I think your right. One good thing is that it happened near home and not 50 km in the back country. I do think I will still put on a smaller sprocket with a new bearing to stretch the new chain for piece of mind.
Chain Tensioner idler gears PIC ADDED
- Thread starter M5-
- Start date
I think your right. One good thing is that it happened near home and not 50 km in the back country. I do think I will still put on a smaller sprocket with a new bearing to stretch the new chain for piece of mind.
Must have been a Friday when these chains where made up seems like one link to short .
I also had to run 1 tooth smaller sprocket in the front until the chain stretched which took a couple long rides until it would finally fit with some slack.
I did strip one idler in the process. I put it on my lathe and machined it smooth like a regular chain roller and its worked great ever since(still haven't put the new one on yet).
Buell runs these exact same idler when they do chain drive conversion on there street bikes and they seem to hold up just fine in that application, not sure if a steel idler would help solve anything or not. Would like to hear how it works out.
I did strip one idler in the process. I put it on my lathe and machined it smooth like a regular chain roller and its worked great ever since(still haven't put the new one on yet).
Buell runs these exact same idler when they do chain drive conversion on there street bikes and they seem to hold up just fine in that application, not sure if a steel idler would help solve anything or not. Would like to hear how it works out.
could go farmer style and use a piece of hardwood. 
B
backcountrysnowbikes
Well-known member
M5,
WHAT SPROCKET DID You buy ? I've broke 4 or 5 plastic sprocket timbersled said they don't have a problem. guess ill machine a steel one it total f's up your day alum. would be a great way to go
Travis
thanks Paul
WHAT SPROCKET DID You buy ? I've broke 4 or 5 plastic sprocket timbersled said they don't have a problem. guess ill machine a steel one it total f's up your day alum. would be a great way to go
Travis
thanks Paul
Travis
One ride on the new steel sprocket so far so good. I picked it up at a local farm supply/industrial place. the sprocket is for a 50 chain and is 15 teeth with a 17mm 6203 RS bearing. I looked at my bike a lot yesterday and everytime the idler was locked in ice. Maybe its the way the heat is disipated on the KTM and causes icing and freezing of the sprocket.
On a side note I contacted Timbersled and they were great about it and are replacing my sprocket. Great customer service but I'm not sure they believe there may be an issue. I guess time will tell if I just had something set wrong.
M5
One ride on the new steel sprocket so far so good. I picked it up at a local farm supply/industrial place. the sprocket is for a 50 chain and is 15 teeth with a 17mm 6203 RS bearing. I looked at my bike a lot yesterday and everytime the idler was locked in ice. Maybe its the way the heat is disipated on the KTM and causes icing and freezing of the sprocket.
On a side note I contacted Timbersled and they were great about it and are replacing my sprocket. Great customer service but I'm not sure they believe there may be an issue. I guess time will tell if I just had something set wrong.
M5
E
ENERGIZER
Member
Use spring or rubber loaded chain tensionioners.
Timbersled is by far the best kit on the market to date. Thanks Allen.
But they need to solve this very serious issue with a design that incorporates the following concepts.
* Stops damaging: Countershaft bearings and engine cases, idler sprokets, drive sprokets, chains, kit bearings.
* Uses spring or rubber loaded tensioners to limit the tightness of the chain to prevent above damage and eliminate the need to inspect and adjust the chain tension after every ride.
* The tensioner needs to be designed to accomodate at least the following: a) Chain tension increase due to snow contamination, b) one size larger / onesize smaller counershaft sproket, c)length of chain increase from new to worn out, d) adjustment of strut rod.
*Manual adjustment would be acceptable for counter shaft sproket change and adjustment of strut rod but not for snow contamination or normal chain wear.
Spring and rubber loaded chain tensioners have been used in motorcycles, snowmobiles, industrial and farm equipment for many decades.
Please everyone help by finding existing designs or your new ideas for spring or rubber loaded spring tensioners.
Using fiber idler sprockets rather than aluminum or steel seems like false economy from a cost or weight savings perspective.
Timbersled is by far the best kit on the market to date. Thanks Allen.
But they need to solve this very serious issue with a design that incorporates the following concepts.
* Stops damaging: Countershaft bearings and engine cases, idler sprokets, drive sprokets, chains, kit bearings.
* Uses spring or rubber loaded tensioners to limit the tightness of the chain to prevent above damage and eliminate the need to inspect and adjust the chain tension after every ride.
* The tensioner needs to be designed to accomodate at least the following: a) Chain tension increase due to snow contamination, b) one size larger / onesize smaller counershaft sproket, c)length of chain increase from new to worn out, d) adjustment of strut rod.
*Manual adjustment would be acceptable for counter shaft sproket change and adjustment of strut rod but not for snow contamination or normal chain wear.
Spring and rubber loaded chain tensioners have been used in motorcycles, snowmobiles, industrial and farm equipment for many decades.
Please everyone help by finding existing designs or your new ideas for spring or rubber loaded spring tensioners.
Using fiber idler sprockets rather than aluminum or steel seems like false economy from a cost or weight savings perspective.
Tight Chain-Brand
Which bikes have too tight a chain? Are all makes too tight? I've seen mainly KTMs.
Which bikes have too tight a chain? Are all makes too tight? I've seen mainly KTMs.
Chain slider
Contact cycle works in Edmonton they have a good solution use a piece of Teflon an make a slider block in place off sprocket same as some of the tensioners in the sled chain cases .they also have a real nice chain case guard
Contact cycle works in Edmonton they have a good solution use a piece of Teflon an make a slider block in place off sprocket same as some of the tensioners in the sled chain cases .they also have a real nice chain case guard
M5, since you clearly believe there is a problem with the design, can you at least set your chain tension on the loose side next time, and take an average measurement? What I mean is the shaft that the first timbersled sprocket is on isn't exactly the roundest bar in the world, and the sprocket is not concentric perfectly to the shaft anyway. So I've found that my chains have to be looser than you would expect in order to make sure the tightest they can be is acceptable tension. So support the track, roll it around and check it out.. You'll see that the chain does not stay at a uniform tension at all.
Thus, a spring loaded tensioner with a dampner on it like a timing belt tensioner from a car would be idea in my mind. Just a simple spring would bounce too much I think.
Jon
Thus, a spring loaded tensioner with a dampner on it like a timing belt tensioner from a car would be idea in my mind. Just a simple spring would bounce too much I think.
Jon
I feel that it is time for me to make some comments on this. Do know that we are looking at all threads and we see all that is going on and that we take everyone’s opinions seriously. When you call and talk to one of our guys at Timbersled you get an honest opinion based on our own experience on our own bike. We do put more miles on them than about any others out there so we normally are the first to make a part fail but we do get caught off guard some times because we do not own every bike that we make a Fit Kit for.
Idler Sprocket:
I personally have never had an idler sprocket break on any of our bikes in the past 4 years of riding. I think what might be happening is ice is building up and binding in the link, then taking out the sprocket. After reading this post I relate this to the fact that we thaw our bikes out after every ride and we lube our chains with chain wax. We recommend chain wax and not chain lube (grease). Lube comes off easier than wax and is more likely for the chain to run dry and have ice stick inside the links causing a problem like the broken idler sprocket.
The fiber idler sprocket is not defective or a poor design if maintained properly. I strongly recommend these things and for us the manufacturer we hear your complaints and we will work hard to come up with solutions to make it less tempermental.
Tight Chains:
4 years ago when we were developing the MH we tested different chains. The chain we ended up using worked well in our testing. When we produced the first year kits we experienced a lot of stretching, more so than we experienced when testing. The next year we retested different chains and ended up using the EK chain that is on the MH kits now. This new style chain was more swelled up from the internal grease than the original chains. This made the chain tighter on the bikes that already had a snug fit. Naturally it loosens up and this goes away after some miles. We have not seen a problem running them this way but there are some high mileage bikes that have. The pressure from the tight chain is not comparable to how much tension and pressure there is when climbing at full throttle.
Again we hear your feedback and we will continue to develop these kits with your thoughts and experiences incorporated into future development. Thank you everyone for buying our snow bike kits and making this sport possible. It has truly been a thrill to be involved with something so revolutionary.
Thanks Allen
Idler Sprocket:
I personally have never had an idler sprocket break on any of our bikes in the past 4 years of riding. I think what might be happening is ice is building up and binding in the link, then taking out the sprocket. After reading this post I relate this to the fact that we thaw our bikes out after every ride and we lube our chains with chain wax. We recommend chain wax and not chain lube (grease). Lube comes off easier than wax and is more likely for the chain to run dry and have ice stick inside the links causing a problem like the broken idler sprocket.
The fiber idler sprocket is not defective or a poor design if maintained properly. I strongly recommend these things and for us the manufacturer we hear your complaints and we will work hard to come up with solutions to make it less tempermental.
Tight Chains:
4 years ago when we were developing the MH we tested different chains. The chain we ended up using worked well in our testing. When we produced the first year kits we experienced a lot of stretching, more so than we experienced when testing. The next year we retested different chains and ended up using the EK chain that is on the MH kits now. This new style chain was more swelled up from the internal grease than the original chains. This made the chain tighter on the bikes that already had a snug fit. Naturally it loosens up and this goes away after some miles. We have not seen a problem running them this way but there are some high mileage bikes that have. The pressure from the tight chain is not comparable to how much tension and pressure there is when climbing at full throttle.
Again we hear your feedback and we will continue to develop these kits with your thoughts and experiences incorporated into future development. Thank you everyone for buying our snow bike kits and making this sport possible. It has truly been a thrill to be involved with something so revolutionary.
Thanks Allen
Last edited:
Allen
Thanks for the honest reply. I didn't start this thread in an attempt to slag the product and I apologize if it came across that way in the beginning, its quite the opposite I love this thing.
The last few rides I've been on have been in really deep snow with cold temps in particular the one that broke the gear so I've been basically running the crap out of my bike which results in the bike getting pretty warm and lots of water running down onto the sprocket off the motor. I've checked it the last 2 days and if I stop for 15 minutes or so the idler becomes encased in ice because it basically has a direct flow of water dripping on it and combining with the packed in snow. This is on a KTM 450. I'm not sure who or who hasn't read the whole thread but I'll state it again I've set the chain to Timbersleds spec and I spun the track etc etc so I know the tension right and I also use chain wax. I'm starting to think the answer might lie in the riding conditions as to why some guys have issues and some don't. IMO the idler gets damaged on take off after freezing up when it first needs to spin and is frozen in at least thats my take on it.
Thanks for the replacement gear and I'll install it and hopefully all will be good.
M5
Thanks for the honest reply. I didn't start this thread in an attempt to slag the product and I apologize if it came across that way in the beginning, its quite the opposite I love this thing.
The last few rides I've been on have been in really deep snow with cold temps in particular the one that broke the gear so I've been basically running the crap out of my bike which results in the bike getting pretty warm and lots of water running down onto the sprocket off the motor. I've checked it the last 2 days and if I stop for 15 minutes or so the idler becomes encased in ice because it basically has a direct flow of water dripping on it and combining with the packed in snow. This is on a KTM 450. I'm not sure who or who hasn't read the whole thread but I'll state it again I've set the chain to Timbersleds spec and I spun the track etc etc so I know the tension right and I also use chain wax. I'm starting to think the answer might lie in the riding conditions as to why some guys have issues and some don't. IMO the idler gets damaged on take off after freezing up when it first needs to spin and is frozen in at least thats my take on it.
Thanks for the replacement gear and I'll install it and hopefully all will be good.
M5
M5
m5 i think if you can see water dripping right onto the sprocket it would make sence to just make a small plastic cover over it to prevent this from happening. JMO
m5 i think if you can see water dripping right onto the sprocket it would make sence to just make a small plastic cover over it to prevent this from happening. JMO
wheels or blocks
when I build my snow bike I had in mind a chain tension adjustment idle wheel similar to the Mtn Horse, when I got to that part of construction I made two rubbing blocks not much different than dirt bike chain guide. So far, chain did brake in last year, thought the looser chain would be an issue, seems not to be. Abought at christmas I was going to put more tension on my blocks, but I've been riding in loose deep snow, so I left it loose, So far I haven't seen a downside to loose chain ?
when I build my snow bike I had in mind a chain tension adjustment idle wheel similar to the Mtn Horse, when I got to that part of construction I made two rubbing blocks not much different than dirt bike chain guide. So far, chain did brake in last year, thought the looser chain would be an issue, seems not to be. Abought at christmas I was going to put more tension on my blocks, but I've been riding in loose deep snow, so I left it loose, So far I haven't seen a downside to loose chain ?
T
thejean
Well-known member
Hey guys, I bought a used 2011 TS and just installed the kit today. To me, the chain feels really tight. I really had to use some force with the needle nose pliers to get the chain close enough to install the link. I wasn't alarmed because the instructions warn of this. However, that was also with the idler fully unextended. Now that it's installed, it does seem quite tight and doesn't seem like I need to extend the tensioner at all. I do have around 5/8" total play, but again that is with the tensioner completely in. I would have thought the tensioner should be extended a bit at least. This is on a KTM 300 XC-W. Anyone else experience this? Will it loosen up with a few kms? Should I be concerned? I am guessing the chain is already stretched as much as it will be since this is a used kit that was on a KTM 500 prior to. Thanks, JC
