Change in Riding Habits Anyone?

[KFD070]

I gotta ask this question and it may Pi$$ some of you off but are any of you going to change your riding habits after all this carnage so early in the season?
It appears as though some people feel they are bulletproof. They load themselves up with all the latest and greatest gear, probes, beacons, shovels and then they head out, it seems with this false sense of security and throw themselves in harm's way. This happens year after year and we all act surprised when these preventable tragedies occurr. We all say, "that's so tragic" or "prayers to the families" but do we really let it sink in that it could be one of us tomorrow? Are any of you going to take measures to ensure that you're family isn't the next one that we're sending out condolences to?
Or, does this only happen to someone else because you're smarter than those guys killed yesterday?

 

[Vertical_Escape]

X2 ...... Couldn't agree more. All the high-tech gear made won't fix bad decisions.

Everyone just take a minute to think of those back at home before putting yourself in harms way.

 

[Beels]

I gotta ask this question and it may Pi$$ some of you off but are any of you going to change your riding habits after all this carnage so early in the season?
It appears as though some people feel they are bulletproof. They load themselves up with all the latest and greatest gear, probes, beacons, shovels and then they head out, it seems with this false sense of security and throw themselves in harm's way. This happens year after year and we all act surprised when these preventable tragedies occurr. We all say, "that's so tragic" or "prayers to the families" but do we really let it sink in that it could be one of us tomorrow? Are any of you going to take measures to ensure that you're family isn't the next one that we're sending out condolences to?
Or, does this only happen to someone else because you're smarter than those guys killed yesterday?

My thoughts exactly. It's just not worth it.

 

[cobbycat]

all the high tech gear won't do you any good if you don't know how to use it!! take an avalanche course and listen to yourself! the avy course teaches you far more than just snow conditions. live to ride another day!! don't do it for you, do it for your mother or father, wife/husband, girlfriend/boyfriend, or just think of your kids growing up with no parrents!! DON'T BE STUPID! DON'T RISK IT ALL FOR THE RUSH THAT YOU CAN GET NEXT RIDE!

 

[truckman]

In the middle of training right now to become part of S&R, have to say avy training has opened my eyes more. Would also say that my group in the last 4-5 years pays a lot more attention to conditions and snowpack and there are days that we decide that we all want to go home to the family so we don't ride or avoid avy terrain as much as possible. Bottom line, if its that bad out there, probably should stay at home and take care of the driveway and let the kids ride around the pastures. Always painful to see this kind of tradjedy in the news and think of the families left behind.

 

[KMMAC]

Not knocking the avy classes, do they teach that in the event of an avy to wait for little bit before rushing in? Just curious cause it's my understanding thats what happened in Fernie,,, all intentions were good and thats when the rest of them were buried.

 

[strwboss]

i gree also but i had conversation with a friend about the mountain snowmobiling videos and the disclaimer they have at the beginning. my thought was why dont they have a small segement on mountain riding and avalanche awareness? after all, their videos show the glory of racing to the top of the steepest hills....

 

[akstormin]

KMMAC, yes the avy classes do stress the safety aspect during a rescue situation. They emphasized that you need to assess the surrounding slopes for hangfire before rushing in. I believe my that my instructors words were 'you don't want to make an already bad situation worse by getting a bunch more people buried, and all of the rescuer's beacons will be in search when they get buried, making things even more difficult'. Which sounds like exactly what happened in Fernie this weekend.
All that being said I cannot imagine a more difficult situation than having several buddies buried and then being told to wait because its not safe to go help them. By waiting you are effectively signing their death certificate...
My thoughts and prayers to all the victims and their families. What an absolutely horrible set of events.

 

[farmboy84]

i agree with you guys, it is just not worth it and i finally just realized that. for the last 5 years we have been going to the mountains from MN with virtually no avalanche gear and no knowledge of how to read snow conditions. the first year or two we didn't even realize the need for equipment or knowledge but the last couple years we have just tried to stay away from high risk steep areas since we like to boondock anyways.

now this year after getting married and expecting a baby next summer i cannot believe the risks we have been taking riding out west for the last 5 years! up until now i have only had to worry about myself, but now i need to provide and be there for my wife and child and with all the reports of avalanches and deaths i am considering backing out of our trip to togwotee in feb. for fear that we have been riding on borrowed time and our time will be up.

sorry for the rant but my mind has been whipping with these thoughts since i have new responsibilities in my life and doubting if i will ever want to ride in the west again for fear of something that is out of my control even with all the knowledge and tools i could have.

 

[freejay]

KMMAC, yes the avy classes do stress the safety aspect during a rescue situation. They emphasized that you need to assess the surrounding slopes for hangfire before rushing in. I believe my that my instructors words were 'you don't want to make an already bad situation worse by getting a bunch more people buried, and all of the rescuer's beacons will be in search when they get buried, making things even more difficult'. Which sounds like exactly what happened in Fernie this weekend.
All that being said I cannot imagine a more difficult situation than having several buddies buried and then being told to wait because its not safe to go help them. By waiting you are effectively signing their death certificate...
My thoughts and prayers to all the victims and their families. What an absolutely horrible set of events.

X2
That would be a horrible decision to have to make

We did a mock rescue with multiple burials at the end of our avy course and it really opened our eyes to how different things are when you're under pressure. I would probably pay to just practice rescues for a full day once a year.

 

[H2SNOW]

Not knocking the avy classes, do they teach that in the event of an avy to wait for little bit before rushing in? Just curious cause it's my understanding thats what happened in Fernie,,, all intentions were good and thats when the rest of them were buried.

in the heat of the moment all lot of things go out the window ..for anyone out there that has experience in EMS or other training know exactly what Im talking about ..all the training in the world won't help you when you were just involved in a life altering scenerio , confused, possibly injured, adreniline on life preservation mode..etc etc

 

[XP Summit]

i agree with you guys, it is just not worth it and i finally just realized that. for the last 5 years we have been going to the mountains from MN with virtually no avalanche gear and no knowledge of how to read snow conditions. the first year or two we didn't even realize the need for equipment or knowledge but the last couple years we have just tried to stay away from high risk steep areas since we like to boondock anyways.

now this year after getting married and expecting a baby next summer i cannot believe the risks we have been taking riding out west for the last 5 years! up until now i have only had to worry about myself, but now i need to provide and be there for my wife and child and with all the reports of avalanches and deaths i am considering backing out of our trip to togwotee in feb. for fear that we have been riding on borrowed time and our time will be up.

sorry for the rant but my mind has been whipping with these thoughts since i have new responsibilities in my life and doubting if i will ever want to ride in the west again for fear of something that is out of my control even with all the knowledge and tools i could have.

Dude don't cancel your trip out there... there are MORE than plenty of areas around Togwotee that involve zero avalanche danger. While there are areas for the most part there is very limited danger for the average rider in Togwotee.

Best of riding
Shawn

 

[SylvanLaker]

my gang has been pretty much sticking to exploring and techical tree riding / boondocking. No hillclimbing..

 

[Vertical_Escape]

in the heat of the moment all lot of things go out the window ..for anyone out there that has experience in EMS or other training know exactly what Im talking about ..all the training in the world won't help you when you were just involved in a life altering scenerio , confused, possibly injured, adreniline on life preservation mode..etc etc

This is especially so if a victim is a family member or close friend. Though fully trained as a 1st responder, when my daughter and grandson flipped a 4-wheeler and I was 1st on scene ........ wow. Hope to never go thru that again.

Ride Smart, Ride Safe.

 

[H2SNOW]

my gang has been pretty much sticking to exploring and techical tree riding / boondocking. No hillclimbing..

dtto

 

[jim]

We always change our riding habits around the conditions...and that includes the time of the day. If we have fresh powder in the morning with a solid anchoring base, we'll ride it till about noon when things start to warm up and become less stable.

And, as it always the case this time of year, we stay off of anything steeper than 20 degrees unless the snowpack is extremely stable.

Thing is, the snow will always be unstable to a degree and will change from slope to slope and from the hour of the day...I think the best course of action is to play it conservative as best possible but our sport does involve some risk. You can have a steller stable snowpack but still have a layer let go that was 10 feet under and compromised by others playing on the same hill in avy type conditions...there is not guarantee.

I also change where I ride. Example: I was planning on riding Utah this year...but with the bad ice layer deep in the snow pack I'm taking that off the agenda. I'll stick to smaller hills in the McCall area until things really anchor down.

But, I'd never chastise anyone for being caught in an avy...that we are even out there is a risk...there are no guarantees for any of us. Some of the access points are flat out dangerous and just because we don't play on them doesn't mean we won't get caught in one some day. You kinda cross your fingers at times and try to do the right thing.

 

[KFD070]

I've been sledding for about 30 years now and I too can't believe some of the stupid things I did in my younger years. Family, career and health are all aspects that at one time or another creep into your brain and remind you about how happy or content you might be at this point in your life. In my mind there is no way in He!! that the risks are worth tempting. You can only get away with Stupidity for so long.

 

[Beels]

We always change our riding habits around the conditions...and that includes the time of the day. If we have fresh powder in the morning with a solid anchoring base, we'll ride it till about noon when things start to warm up and become less stable.

And, as it always the case this time of year, we stay off of anything steeper than 20 degrees unless the snowpack is extremely stable.

Thing is, the snow will always be unstable to a degree and will change from slope to slope and from the hour of the day...I think the best course of action is to play it conservative as best possible but our sport does involve some risk. You can have a steller stable snowpack but still have a layer let go that was 10 feet under and compromised by others playing on the same hill in avy type conditions...there is not guarantee.

I also change where I ride. Example: I was planning on riding Utah this year...but with the bad ice layer deep in the snow pack I'm taking that off the agenda. I'll stick to smaller hills in the McCall area until things really anchor down.

But, I'd never chastise anyone for being caught in an avy...that we are even out there is a risk...there are no guarantees for any of us. Some of the access points are flat out dangerous and just because we don't play on them doesn't mean we won't get caught in one some day. You kinda cross your fingers at times and try to do the right thing.

Great point Jim. We can remove some of the risk, but never all of it. There's going to be risk in every aspect of life, no matter what it is.

 

[R J]

I gotta ask this question and it may Pi$$ some of you off but are any of you going to change your riding habits after all this carnage so early in the season?
It appears as though some people feel they are bulletproof. They load themselves up with all the latest and greatest gear, probes, beacons, shovels and then they head out, it seems with this false sense of security and throw themselves in harm's way. This happens year after year and we all act surprised when these preventable tragedies occurr. We all say, "that's so tragic" or "prayers to the families" but do we really let it sink in that it could be one of us tomorrow? Are any of you going to take measures to ensure that you're family isn't the next one that we're sending out condolences to?
Or, does this only happen to someone else because you're smarter than those guys killed yesterday?

No it could happen to all of us. I trust my judgement and my groups judgement for the most part and we do know how to use our equipment. Do we knowlingly put ourselves in the midst of avy terrain, not really although as we all know it can happen in a lot of unspecting places.

 

[Barton]

I've spent most of the day thinking about the 8 in Fernie. I have two young sons (8 and 5) who spent most of the day yesterday learning to ride on trails a few hours away. Sitting here watching them play and it makes me sick to think of loosing one or both to something like this. Can't imagine what the families of these young men must be going through right now.

I guess I will never be able to keep them 100% safe but I will tech them to respect the conditions. Maybe starting them young will, and leading by example will help them. God bless. It is a sad day.