Clutching expectations

[Snowbird11]

please help me adjust my expectations for my 2017 163 pro w/ less than 300 miles on it. the dealer says i'm clutched for 10k, which is where i ride. they have 10-60's and stock spring in the primary with nothing changed in the secondary. i'm seeing 8000 rpms at 10k and 8200 rpms at 8k. i'd like to pull at least 8200 at 10 k since it seems this engine can do it. is that realistic?

i'm considering trying an slp blue/pink first and possibly dropping 2 grams to a 10-58. beyond that i need to look at putting my tied clutch on and messing with helixes, which gets expensive quick.

any ideas?

thanks in advance

 

[sumtinwong]

the sled pules best at 8200-8350 I would lighten up that 2 grams! I ride 2000-6000ft but I'm sure someone at 10000ft will give you better advice on options

 

[Jreng87]

Every sled is just a touch different out of the box. 2 sleds right from the crate set up but the same person can have slight variances in performance, so it's tough for a OEM to come out with their "stock specs" and tuning... with that said, at 10k plus In Colorado I was running the 58g weights and was very happy while others ran the "spec sheet" 60s and were very happy as well.
If you want some 10-58s shoot me a message I have a set I can part with.

 

[sledsnowco]

Before you change weights I would put the blue pink in the primary and black purple in the secondary. If you are not pulling 8300-8400 after that drop to 58 weights. I ride from 10-13,000 ft and this setup worked great. Also I recommend adding more intake air, at those elevations you are starving for air.

 

[Overthehood]

please help me adjust my expectations for my 2017 163 pro w/ less than 300 miles on it. the dealer says i'm clutched for 10k, which is where i ride. they have 10-60's and stock spring in the primary with nothing changed in the secondary. i'm seeing 8000 rpms at 10k and 8200 rpms at 8k. i'd like to pull at least 8200 at 10 k since it seems this engine can do it. is that realistic?

i'm considering trying an slp blue/pink first and possibly dropping 2 grams to a 10-58. beyond that i need to look at putting my tied clutch on and messing with helixes, which gets expensive quick.

any ideas?

thanks in advance

Check the primary belt fit. Mine was way loose from the dealer. Seems like some run stronger than others but to me this motor really rips at 8400 rpm.

 

[justinkredible56]

Are those of you that are suggesting running higher rpm (83-8400) using an aftermarket pipe or all stock?

I know the aftermarket pipes are supposed to run better at the higher rpm that's been suggested but I thought stock target was 8100?

Just wondering if I'm missing out with my current setup!

 

[sumtinwong]

I'm stock and me imfo. came from many different threads on SW. all agree 8200-8350 is the spot. mine was their from the start so I never played with it

 

[Overthehood]

I'm stock and me imfo. came from many different threads on SW. all agree 8200-8350 is the spot. mine was their from the start so I never played with it

Yes I agree stock you should shoot for 8300. I saw SLP blue pink and thought you were piped. This motor gets peak HP at high rpm and at 8000 to 8100 you are leaving some on the table.

 

[richracer1]

If it were me, I'd try the Venom Products (formerly Team) bright yellow primary spring before changing weights. I believe stock is a 120/330, the bright yellow is a 120/340. A spring is around $25 were as weights are going to run closer to $100.

I do not like the SLP primary springs, they are longer and tend to coil bind, where as the Venom springs are the same length as stock and be easily changed even on the mountain without having to use a press.

Also check your throttle cable for proper adjustment. If it's too loose, your not getting full throttle. It can also cause bad things. A guy asked to tag along with us Saturday and after doing a climb, his sled just died. He pulled and pulled but nothing. Checked the plugs for spark, nothing. I noticed there was about a 1/4-3/8" of an inch gap from the throttle block to the flipper. He tightened it up, got the plugs back in and bam the sled started on the first pull.

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

Provided your running stock you want to target 8050 to 8100 RPM's. If you run 8,200 to 8,300 try a long steep ski to ski pull with another sled, my money is on the lower RPM machine. We've run hundreds of ski to ski pulls at varying RPM's over the last 3 months, 8,300 has got walked on every time. It feels good and sounds good but puts less horsepower to the track. At 10,000' in the spring you will probably have to run 10-58's, these sleds turn into rich slobbering pigs above 9,000' in high temp springtime air. You may be lucky to get 8,000 RPM's at 10,000 even with 10-58's, they appear to be so rich there is a point where going lighter will not spin the motor any faster and you have to settle for what it will give you.

 

[Snowbird11]

i am running stock plus a can without pipe. i may throw on a spare clutch with a 155 belt and see how she runs with the slp blue pink, since i already have it here. if i need to break into the secondary i'm considering going back with a tied clutch. my old helix is a 71 55-57 46er but i'm not even sure where to begin with this new setup.

 

[Snowbird11]

Every sled is just a touch different out of the box. 2 sleds right from the crate set up but the same person can have slight variances in performance, so it's tough for a OEM to come out with their "stock specs" and tuning... with that said, at 10k plus In Colorado I was running the 58g weights and was very happy while others ran the "spec sheet" 60s and were very happy as well.
If you want some 10-58s shoot me a message I have a set I can part with.

i appreciate the offer. i remembered testing a set for my old dragon and went looking for them in my parts drawer. i lucked out and located them in right where i left them years ago.

so for now, i'll try the spring, then the weights and lastly secondary work. i just need to get a little winter back before spring takes over again.

thanks again for all the group help

 

[Red Mtn]

Good Luck. My '16 with a new motor that only has a few hundred miles on it, is already running 58g weights and still wont pull over 7700. I would be willing to bet that the compression is already crap on mine. Pulled great when it was new. I switched to the lighter wieghts last spring to try and bring the original rpms back. Four rides in this fall and the motor blew. New motor has never run right even after a full clutch rebuild and lighter than recommended weights. Near as I can tell, the HO motor may be worse than the early Pro's...

 

[xmk1080]

i am running stock plus a can without pipe. i may throw on a spare clutch with a 155 belt and see how she runs with the slp blue pink, since i already have it here. if i need to break into the secondary i'm considering going back with a tied clutch. my old helix is a 71 55-57 46er but i'm not even sure where to begin with this new setup.

Venom products did a bunch of test with the tied and they came up with 64/60.33 at island park, they were pulling 8100 and they said anything above that with stock pipe was loosing track speed. The other cut was a 62/58.33 was the other cut for higher altitude, around 10,000 ft. I was also told that anything they tested with more than a 4 degree load made to much belt heat. The .46 shift of the 71 degree to 55 degree of a 1.1 shift ratio is just to much of a initial load. I have done a lot of testing with the tied but not the 64/60.33 or 62/58.33 yet, I also run a pipe so I may have them cut me a 60/56.33 and 58/54.33 for higher altitude and still have an amazing back shift at slower speeds. I would actually like to try a 8 degree progressive angle to a straight, like a 62/56.33 or something close to that. I was running 8400 on the hill at 10,000 with a pipe mod then I loaded the secondary and primary some more and I'm still pulling 8250 to 8350 and I picked up track speed, they like a hot pipe! The blue/pink primary spring works very well along with the black/purple secondary spring, they hold rpm's better!

 

[xmk1080]

Good Luck. My '16 with a new motor that only has a few hundred miles on it, is already running 58g weights and still wont pull over 7700. I would be willing to bet that the compression is already crap on mine. Pulled great when it was new. I switched to the lighter wieghts last spring to try and bring the original rpms back. Four rides in this fall and the motor blew. New motor has never run right even after a full clutch rebuild and lighter than recommended weights. Near as I can tell, the HO motor may be worse than the early Pro's...

That really sucks but you absolutely have something else going on!

 

[TRS]

Good Luck. My '16 with a new motor that only has a few hundred miles on it, is already running 58g weights and still wont pull over 7700. I would be willing to bet that the compression is already crap on mine. Pulled great when it was new. I switched to the lighter wieghts last spring to try and bring the original rpms back. Four rides in this fall and the motor blew. New motor has never run right even after a full clutch rebuild and lighter than recommended weights. Near as I can tell, the HO motor may be worse than the early Pro's...

Have your dealer check the voltage to your injectors. Should be 15.5-16 volts. Pin 26 and 21 on the 26 pin ECU connector. For some reason the low voltage code is not recording. Your symptoms are definitely pointing towards this issue. This has become a common problem with the AXYS.
If anyone has an AXYS that will not start or has trouble starting hook a battery up and see if it starts. If she fires I'll bet it's low voltage to the injector or injectors.
The orange wires from the stator are dedicated to the injectors.

 

[Murph]

Have your dealer check the voltage to your injectors. Should be 15.5-16 volts. Pin 26 and 21 on the 26 pin ECU connector. For some reason the low voltage code is not recording. Your symptoms are definitely pointing towards this issue. This has become a common problem with the AXYS.
If anyone has an AXYS that will not start or has trouble starting hook a battery up and see if it starts. If she fires I'll bet it's low voltage to the injector or injectors.
The orange wires from the stator are dedicated to the injectors.

I wonder if it's a problem with the crossover diode? Crossover diode allows engine DC circuit to syphon power off the Chassis DC circuit when required-- i.e. higher rpm with increased ignition and injector events.

Low voltage code might not be recording because threshold is set to 12V nominal (14.4V) vs 14VDC (15.5-16V).

 

[TRS]

I wonder if it's a problem with the crossover diode? Crossover diode allows engine DC circuit to syphon power off the Chassis DC circuit when required-- i.e. higher rpm with increased ignition and injector events.

Low voltage code might not be recording because threshold is set to 12V nominal (14.4V) vs 14VDC (15.5-16V).

That is surely possible Murph. What we are seeing, back probing, is 4-9v at the injector.

 

[Murph]

Tony,

Some questions:

When backprobing voltage at injectors, are you seeing the 4-9 volts at idle all the way to higher rpm or is it dropping off as the rpm increase?

When you are connecting up a battery, which circuits are you powering ECM, DC Chassis, Guage or all three?

When you are powering with a battery, what are you seeing for voltage at the injector-- since the battery voltage is probably around 13-13.5 volts?



I wonder if its another draw that is pulling down voltage to the injectors--i.e. a fuel pump going going bad and pulling more amps. Easy test would be to disconnect fuel pump lead and power pump directly from battery and see how injector voltage reacts.

Have you tested all five capacitors?

 

[adamg]

Is battery direct on fuel pump safe? I've heard a guy claim he blew a pump doing that.