Car and Driver maybe the end of the us auto industry

[mnescape]

4N cars are crap IMO. Never owned one and never will. When you actually dig into them and see how they are put together the american cars are a lot better.

Oh and as for the new tundra, They get the worst mpg out of all the 1/2 tons, handle and ride like chit and got the lowest pssible score in the crash test to be able to pass

Pull your head out and do a little research before you go spouting BS...

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=444

BTW, I get 20mpg on the highway and average 15mpg city/hwy. Let's see you get that with a 6.0L GM (with less HP and TQ I might add). The only one that is getting slightly better mileage (debatable) is the F150....and the power in the 5.4 is pathetic!!

Maybe you should drive one and see for yourself....assuming you can take the blinders off long enough!

 

[triple]

thats because we make crap, japs ARE the best cars on the road. ask any auto mechanic what he works on the most, he will say domestics.

How many 15 year old Hondas do you see on the road? If you do, it's full of rust and worth about 10 bucks.

 

[triple]

Every comparo test that car and driver does in recent memory they always pick a Honda or toyota no matter what the catagory is. no wonder nobody buys american any more.

I read Car and Driver every month. They are in love with BMW. They always win everything.

 

[luvtoride]

Pull your head out and do a little research before you go spouting BS...

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=444

BTW, I get 20mpg on the highway and average 15mpg city/hwy. Let's see you get that with a 6.0L GM (with less HP and TQ I might add). The only one that is getting slightly better mileage (debatable) is the F150....and the power in the 5.4 is pathetic!!

Maybe you should drive one and see for yourself....assuming you can take the blinders off long enough!

I'm not dissing any brand here...I just want to say, the 5.4 in the F-150 gets great mileage, and has all the power I need.

I've driven the tundra, I love it. It pulls hard! I haven't been in one long enough to have an educated opinion, but from what I saw, I liked.

I'll stick with my hand-me-down ford until the need arises for a more powerful engine, which I don't think will happen.

 

[Poorider900]

How many 15 year old Hondas do you see on the road? If you do, it's full of rust and worth about 10 bucks.

so that would be 1994.....i see tons of hondas from that era, and they are still worth 2000-3500 in most cases, sometimes even more than that. How much is a 94 cavalier worth? or how about a 94 escort? or a 94 neon? Case closed.

 

[94fordguy]

If People would just quit being brain washed by the CASH Biased Freeking media! Look into Ford Lincon Mercurys, they have surpassed the Toyota! Besides, If we support our own, they will have larger budgets and build better products. If GM has to cut every corner to survive and be the "LOW COST MANUFACTURER" WTF do you think is going to be the result?

Take a Second and educate yourself about how your car choice affects your friends neighbors and country! Don't snap to judgments read the FACTS!

http://jobspercar.com/

Thanks for the link, good to know...

Also, one way you can tell where your vehicle is made is by the first number in the VIN. For example, my truck VIN starts: 1FTJ......... Meaning it is made in America, 2 is Canada, and 3 is Mexico.

lol, i guess trying to tell the "american made loyal" that domestic is crap is hard to do when thier head is in the clouds. Someone owns a POS Tahoe that has 190k and they are bragging? thats just called luck! Nobody with an import brags about having 190k on thier cars. you guys need to stop believing what is written in mags and actually go talk to a few mechanics. If anyone would know what is best and worst it would be a mechanic. Im saying this and i am a chevy guy, but also love my toyotas.

interesting post, I do have a question for you tho...


You say that you do not brag about your foreign CAR having 190K miles on it, but also, how much differently do you drive a car than a large SUV or especially a truck? I know my truck has been down some ROUGH forest roads and pulled some very heavy loads in adverse conditions, how much load does a car pull on an average drive, itself and a couple people?

I don't mean to stir the pot too much here, I just want to show that when you take into consideration just how much abuse the American heavy duty trucks take in the same mileage as you car, they can not be expected to be in as good of condition as a commuter car is with that many miles, it is simply a different playing field and there is a lot to be said for a vehicle that tows a load that is essentially doubling or trippling its own curb weight...

Keep in mind what you can do with your car and what you can do with your 1/2 ton American truck, foreign 1/2 ton truck and then with your 1 ton American truck, they are made to withstand different use and abuse and cannot be compared to one another if they are used differently...



Happy Sledding

 

[Poorider900]

Thanks for the link, good to know...

Also, one way you can tell where your vehicle is made is by the first number in the VIN. For example, my truck VIN starts: 1FTJ......... Meaning it is made in America, 2 is Canada, and 3 is Mexico.




interesting post, I do have a question for you tho...


You say that you do not brag about your foreign CAR having 190K miles on it, but also, how much differently do you drive a car than a large SUV or especially a truck? I know my truck has been down some ROUGH forest roads and pulled some very heavy loads in adverse conditions, how much load does a car pull on an average drive, itself and a couple people?

I don't mean to stir the pot too much here, I just want to show that when you take into consideration just how much abuse the American heavy duty trucks take in the same mileage as you car, they can not be expected to be in as good of condition as a commuter car is with that many miles, it is simply a different playing field and there is a lot to be said for a vehicle that tows a load that is essentially doubling or trippling its own curb weight...

Keep in mind what you can do with your car and what you can do with your 1/2 ton American truck, foreign 1/2 ton truck and then with your 1 ton American truck, they are made to withstand different use and abuse and cannot be compared to one another if they are used differently...



Happy Sledding

good point. i will also add that the average SUV is bought for a status symbol and is used as a CAR, never seeing a trailer hitch or even dirt for that matter, but usually those people are "hung like a pimple" and need some compensation for what they lack between thier legs lol. my friend has a03 chev 1/2 ton that has never pulled anything or hauled anything, the inside of the bed looks new still, and even his was in and out of the shop untill the warantee expired. blue book on that truck is far under half what he paid for it.

 

[CuzzinOlaf]

Sorry, Buick was just picked as the most reliable and trouble free car made,

Thats because old grandparents drive them. When you don't go over 50mph and drive 3000 miles or less a year you're pretty much guaranteed to be reliable.

 

[priest lake rmk]

4N cars are crap IMO. Never owned one and never will. When you actually dig into them and see how they are put together the american cars are a lot better.

Oh and as for the new tundra, They get the worst mpg out of all the 1/2 tons, handle and ride like chit and got the lowest pssible score in the crash test to be able to pass

Don't you ride a Yamaha?

 

[Freak]

thats because we make crap, japs ARE the best cars on the road. ask any auto mechanic what he works on the most, he will say domestics.

and its not by accident. US automakers build parts to fail so they can sell parts and keep the service depts busy.

 

[luvtoride]

and its not by accident. US automakers build parts to fail so they can sell parts and keep the service depts busy.

I agree, and with the complexity of engines nowadays, there are few things you can do for an engine yourself.

Ever try to change the plugs on a newer F-150? Good luck.

 

[Beels]

thats because we make crap, japs ARE the best cars on the road. ask any auto mechanic what he works on the most, he will say domestics.

How can you even think of going by that when there's just that many more domestics on the road here? It's simple math.

 

[skid]

ya lets talk about paint.......remeber the GM and Dodge paint in the 90s and the giant recall fiasco? I worked as a grunt in a body shop when i was out of highschool. my main job besides sweeping the floor and washing cars was to peel the paint off of GMs and Dodges with a razor blade. the paint was soo bad it that it took zero effort to get the paint off those cars. I also remeber a few fords in for the same thing. We did at least 4-5 GM vehicles a week for the entire 2yrs i worked there, Dont remember how many mopiles and fords we did but it wasnt quite as many. As for the construction of auto i dont think they assembled with ease of disassembly in mind, they are put together to save lives pretty much. the cars that are genuinely easy to come appart are most likely the ones where people get killed in accidents. just .02

That did effect all brands back then, there just where not as many imports on the road.

 

[Weekday Warrior]

The domestics really disappointed me when gas prices shot up, there they were again, without any meaningful automobiles to offer.

BTW, I love my F350, but I'll never own a Ranger again.

Rangers still made by Mazda? used to be anyways

 

[U81I812]

Auto's

Help me understand something......

If the big three stuff is just as good as Toys and Honda's, why don't you people pay for them?????????

People who buy Toys and Honda's support them by paying near MSRP for their vehicles.

The Big 3 make $5000 less per vehicle than Toy/Hon. Half of that is operational cost, the other half is purchase price. $2500 per vehicle is huge, this all falls on the shoulders of the so called supporters.

To say you got $8000 of the cost of your truck and you support the big 3 in the same sentance is an absolute joke.

 

[AndrettiDog]

funny.... anybody actually know who makes the duramax?

last time I checked.... Isuzu wasn't an original North American name....

Isuzu helped develop the engine. GM sold their entire stock in Isuzu and produce the Duramax exclusively. GM builds all of these motors. This is no different than any domestic or foreign company. Ford works with Volvo, Mazda and others. VW works with several other German companies. Daimler and Mercades (old), GM and Toyota (old), GM and Holden,..........

You guys are funny. You will not convince a domestic guy to buy jap crap and you wont' convince a foreign guy to buy American. I think we should lock all of you in a room and see who is left at the end!

 

[revpilot]

Help me understand something......

If the big three stuff is just as good as Toys and Honda's, why don't you people pay for them?????????

People who buy Toys and Honda's support them by paying near MSRP for their vehicles.

The Big 3 make $5000 less per vehicle than Toy/Hon. Half of that is operational cost, the other half is purchase price. $2500 per vehicle is huge, this all falls on the shoulders of the so called supporters.

To say you got $8000 of the cost of your truck and you support the big 3 in the same sentance is an absolute joke.

I can explain that, the big 3 have mexicanized the buying process to the point where buying a car is a bartering deal like buying a bracelet in Cabo. $5 amigo, how about $1? "No freend, I buy mucho medicine for me seek bambino I sell for $4." I'll go $2. "OK, I sell for $2." The MSRP means nothing unless you're stupid enough to just pay it. The Toyotas MSRP actually mean something, they price them at cost + x% profit and that's real close to what you're gonna pay. BTW I drive GM, Chev, Dodge and Fords because most of what I do requires heavy pulling but the buying razzle-dazzle isn't fun to me.

 

[Gainster]

and its not by accident. US automakers build parts to fail so they can sell parts and keep the service depts busy.

I was going to stay out of this untill I read Freak's post, That statement is so true!!!!!! First off if you have a domestic vehicle with over a 100k on it you can thank a import mfgr for making the domestics try to match what the imports have done all along!

I worked in a GM dealership parts dept & had my service rep come in many times & tell me I had to put new part numbers in stock. When I asked why I was told because GM can save 1/2 a cent per part using the newer & cheaper part. Yes they know there will be part failures but the money they saved would far offset the warranty labor & part cost when you look @ the big picture so 3 years or 36,000 miles was all that was concidered.

Now I work at a independent auto repair shop & have customers that build parts for the auto mfrs, Up untill last year GM would co-enginer a part with these vendors, Working with a GM enginer the factory would come up with a part that was needed. Once the contract was landed & 50% of the production run was complete GM or Ford or Chrysler would come back in and say that we re-enginered the part & you could have saved us money by using thinner wire or thinner plastic or thinner rubber, So you now owe us $500,000.00 if you want to finish the contract. Never mind they helped build this part in the first place! Of the 2 parts vendors that I know this has happened to neither has had to go back & repayback or cheapen a part that was contracted by a import mfgr.

 

[Alberta Boy]

Every comparo test that car and driver does in recent memory they always pick a Honda or toyota no matter what the catagory is. no wonder nobody buys american any more.

WOW... that is your thought provoking insight into the demise of the american auto industry???? LMFAO

Time to wake up dude! lol

 

[Alberta Boy]

The sense of entitlement in the domestics will be their demise.From the CEO who thinks he deserves million dollar bonuses to the assembly worker who feels he needs $75 an hour to do his job.THAT is the problem.You can only pull so much profit out of a vehicle before the public decides it's not worth what you're charging and goes elsewhere.They did this to themselves.

Well said! Domestic vehicles should be about 20% cheaper than imports but they cost more to build... can someone explain to me how someone can justify making $75/ hour tightening lug nuts and then to top it off they get lifetime benefits after they retire???? The union screwed the american manufacturers big time!!! They should be getting paid $20-$30/ hour for that kind of work (and be happy about it too!!!)

The unions rode the cash cow a LONG time and now the ride is over... no pity here as they brought it on themselves!