Yes it works , i ran it last year at 18 - 24 lbs , you have to increase fuel rail pressure , stock 42 psi increase t0 56 psi , bigger injector would be nice .
Can't decide on turbo kit! Help!!
- Thread starter roughrider99
- Start date
Yes it works , i ran it last year at 18 - 24 lbs , you have to increase fuel rail pressure , stock 42 psi increase t0 56 psi , bigger injector would be nice .
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pylon
Well-known member
the RB3s are only working to around 14 pounds powderlights will tell you that when you call them . a few people last spring and early this winter played with the RB3 and high boost #s with no success to speak of . you may want to call attuide industries they just came out with a new box that is better than the current ones
The RB3 does work on the apex after 14lbs , there are guys running them at 22lbs , these maps were not made by powderlites , there is other poeple out there that know how to tune the RB3 .
Well I can speak from experience. the RB3 will work with more than 14 lbs of boost. Mitch from Synergy was running the RB3 in his Apex kit. I have installed and worked on a total of 5 Apex's with Synergy mid mount kits and they all have succesfully run around the 17-18lb mark. Mitch was using a different approach to the mapping, and it really seemed to worked. He was also using an aftermarket Fuel Regulator, similar to the one Alpine uses. Too bad he couldn't have kept going! If Alpine can run their kits on stock injectors, with an aftermarket regulator, than we know the stock injectors can handle the fuel supply. So this tells me that the learning curve of the RB3 is just starting. The Box is capable of a whole lot more, People just need time to learn how to make it work. I am sure that if you talked to the guys who started using the Dobek stlye box, the will tell you, that there was some testing and tuning and headaches, before they got it running the way they wanted. I think Dave is on the right path, just give him a little slack. i have a few customers with his Nytro kit and they seem to be quite happy.
I have worked on a few turbo's in my time and one thing that I have found to be true about them is this" Install is the most important." If you do not install the kit correctly, it will not run properly. I have repaired quite afew sleds and most of the time I find that something was not installed properly or something came loose. I have made install mistakes and had the sled not run right. After checking the unit over and correcting the mistake, the sled ran as I was told it should. Sometimes things dont work right and that is when you have to let the manufacturer know. 9 times out of 10 he will try his best to make it right for you.
I have installed most of the kits out there and they are all pretty good. they all have their good points and bad as well. The best way to put it, is that any kit is only as good as it is installed. This is not a bolt on and got sport.
Jeff
I have worked on a few turbo's in my time and one thing that I have found to be true about them is this" Install is the most important." If you do not install the kit correctly, it will not run properly. I have repaired quite afew sleds and most of the time I find that something was not installed properly or something came loose. I have made install mistakes and had the sled not run right. After checking the unit over and correcting the mistake, the sled ran as I was told it should. Sometimes things dont work right and that is when you have to let the manufacturer know. 9 times out of 10 he will try his best to make it right for you.
I have installed most of the kits out there and they are all pretty good. they all have their good points and bad as well. The best way to put it, is that any kit is only as good as it is installed. This is not a bolt on and got sport.
Jeff
R
Remmy
Well-known member
I don't know who's turbo kit is the best but I do appreciate Dave pushing the limits with our technology. The RB3 with the new closed loop tuning software is trick. (And the software isn't cheap!) It may not be working yet but the technology is leaps and bounds ahead of my Dobeck box. I just don't want to be a guniea pig as I've already dropped to much coin on this sled.
I believe they are 9.5-1 compression. I haven't talked to the motor builder so I'm not sure if they were a custom order or what. I do know that they are not "off the shelf". They are just a 9.5-1 (I'm not 100% sure on that comp because I know that most apex low comp pistons are 10-1, but that is what the previous owner of this sled conveyed to me) comp gas ported (I'm pretty sure you know what that means but for those of you that don't it's several ports cnc'd into the top of the piston and out the ring grove to provide a better seal for high performance and boosted motors to help with excess crankcase pressure from the intake charge seeping past the rings) 74mm pistons from JE. I believe they were listed a couple of years ago but I can't seem to find them on the website now. I'm sure a call to JE would put a set in your hands easily.
If you are still curious about them I should be able to get ahold of the previous owner and in turn the mech who blueprinted the engine.
about Powderlites from a customer
EZmoney I want to clarify a few things about Dave and his comments about MY Boondocker kit he worked on. When I brought my sled to him I wasn't happy with my Apex at all. I was using the Boondocker box that came with the kit. I saved the thread from the old forum with all the maps that guys were creating because BD didn't have a really good running map. I kept frigging around with the best of the different maps and nothing worked as well as it should of. My Pure Logic box had crapped out after 20 miles ( yeah it was sealed with silicon and dielectric grease at the connection)!!! I wanted the best running box for my sled and I didn't want to frig with correcting a fuel map on the hill. My riding time is precious to me. RB3 is the by far the best box I have run with my Boondocker kit. Dave set me up with a double down pipe and he ran Tuning Bike with my RB3 allowing tuning bike to build the correct map for my Apex. Dave then modified the map to make the sled run at the best A/f ratio throughout the entire RPM and Boost range. My sled is running to 18 lbs of boost and there is still room for a lot more based on the fuel its using. Daves products and his tuning ability made my sled flat out RIP. NO lag, no burbles, it runs Clean and Crisp.
I can throttle on and off at any boost level without a hiccup! It's now a Boondockin' Apex! The difference between the best running BD map by Snowesters and best Boondocker/Pure Logic dealer setup cannot compare to the RB3 map and double down pipe.
The log header is the least efficient header out there. It's the bottleneck in the Boondocker. It builds too much heat, and is restrictive which can lead to DETO. I've added a water meth setup as insurance. The stacks in my BD intercooler aren't anywhere near the efficiency/flow of the PowderLites. I thought I can add as much boost to compensate for this but its lost Hp as compared to an EFFICIENT flowing turbo setup (boost vs boost). Darren also spotted a 2" seam where my intercooler wasn't welded. Oh well easily missed easily fixed.
I was told by the dealer that reverse wasn't available and relayed that to Dave but I guess with a bellcrank and the parkbrake cable I did a search and see it's doable.
Thanks again to Darren and Dave at PowderLites for the Great service! Dave is a TUNER and they do terrific work. I've had a close look at their kits and even drank a little Koolaid
Pylon I don't know who you are but I am sure I am the first Boondocker turbo Dave has used the Tuning Bike on. I wonder where you got your story from? I'm certain it"s not me. I do know what I am doing tuning the Boondocker box. The map Dave created is now available on TY right after it was built for my sled. I am good for 18 lbs of boost plus there's room for more based on fuel used!
Roughrider99 you can PM me for a LOT more of the details. Trust me my experience with the Boondocker hasn't been fun... very costly yes but not fun... guaranteed my next turbo will be a PowderLites with a RB3.
LMAO!!! A few strikes against them...
"No stacks in the intercooler" That intercooler is good to 20 psi and gets a cool charge , ya your right not efficient over that, but failed to mention that eh bud,But whats your kit mapped for any way nd how much boost you run with your kit?The header is pretty dam bullet proof and never really hear of them failing,sounds good to me. The fuel controller is about the only thing i will agree with ya on but there is a new box thats out and i have never tried so i dont have first hand info for ya there,so ill leave that one alone until i do.But a Pl box is a good price and tune easy on the hill, No lap top or waiting for a map that may not work and also thats what Alpine and Impulse use on there sleds and we all know how they run.But still junk eh.. Reverse i had last time i checked but if you say no reverse i guess i dont have reverse.lol
EZmoney I want to clarify a few things about Dave and his comments about MY Boondocker kit he worked on. When I brought my sled to him I wasn't happy with my Apex at all. I was using the Boondocker box that came with the kit. I saved the thread from the old forum with all the maps that guys were creating because BD didn't have a really good running map. I kept frigging around with the best of the different maps and nothing worked as well as it should of. My Pure Logic box had crapped out after 20 miles ( yeah it was sealed with silicon and dielectric grease at the connection)!!! I wanted the best running box for my sled and I didn't want to frig with correcting a fuel map on the hill. My riding time is precious to me. RB3 is the by far the best box I have run with my Boondocker kit. Dave set me up with a double down pipe and he ran Tuning Bike with my RB3 allowing tuning bike to build the correct map for my Apex. Dave then modified the map to make the sled run at the best A/f ratio throughout the entire RPM and Boost range. My sled is running to 18 lbs of boost and there is still room for a lot more based on the fuel its using. Daves products and his tuning ability made my sled flat out RIP. NO lag, no burbles, it runs Clean and Crisp.
I can throttle on and off at any boost level without a hiccup! It's now a Boondockin' Apex! The difference between the best running BD map by Snowesters and best Boondocker/Pure Logic dealer setup cannot compare to the RB3 map and double down pipe.The log header is the least efficient header out there. It's the bottleneck in the Boondocker. It builds too much heat, and is restrictive which can lead to DETO. I've added a water meth setup as insurance. The stacks in my BD intercooler aren't anywhere near the efficiency/flow of the PowderLites. I thought I can add as much boost to compensate for this but its lost Hp as compared to an EFFICIENT flowing turbo setup (boost vs boost). Darren also spotted a 2" seam where my intercooler wasn't welded.
Oh well easily missed easily fixed.I was told by the dealer that reverse wasn't available and relayed that to Dave but I guess with a bellcrank and the parkbrake cable I did a search and see it's doable.
Thanks again to Darren and Dave at PowderLites for the Great service! Dave is a TUNER and they do terrific work. I've had a close look at their kits and even drank a little Koolaid
Pylon I don't know who you are but I am sure I am the first Boondocker turbo Dave has used the Tuning Bike on. I wonder where you got your story from? I'm certain it"s not me. I do know what I am doing tuning the Boondocker box. The map Dave created is now available on TY right after it was built for my sled. I am good for 18 lbs of boost plus there's room for more based on fuel used!
Roughrider99 you can PM me for a LOT more of the details. Trust me my experience with the Boondocker hasn't been fun... very costly yes but not fun... guaranteed my next turbo will be a PowderLites with a RB3.
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great info guys. I think the debating between the 2 kits and boxes really helps bring out the strong points and the possible low points to each kit. Any body have a header an intercooler fix for bd?
As far as lag goes i just don;t want the amount of lag a rear mount has. Rode a couple MCX nytros and just don;t like the lag at all, the front mount rx1 i rode was much better for my riding!
As far as lag goes i just don;t want the amount of lag a rear mount has. Rode a couple MCX nytros and just don;t like the lag at all, the front mount rx1 i rode was much better for my riding!
By the time you get a Powderlites intercooler and a custom header you are above the price range as a PowderLites kit. I forgot to mention the last day out I almost didn't make it out of Turtle because my brake fluid boiled. Luckily I had enough to brake through the trees! Boondocker sounded great to me too in the beginning. I have already bought the Powderlites kit and then some. The oil tank has no baffles and you'll have issues with engine oil under the hood. Hope it doesn't get on your belt and clutches!!! The oil line is cheaply built for 60 psi. You'll want a steel braided line for that. Guess where you are going to buy that from??? Aaaand you have to be careful when installing the turbo oil return.
Lifes too short...go ride
Lifes too short...go ride
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Hard to believe that after 2 seasons, installers still can't clutch their turbo setups. Did you mean MCX RX1's? The lag on a properly set up MCX Nytro is minimal. Maybe I'm just lucky
I rode the tnytro last year and it was an mcx 260hp kit and clutched to mcx specs.The lag was fairly minimal but enough for me to believe that in a bad sitiuation when i need power now i felt the front mount would be much better. The rx1 was a complete mod with simons cpr kit and it was all done up by chris banser. approx 370hp so i guess its not that fair to compare, only rode tnytro for like half an hour but i was already in love with front mount. I also have a mtn mod seat and some other stuff that would not work with rear mount and i don;t want to go through hassle of selling my parts to get stuff for rear mount. Mid mount kits are the nicest but lotsa $$$$$
Gunner I seen larger injectors on TY sold by Hurricane Performance. One Stop was using the largest offered. Dave and Darren at Powderlites were talking about having them too and making them work with Rapid Bike.
yo,
powder lites mos def.....those guys are awesome!,
beard
powder lites mos def.....those guys are awesome!,
beard
E
EZmoney
Well-known member
Quick silver
First off..... read my first post in no way what so ever was i negative towards Dave or powderlites in any way. Coming on to a public forum and being a critic with his compation is no way to do business! I dont see the other turbo outfits doing that ever. So dont tell me im being to hard on him,and you know what im talking about here. I just returned the favor and so did others .Im glad he got your sled going for ya:beer.No offence but sounds to me your not much of a tuner relying on maps with you BD box and you PL box from other people and dealers. Not spotting the 2'' seam Darren found for ya is beyond me.Geee i bet it works better now.Do you think you may have had a boost leak??? Sounds like you a real expert with turbos.
First off..... read my first post in no way what so ever was i negative towards Dave or powderlites in any way. Coming on to a public forum and being a critic with his compation is no way to do business! I dont see the other turbo outfits doing that ever. So dont tell me im being to hard on him,and you know what im talking about here. I just returned the favor and so did others .Im glad he got your sled going for ya:beer.No offence but sounds to me your not much of a tuner relying on maps with you BD box and you PL box from other people and dealers. Not spotting the 2'' seam Darren found for ya is beyond me.Geee i bet it works better now.Do you think you may have had a boost leak??? Sounds like you a real expert with turbos.
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powderlites
Well-known member
Can't decide which Turbo kit
Well RoughRider hope you got some good info out of this thread.!
I was just pointing out some strikes against the Boondocker and what i have been doing to help guys out that phone or bring there sleds in.
Quantum Velocity would be great to talk to as they do installs and work on a lot of different turbo kits.
I wasn't knocking you EZ Money but you take it as I was and all I was doing was giving good info to RoughRider about kits. As for power the Tuning bike used on Boondocker kit and on our own turbo kit show who kits is making power. Less Boost and 20% more fuel needed to tune our stage 1 kit.
I take you on a little fun drag race at BIS! Can I use a 3 cyl on pump gas?
Maybe Quicksilver and you can line up and see what happens and really compare your great tuning.
So Roughrider build a list of things you need after you buy any kit used or new or parts you need to make it run proper.
Well RoughRider hope you got some good info out of this thread.!
I was just pointing out some strikes against the Boondocker and what i have been doing to help guys out that phone or bring there sleds in.
Quantum Velocity would be great to talk to as they do installs and work on a lot of different turbo kits.
I wasn't knocking you EZ Money but you take it as I was and all I was doing was giving good info to RoughRider about kits. As for power the Tuning bike used on Boondocker kit and on our own turbo kit show who kits is making power. Less Boost and 20% more fuel needed to tune our stage 1 kit.
I take you on a little fun drag race at BIS! Can I use a 3 cyl on pump gas?
Maybe Quicksilver and you can line up and see what happens and really compare your great tuning.
So Roughrider build a list of things you need after you buy any kit used or new or parts you need to make it run proper.
Going to be some very good competition at BIS I only hope I can make it too watch.
hey guys thanks for all the great info. This summer i think its gonna boil down to pretty much what is affordable at the time and how much power i really want.
EZmoney
EZmoney...I never told you that you were being hard on Dave.
I wanted to clear things up as to why Dave expessed dissapointment with MY Boondocker kit by telling MY side of the story.
My Pure Logic box failed after 20 miles...how was I supposed to tune something in that short period of time? Does everyone start out with a Pure Logic box with NO MAP??? Why don't you post your PL box settings for all to try? Everyone has free access to mine because its posted on TY.
EVERYONE that said they were happy with their Boondocker kit were busy sharing maps and different settings with their Boondocker Box from the old forum. I started with a map that ran well and started to tune from there so that my sled ran fairly clean for my Apex. It doesn't compare to the RB3. End of story. Period. Boondocker box is incapable of advancing timing and then pulling it with boost.
The 2" seam that wasn't welded externally was likely welded from the inside. Extra insurance from the external weld. Just dissapointed with the overall finish of it.
I found NO leaks on my intake or exhaust side to 25 lbs using my leakdown tester and some adapters.
I have built my turboed RX-1 in early 2004 and still have it. I was debating whether or not I would sell it. Now that my Apex is running as good as it is I'll part with my RX-1.
Thanks for the virtual beers I hope to make the BIS maybe we can have a couple real ones together and end the sh!t talking.
First off..... read my first post in no way what so ever was i negative towards Dave or powderlites in any way. Coming on to a public forum and being a critic with his compation is no way to do business! I dont see the other turbo outfits doing that ever. So dont tell me im being to hard on him,and you know what im talking about here. I just returned the favor and so did others .Im glad he got your sled going for ya:beer.No offence but sounds to me your not much of a tuner relying on maps with you BD box and you PL box from other people and dealers. Not spotting the 2'' seam Darren found for ya is beyond me.Geee i bet it works better now.Do you think you may have had a boost leak??? Sounds like you a real expert with turbos.
EZmoney...I never told you that you were being hard on Dave.
I wanted to clear things up as to why Dave expessed dissapointment with MY Boondocker kit by telling MY side of the story.
My Pure Logic box failed after 20 miles...how was I supposed to tune something in that short period of time? Does everyone start out with a Pure Logic box with NO MAP??? Why don't you post your PL box settings for all to try? Everyone has free access to mine because its posted on TY.
EVERYONE that said they were happy with their Boondocker kit were busy sharing maps and different settings with their Boondocker Box from the old forum. I started with a map that ran well and started to tune from there so that my sled ran fairly clean for my Apex. It doesn't compare to the RB3. End of story. Period. Boondocker box is incapable of advancing timing and then pulling it with boost.
The 2" seam that wasn't welded externally was likely welded from the inside. Extra insurance from the external weld. Just dissapointed with the overall finish of it.
I found NO leaks on my intake or exhaust side to 25 lbs using my leakdown tester and some adapters.
I have built my turboed RX-1 in early 2004 and still have it. I was debating whether or not I would sell it. Now that my Apex is running as good as it is I'll part with my RX-1.
Thanks for the virtual beers I hope to make the BIS maybe we can have a couple real ones together and end the sh!t talking.
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