Change in Riding Habits Anyone?

[Jeff C]

Dude don't cancel your trip out there... there are MORE than plenty of areas around Togwotee that involve zero avalanche danger. While there are areas for the most part there is very limited danger for the average rider in Togwotee.

Best of riding
Shawn

I have been going riding out west since 1989. Didn't know too much about avalance dangers then. Then again, back then there were no true mountain sleds, and you could not get off trail too far in any sort of powder conditions.

Then came the mountain sleds, and suddenly you could go higher up slopes and get into areas never imagined just a few years earlier.

Saw some avalanches, but didn't think much of it.........

Mid 90's, started to hear more and more about avalanches taking lives. Still was in the "It wont happen to me stage"

Then had a few kids........

Late 90's, started to hear about dozens of deaths per year......

Got avalanche training and all the correct gear (Probes, beacons, shovels) felt pretty bullet proof with all this safety gear.

Early 2000's, it seemed to ramp up to the point at where it is now.

Then it dawned on me that none of this gear prevents avalanches.


Then I came to the realization that I was being pretty selfish by taking these risks. With two small kids and a wife, I could not only think of myself, but they had to be at the forefront of my thoughts when taking risks.

So for the last several years, our group STILL heads out to the mountains, but we boondock and explore instead of highmarking. Now, after having given it some thought we have more fun now laughing our butts off after someone drops into a hole, or gets too close to a tree etc.

We get up later; might get out at 10:30-11am and ride until 3 or so and call it a day.......

I am finding that our annual trip is more and more about those people who are out there with me, and less and less about taking unnecesary risks.

I just have seen too many people die trying to get up the mountain the highest to keep doing it. That is the theme of everybody in our group.

I suppose age and perspective has alot to do with it as well.




As you drive to your next riding destination, please take a minute and think about all the people in your life that love and care for you. Those thoughts just might keep you from highmarking that 33 degree windloaded slope that does not have a single track on it.........

 

[phatty]

Change riding habits? No. Change riding areas? yes. Until this settles down im not going to ride in certain areas... they a death trap waiting to happen.

Also who here really knows how to preform CPR, cause 99% of the time you dig someone out your going to have to preform CPR...

 

[Jeff C]

Change riding habits? No. Change riding areas? yes. Until this settles down im not going to ride in certain areas... they a death trap waiting to happen.

Also who here really knows how to preform CPR, cause 99% of the time you dig someone out your going to have to preform CPR...

Phatty:

That is a great point, what good is being able to locate someone quickly, only to find out that you lost the person from not knowing how to do CPR.

I went through CPR training back 15 years ago, but I sure could use a refresher course.

Thanks for bringing it up!

 

[jim]

Knowing CPR is a great point...and knowing how to get them out quickly is a huge factor. I was curious on the survival rate of those who receive CPR and found this:

Why Should I Learn CPR?
Because you can make a difference! Cardiac arrest may be caused by a variety of diseases, illnesses, and injuries. Statistics show that 61% of those individuals who suffer cardiac arrest are revived if CPR is begun within the first minute following arrest. If you are present at the scene of a heart attack, accident, or drowning and know CPR, you can save a life.

Fact of the matter is that the first 10 minutes are critical...it's really a compounded situation: 1) You must not get buried yourself...stay out of the slide zones during your buddies climbs. 2) If your buddy gets buried, you have about 12-15 minutes until their heart stops (so I was told by search and rescue after an incident I was at). 3) You must know how to revive them if you do get them pulled up (this means mouth to mouth and/or CPR).

And, as stated, the best course of action is to stay away from big slopes beyond 30 degrees when avy danger is prominent.

 

[KFD070]

I have been going riding out west since 1989. Didn't know too much about avalance dangers then. Then again, back then there were no true mountain sleds, and you could not get off trail too far in any sort of powder conditions.

Then came the mountain sleds, and suddenly you could go higher up slopes and get into areas never imagined just a few years earlier.

Saw some avalanches, but didn't think much of it.........

Mid 90's, started to hear more and more about avalanches taking lives. Still was in the "It wont happen to me stage"

Then had a few kids........

Late 90's, started to hear about dozens of deaths per year......

Got avalanche training and all the correct gear (Probes, beacons, shovels) felt pretty bullet proof with all this safety gear.

Early 2000's, it seemed to ramp up to the point at where it is now.

Then it dawned on me that none of this gear prevents avalanches.


Then I came to the realization that I was being pretty selfish by taking these risks. With two small kids and a wife, I could not only think of myself, but they had to be at the forefront of my thoughts when taking risks.

So for the last several years, our group STILL heads out to the mountains, but we boondock and explore instead of highmarking. Now, after having given it some thought we have more fun now laughing our butts off after someone drops into a hole, or gets too close to a tree etc.

We get up later; might get out at 10:30-11am and ride until 3 or so and call it a day.......

I am finding that our annual trip is more and more about those people who are out there with me, and less and less about taking unnecesary risks.

I just have seen too many people die trying to get up the mountain the highest to keep doing it. That is the theme of everybody in our group.

I suppose age and perspective has alot to do with it as well.




As you drive to your next riding destination, please take a minute and think about all the people in your life that love and care for you. Those thoughts just might keep you from highmarking that 33 degree windloaded slope that does not have a single track on it.........

Some great points Jeff......pretty much my sentiments exactly!

As for the above mentioned CPR. Definitely good to know how to do it but....I've done CPR probably over 50 times in my career. It's nothing like what you see on TV. The victim doesn't just all of a sudden get a pulse back, open their eyes then sit up and thank you. Of the few victims that we've manged to get pulses back on, never has one re-gained conciousness prior to arriving at the hospital. This with all the available drugs, high flow oxygen, suction, quick transport to hospital and the help of a defibrillator.
If you have to do CPR on someone who you just dug out of an avalanche and is is suffering from oxygen deprivation, in the back country, in the middle of Winter, I'm sorry but that person has very little chance of survival. Once you do start CPR there better be more than one of you to perform it while someone goes for help. Do CPR for 15 minutes and you are soaked in sweat! It's harder and way more tiring than it looks. Add the anxiety of looking into the eyes of your dead Buddy while you try to revive him.

Stay away from the slopes......play in the meadows for now.

 

[Boondock]

Last year around this time quite a few people were getting killed by avalanches I rethought some of my riding habits and one of the reasons I sold my Yammie Turbo. I do a lot more jumping and less hill climbing. This year seems to be starting even worse with the crazy wind around the country.

Hope the snow pack stabilizes but I doubt it will be to stable until the spring.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

I have been going riding out west since 1989. Didn't know too much about avalance dangers then. Then again, back then there were no true mountain sleds, and you could not get off trail too far in any sort of powder conditions.

Then came the mountain sleds, and suddenly you could go higher up slopes and get into areas never imagined just a few years earlier.

Saw some avalanches, but didn't think much of it.........

Mid 90's, started to hear more and more about avalanches taking lives. Still was in the "It wont happen to me stage"

Then had a few kids........

Late 90's, started to hear about dozens of deaths per year......

Got avalanche training and all the correct gear (Probes, beacons, shovels) felt pretty bullet proof with all this safety gear.

Early 2000's, it seemed to ramp up to the point at where it is now.

Then it dawned on me that none of this gear prevents avalanches.


Then I came to the realization that I was being pretty selfish by taking these risks. With two small kids and a wife, I could not only think of myself, but they had to be at the forefront of my thoughts when taking risks.

So for the last several years, our group STILL heads out to the mountains, but we boondock and explore instead of highmarking. Now, after having given it some thought we have more fun now laughing our butts off after someone drops into a hole, or gets too close to a tree etc.

We get up later; might get out at 10:30-11am and ride until 3 or so and call it a day.......

I am finding that our annual trip is more and more about those people who are out there with me, and less and less about taking unnecesary risks.

I just have seen too many people die trying to get up the mountain the highest to keep doing it. That is the theme of everybody in our group.

I suppose age and perspective has alot to do with it as well




As you drive to your next riding destination, please take a minute and think about all the people in your life that love and care for you. Those thoughts just might keep you from highmarking that 33 degree windloaded slope that does not have a single track on it.........

right on

 

[Zachcreek]

Not knocking the avy classes, do they teach that in the event of an avy to wait for little bit before rushing in? Just curious cause it's my understanding thats what happened in Fernie,,, all intentions were good and thats when the rest of them were buried.

Assesment of potential hazards from above. Hangfire, other flanks, 2nd weak layer. Lookouts above, out of the slide path.

But in the adrenaline zone and with only 15 minutes, this take alot of time and your only thought is to save your friends.

Rescue groups do these assesments before sending in personel. But when its you friend or see it, what action would you take. Risk your life to save another? Would'nt think twice if it were my ridin buddy. Those guys that went in there are the best kind of friends you can have. And they made the right decision to leave. Hearts go out to them also, they did the right thing when they left.

 

[Pastor]

I have not made a decent climb this year because of the avalanche danger.

I have still had a lot of fun though!!

Lots of powder out there!!

 

[Wyoming T/A]

our riding group dug a guy out from ND and gave him cpr to save his life---i changed that day and we now ride with my grandson and we dont hit the big stuff at all and i think we have more fun and put on more miles in a day because your not sittin at the bottom and watching everyone pound the same hill for a hour-----our group shrank but we still put more miles in less time and dont take the risks anymore---some think we dont have the nads anymore but i think we just ride smarter than some---

 

[KFD070]

our riding group dug a guy out from ND and gave him cpr to save his life---i changed that day and we now ride with my grandson and we dont hit the big stuff at all and i think we have more fun and put on more miles in a day because your not sittin at the bottom and watching everyone pound the same hill for a hour-----our group shrank but we still put more miles in less time and dont take the risks anymore---some think we dont have the nads anymore but i think we just ride smarter than some---

I'm positive that there is a direct correlation between smaller nads and a larger brain.

 

[Dbaker]

There is SOOO much snow out there i almost forget there's even hills to climb this time of year. however i keep the 162 around for the late season hard pack climbs and cornice drops! point is why risk it when the snow is not set up yet?

 

[snokaw]

I've spent most of the day thinking about the 8 in Fernie. I have two young sons (8 and 5) who spent most of the day yesterday learning to ride on trails a few hours away. Sitting here watching them play and it makes me sick to think of loosing one or both to something like this. Can't imagine what the families of these young men must be going through right now.

I guess I will never be able to keep them 100% safe but I will tech them to respect the conditions. Maybe starting them young will, and leading by example will help them. God bless. It is a sad day.

My 2 sons are grown now, but reading your post makes me think about when they were 8 & 5. You can never be there every hour of the day to protect them, but by taking the time to be with them and set an example that they are responsible for their actions and decisions. You already are leading by example. Now my sons tell me to come home safe.

Any of us who have this passion for the mountains and snow have to make decisions every time we are out. We are never 100% safe, it is the nature of the sport. I have taken avalanche 1 & 2 courses and am a Ski Patrol, wear a beacon and carry a shovel, but the mountain does not care. I still have to make the right decisions. Last week in Colorado we were in the trees on a low angle slope, we stopped for a break, the whole hillside collapsed with a loud whooph! It did not slide. If it would have been steep we would have been in a bad situation. We quickly spread out and crossed all open slopes one at a time. We watch while the other crosses to safety.

I am not going to stop going out, but reading avalanche accident reports and advisories and poking around in the snowpack when you get out (you can tell alot just by carrying a collapsible ski pole and sticking it into the snowpack), one will make better decisions (it is tough when you are surrounded by mountains of fresh snow). I hope I don't have to use my avy equipment when I am out. Sometimes the best action is to pull onto a safe place and enjoy the wind and snow pelting down on you and come back another day to slay the powder.

 

[Red Dog]

Thanks Jim, good post I totally agree.... Be Safe All. Cheers Red Dog.

 

[duke1n]

I've actually made great strides to improve my ability to get to the big hills and set off huge avi's. I threw on a couple cup holders to go with the 136 as well.

 

[H2SNOW]

former Advanced First Aid Instructor,CPR Instructor,CSPS Instructor, Past EMA II, iv difib....but would hate the thought of having to perform on my buddies ..but would do it to the best of my abilities ....ask your buddies if they have a pocket mask and airways in their backpack ....I do

 

[meierjn]

I saw on one of the forums a guy with a little saying stickered to the inside of his windshield. It read "Slow down daddy, mommy and your kids love you." I try to think of that every time I go out. I have never been to the mountains snowmobiling but would love to get there somday with my friends, my wife, and kids. A person can get into trouble in any situation due to lack of preperation or stupidity. Maybe I am just getting older but everyone has alot to live for...

 

[Ollie]

It boils down to one thing.
Be aware of your surrounding.
Find out what the conditions are in the area you are going.
If the avy danger is high, either stay away from that area of do everything you can to mitigate the situation.

We have an inherantly dangerous sport.
A lot more people are injured each year from non-avy related incendits than avyies.

Will I change my riding habits.
No.
Will I change where and when I ride.
No.
Am I aware of the dangers in the areas I ride.
Yes.

 

[triple]

Sure it's changed. I'm older, my body doesn't do the things it used to do even 3 years ago. In Triple's Love Meter, my wife and son and daughter rank at 100, my parents, brothers etc. rank at 99 and dying prematurely ranks at 1. I'll die of a heart attack anyways so why push it with something recreational like mountain riding. Being dead sucks. Not being able to ride again (riding of any kind) becasue you`re dead is even dumber.

In this day and age where we all have to be safe and wear helmets and seatbelts and the government feals obligated to "protect" us from ourselves, there will be a time in the very near future where riding will be banned and I will be an outlaw for riding a snowmobile.

 

[gitcheegumme]

i agree with you guys, it is just not worth it and i finally just realized that. for the last 5 years we have been going to the mountains from MN with virtually no avalanche gear and no knowledge of how to read snow conditions. the first year or two we didn't even realize the need for equipment or knowledge but the last couple years we have just tried to stay away from high risk steep areas since we like to boondock anyways.

now this year after getting married and expecting a baby next summer i cannot believe the risks we have been taking riding out west for the last 5 years! up until now i have only had to worry about myself, but now i need to provide and be there for my wife and child and with all the reports of avalanches and deaths i am considering backing out of our trip to togwotee in feb. for fear that we have been riding on borrowed time and our time will be up.

sorry for the rant but my mind has been whipping with these thoughts since i have new responsibilities in my life and doubting if i will ever want to ride in the west again for fear of something that is out of my control even with all the knowledge and tools i could have.

Farmboy, plenty of places to boondock on the UP of Michigan. Plenty of snow and No avy danger whatsoever. Looks like you are only 6 hours away from the Keweenaw.

I see you guys have 25+ on the ground in the arrowhead. Might not be the steep and deep but it takes some of the risk out. GL with the family, it sure changes your way of thinking doesn't it.