers had it easy...was that it all just worked, you didn’t have to be strategic. You could work hard at (almost any job), buy a house, invest some money and it all worked out. People did GREAT, raised families, bought houses and new cars with 0 education and grocery store jobs. As the boomer generation grows older, they are literally hoarding wealth in the form of multiple real estate properties and good job positions. I’m not saying I wouldn’t do the same...but it’s a problem nonetheless.
I actually like discussing financial stuff like this. It’s always a chuckle how defensive boomers get over pure facts. “The kids don’t work these days” is pure BS gramps...sorry.
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Nelson. I don’t think your a bad guy in any way. We have different perspectives based on what we see and believe. My generation felt the same way. A day late and a dollar short. Working hard for what?
You can however learn from the old crowd if listening would happen and not talking over each other. I try to help the younger guys every day but the mostly don’t respect and won’t listen.
I rented a room for 5 years so I could save for a down payment and have 20% down so I didn’t have to waste my money on mortgage insurance. I bought a fixer upper that my parents thought was crazy expensive. I worked as much as I could at my paying job and then paid cash for what I couldn’t fix myself. When I got my loan they said I qualified for 2x the money I was borrowing. I didn’t fall into that nasty trap. I purchased the home on a 15 year loan instead of a 30.
I couldn’t afford to invest in the blue chip stocks and instead bought penny stocks. Lost some money but for the most part did real well on those.
When it came to buying toys I saved and payed cash. Never having the latest but had a good time with them just the same.
It was never easy doing the right thing and slowly growing my wealth. A divorce or health issue quickly erodes what you worked for your whole life.
I really honestly don’t think I had it any easier or better than any of you younger guys. Make a good plan, sacrifice and work hard. You too will get there. Buy low and sell high. It’s a waiting game. Trust me people with money aren’t buying now. They are waiting to buy up the spoils of those who bought over asking without an inspection when housing crashes. It will it always does. Same with the stock market.
Save and be ready
You can however learn from the old crowd if listening would happen and not talking over each other. I try to help the younger guys every day but the mostly don’t respect and won’t listen.
I rented a room for 5 years so I could save for a down payment and have 20% down so I didn’t have to waste my money on mortgage insurance. I bought a fixer upper that my parents thought was crazy expensive. I worked as much as I could at my paying job and then paid cash for what I couldn’t fix myself. When I got my loan they said I qualified for 2x the money I was borrowing. I didn’t fall into that nasty trap. I purchased the home on a 15 year loan instead of a 30.
I couldn’t afford to invest in the blue chip stocks and instead bought penny stocks. Lost some money but for the most part did real well on those.
When it came to buying toys I saved and payed cash. Never having the latest but had a good time with them just the same.
It was never easy doing the right thing and slowly growing my wealth. A divorce or health issue quickly erodes what you worked for your whole life.
I really honestly don’t think I had it any easier or better than any of you younger guys. Make a good plan, sacrifice and work hard. You too will get there. Buy low and sell high. It’s a waiting game. Trust me people with money aren’t buying now. They are waiting to buy up the spoils of those who bought over asking without an inspection when housing crashes. It will it always does. Same with the stock market.
Save and be ready
Well said. Main problem with it is most people are trying to do the exact same thing you are saying you did. To a T exact same thing. Nobody wants to be up to their eyeballs in debt. But yet you bully them and condescend that they are wasting their time ****ing around on their phones. Meanwhile they are buying stocks with no fees through an app. They are working side hustles to make extra coin because their primary job doesn't pay enough.
We could have a whole new topic to open your eyes to the balance of income to expenses are no where near what you experienced. You can't find a cheap starter home to fix up in popular urban areas without massive cash. Every house here is selling for 5 to 10% over asking and with cash buyer and no contingencies.
We've been saying for years, wait it out until prices go down. Bubble this and bubble that. It isn't likely to happen. The last time was because wall street crooks played games with mortgages. What is going to pop it this time? Seriously. The pandemic didn't make it better it made it worse. The economy didn't crumble and everyone is unemployed like the media pundits said (keep saying). It just got more expensive to have a decent lifestyle.
We could have a whole new topic to open your eyes to the balance of income to expenses are no where near what you experienced. You can't find a cheap starter home to fix up in popular urban areas without massive cash. Every house here is selling for 5 to 10% over asking and with cash buyer and no contingencies.
We've been saying for years, wait it out until prices go down. Bubble this and bubble that. It isn't likely to happen. The last time was because wall street crooks played games with mortgages. What is going to pop it this time? Seriously. The pandemic didn't make it better it made it worse. The economy didn't crumble and everyone is unemployed like the media pundits said (keep saying). It just got more expensive to have a decent lifestyle.
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Jaynelson
Well-known member
Sideline - different perspectives yes, but your experience is nearly word for word how I’ve done my life, and I respect that 100%. It’s working out fine so far...been a bit of a grind, but I’m not young (37) nor do I feel bad for myself. I have investments and multiple properties, got in to real estate a dozen years ago...all good. Straight up I made it work initially by living at home longer than I wanted to to save up a good down stroke. And often having side income instead of just 9-5’s. Sucked at times, but it worked. It required more fancy moves, strategy and patience for me than my parents....and still will in order to pay down things quickly, or for any larger purchases. For better or worse....that’s the way it is (was).
But again I don’t feel bad for me, I’m fine...I genuinely DO feel bad for the sub-30 crowd now. I feel the system is broken for them, and I’m not sure how it will work out. The last few years have driven a huge wedge between people who have assets, and people who don’t. Covid took that and multiplied it by 2 in a year IMO. I feel the barriers to entry are MUCH higher than ever before, and in many cases... contingent on inherited wealth to bridge the gap between have/have not. Problem with that is that the boomers are going to burn through a TON of cash in retirement because they have grown accustomed to living in bug houses, good lifestyles, etc. Again for better or worse...and it remains to be seen how it all plays out. So can it work for the young dudes? Sure. Can an average kid do it? Not so sure...or “it depends.” Can you buy a house and support a family on a grocery store wage? Unlikely. Is there more margin for error on career/school choice, investments and living situation than ever before? Combined with larger barriers to entry in everything from good jobs to housing? Absolutely....I don’t think there’s a legitimate argument otherwise.
But again I don’t feel bad for me, I’m fine...I genuinely DO feel bad for the sub-30 crowd now. I feel the system is broken for them, and I’m not sure how it will work out. The last few years have driven a huge wedge between people who have assets, and people who don’t. Covid took that and multiplied it by 2 in a year IMO. I feel the barriers to entry are MUCH higher than ever before, and in many cases... contingent on inherited wealth to bridge the gap between have/have not. Problem with that is that the boomers are going to burn through a TON of cash in retirement because they have grown accustomed to living in bug houses, good lifestyles, etc. Again for better or worse...and it remains to be seen how it all plays out. So can it work for the young dudes? Sure. Can an average kid do it? Not so sure...or “it depends.” Can you buy a house and support a family on a grocery store wage? Unlikely. Is there more margin for error on career/school choice, investments and living situation than ever before? Combined with larger barriers to entry in everything from good jobs to housing? Absolutely....I don’t think there’s a legitimate argument otherwise.
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You may be correct. Under 30 might have a hard time gaining financial traction in the COVID era. History repeats itself. When I was starting out AIDS was the big unknown. We had the biggest stock market crash since the depression. 18% interest on home loans. High gas prices and inflation. Stagnant income. You have to remember it’s all temporary.
Why get a liberal arts degree when you can become a journey man electrition or plumber in 5 years and make $70 an hour. Actually getting paid to learn. Building wealth now. Not in 5 years. No tuition to pay back.
I have 14 and 16 year old sons. I’m not worried about them. Sure they will have struggles. I did, you did, we all did. We spend hours doing homework and getting good grades. They have to work and learn what’s it’s like to make, save and spend. They are taught to put your phone down. Look a man in his eye and shake hands with a firm grip. They are taught to respect their elders and learn from them. Don’t we all wish we paid more attention to the advise we were given by them.
Under 30 will make it no problem if they want it bad enough to sacrifice,work hard and wait for it. Same way you and I did it. Don’t feel sorry for them. Show them the way. Show them we are worth listening too and went through the same things in a different time
Why get a liberal arts degree when you can become a journey man electrition or plumber in 5 years and make $70 an hour. Actually getting paid to learn. Building wealth now. Not in 5 years. No tuition to pay back.
I have 14 and 16 year old sons. I’m not worried about them. Sure they will have struggles. I did, you did, we all did. We spend hours doing homework and getting good grades. They have to work and learn what’s it’s like to make, save and spend. They are taught to put your phone down. Look a man in his eye and shake hands with a firm grip. They are taught to respect their elders and learn from them. Don’t we all wish we paid more attention to the advise we were given by them.
Under 30 will make it no problem if they want it bad enough to sacrifice,work hard and wait for it. Same way you and I did it. Don’t feel sorry for them. Show them the way. Show them we are worth listening too and went through the same things in a different time
Not arguing here. That was a nice point. I just like filling in the gaps of that logic.
If you have kids that are 14 and 16 you are likely not a boomer. So why are you standing up for them? They have some traditions that are mainstays to the American culture but overall they are dramatically out of touch IMO. Look at the example recently of NYC politicians thinking that buying a place in Brooklyn was $90k when it is $900k.
You are likely a Gen X so you have had to bridge the gap between technophobes and technology addicts. You've also seen the divide between right and left wings grow greater. As a parent how to you convey that these patterns are cyclical? That in the 80s things looked bleak as well and we rebounded? Who is your hero and who is your villain in those instances? Keeping it covid related, why do we not have 100% agreement that the disease is the villain? Why do we let kooks twist the villain into being scientists, public figures, or restrictions of freedom? That just confuses people and builds on their culture war.
If you have kids that are 14 and 16 you are likely not a boomer. So why are you standing up for them? They have some traditions that are mainstays to the American culture but overall they are dramatically out of touch IMO. Look at the example recently of NYC politicians thinking that buying a place in Brooklyn was $90k when it is $900k.
You are likely a Gen X so you have had to bridge the gap between technophobes and technology addicts. You've also seen the divide between right and left wings grow greater. As a parent how to you convey that these patterns are cyclical? That in the 80s things looked bleak as well and we rebounded? Who is your hero and who is your villain in those instances? Keeping it covid related, why do we not have 100% agreement that the disease is the villain? Why do we let kooks twist the villain into being scientists, public figures, or restrictions of freedom? That just confuses people and builds on their culture war.
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
sideline - I don’t disagree that’s there’s a way to make it work. There’s almost always a way. But compared to when I bought my first house 10 years ago, the same house (save a few Reno’s) is literally worth double here....almost to the dollar.
So for my friend who’s 8 years younger trying to buy her first house.... with a similar job and wage I had at the time, that is rough, straight up. Can you get creative - borrow from the folks, rent out rooms, press yourself? Yes. But you’re still faced with a $600k house vs $300k house on the same income. Same house. There’s only so many ways you can slice that - the numbers are pretty big these days. That’s not to say give up, but it’s worth noting at minimum.
Could the bubble burst? Is there a bubble? Anyone I know who’s tried to wait it out is still waiting 10 years plus and only got further behind. Getting further behind every day. My outlook with the amount of wealth trapped in the boomers doesn’t support a housing market crash soon, because they hold the vast majority of assets with very little exposure, because they bought in so cheap. A substantial interest rate hike would disproportionately affect people with less wealth, large mortgages and loans...and further shift the wealth toward the old buggers. Of course, a substantial rate hike would basically end life as we know it...and we would be back to fighting each other with pointy sticks, so it might not matter lol. I agree that SOMETHING will change SOMETIME....just not sure what or when.
Your point on being an electrician vs an arts degree...its not necessarily bad advice for your kids or my kids. But SOMEONE’S kids need to teach history class, or run the museum, create/sell art, or any number of other jobs unless society phases out a TON of stuff. So it’s not quite that simple for everyone.
So for my friend who’s 8 years younger trying to buy her first house.... with a similar job and wage I had at the time, that is rough, straight up. Can you get creative - borrow from the folks, rent out rooms, press yourself? Yes. But you’re still faced with a $600k house vs $300k house on the same income. Same house. There’s only so many ways you can slice that - the numbers are pretty big these days. That’s not to say give up, but it’s worth noting at minimum.
Could the bubble burst? Is there a bubble? Anyone I know who’s tried to wait it out is still waiting 10 years plus and only got further behind. Getting further behind every day. My outlook with the amount of wealth trapped in the boomers doesn’t support a housing market crash soon, because they hold the vast majority of assets with very little exposure, because they bought in so cheap. A substantial interest rate hike would disproportionately affect people with less wealth, large mortgages and loans...and further shift the wealth toward the old buggers. Of course, a substantial rate hike would basically end life as we know it...and we would be back to fighting each other with pointy sticks, so it might not matter lol. I agree that SOMETHING will change SOMETIME....just not sure what or when.
Your point on being an electrician vs an arts degree...its not necessarily bad advice for your kids or my kids. But SOMEONE’S kids need to teach history class, or run the museum, create/sell art, or any number of other jobs unless society phases out a TON of stuff. So it’s not quite that simple for everyone.
Seriously! How old were these boomers when they had kids? I'm at the tail end of the "boomer" era and I don't want my kids and grand kids living with me so they can buy a house!
By the way, I blame the gen X's 
Just my two cents, but when I say I think the economy is in trouble it is based on other things than who is or isn't working. What I have been seeing that has gotten much worse since the pandemic is people setting themselves up for a later disaster. I have seen and have talked about this with other people that have more expertise about the debt load people are willing to risk. People coming in trying to buy boats, campers and powersports, cars and trucks that are making good wages for our area, that struggle to come up with the minimum cash needed for a down payment because they are stretched so thin already. But if a bank will make the loan, they sign on for another 5-8-10 years of payments. Now with the stimulus checks they are coming up with the down payment and think life is good. If the numbers didn't work before, what about when the stimulus is gone? Where will the payment and insurance and maintenance costs come from? It seems so many people are doing this it can't continue forever. The same situation is in home buying, and we all saw what happened the last time banks were to willing to make loans they shouldn't. If the job market stumbles or does a down turn for any extended time, a lot of these people will be well on their way to trouble, not to mention the lenders. We have all heard how everything is selling so well and dealers are running out of inventory, but the majority of that stuff was bought on borrowed money. The stimulus money that was intended to save people might have been what puts them over the edge.
There is validity to your theory. The thing is that the rate of increased debt hasn't steepened since 2012. It keeps going up yes but the trend is steady. With something as small as a few thousand dollars from the stimulus checks going only to a portion of folks will it break the trend? Will other factors change the trend? All speculation. I see everyone buying toys and RVs as well and wonder something similar but I doubt it will crash the economy and put a dent in the inflation. The numbers just aren't there.
Your theory that mortgage borrowing could go back to pre 2008 risks aren't shared by many professionals. If you haven't gotten a home loan in recent years you might not know the scrutiny is massive compared to those days. The rules changed big time. Interest rates may be low but lenders aren't giving out home loans without even a valid ID like they did back then.
Agreed if downturn hits it could get ugly. What would cause it though? There are more jobs then there are unemployed people.
Your theory that mortgage borrowing could go back to pre 2008 risks aren't shared by many professionals. If you haven't gotten a home loan in recent years you might not know the scrutiny is massive compared to those days. The rules changed big time. Interest rates may be low but lenders aren't giving out home loans without even a valid ID like they did back then.
Agreed if downturn hits it could get ugly. What would cause it though? There are more jobs then there are unemployed people.
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This is where we get concerned about job loss in the oil and gas industry. People earning big money and spending it just as fast as they earn it. Most carry huge debt. In states like mine with only 2 real industries {energy and agriculture} a down turn, even regional spells real trouble. Ag sucks with the drought and when farmers and ranchers and oil people don't spend, the rest of us feel it quickly. Trickle down is everything here.There is validity to your theory. The thing is that the rate of increased debt hasn't steepened since 2012. It keeps going up yes but the trend is steady. With something as small as a few thousand dollars from the stimulus checks going only to a portion of folks will it break the trend? Will other factors change the trend? All speculation. I see everyone buying toys and RVs as well and wonder something similar but I doubt it will crash the economy and put a dent in the inflation. The numbers just aren't there.
Your theory that mortgage borrowing could go back to pre 2008 risks aren't shared by many professionals. If you haven't gotten a home loan in recent years you might not know the scrutiny is massive compared to those days. The rules changed big time. Interest rates may be low but lenders aren't giving out home loans without even a valid ID like they did back then.
Agreed if downturn hits it could get ugly. What would cause it though? There are more jobs then there are unemployed people.
