Canadian health care system going boom.
- Thread starter Ollie
- Start date
What a tone deaf government we have going here! I'm finally starting to hear that some peeps that voted for BO are being disappointed.
He has also said the Canadian system could be restructured to focus on patients if hospitals and other health-care institutions received funding based on the patients they treat, instead of an annual, lump-sum budget. This "activity-based funding" would be an incentive to provide more efficient care, he has said.
He has also said the Canadian system could be restructured to focus on patients if hospitals and other health-care institutions received funding based on the patients they treat, instead of an annual, lump-sum budget. This "activity-based funding" would be an incentive to provide more efficient care, he has said.
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Ollie
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No, not really.
This caught my eye
"(Canadians) have to understand that the system that we have right now - if it keeps on going without change - is not sustainable," said Doig.
THat is the exact same arguement bo is using to try and get us to go to a government controlled health care system similar to what you have in Canada.
That statement right there shows that it doesn't work.
You can't put a one size fits all health care system in place and expect it to cure all the problems and that is what our politicians are trying to do.
This caught my eye
"(Canadians) have to understand that the system that we have right now - if it keeps on going without change - is not sustainable," said Doig.
THat is the exact same arguement bo is using to try and get us to go to a government controlled health care system similar to what you have in Canada.
That statement right there shows that it doesn't work.
You can't put a one size fits all health care system in place and expect it to cure all the problems and that is what our politicians are trying to do.
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Adrenaline Revolution
Well-known member
I believe he's referring to the statement in the article...
"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.
Looks like they're trying to fix it.
Why does it take our lousy president to push his lousy agenda on us to get your lousy government to fix your lousy socialist health care system?
EDIT....Then again, maybe not!
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frock
Well-known member
I think that if we still had politicians like Thomas C. Douglas (founder of our healthcare system) administering our healthcare system and making the necessary changes required to keep up with times that the system would be in a hell of a lot better shape.
We have a bunch of greedy douches running things now who can't see past themselves and have no qualms about running this country into the ground or selling it off to foreign interests.
We have a bunch of greedy douches running things now who can't see past themselves and have no qualms about running this country into the ground or selling it off to foreign interests.
Too many adminitards and not enough doctors, nurses and assistants.
Militant health care unions are the largest cost of health care in Canada. True the admin end is too greedy but, the unskilled workers are draining the coffers as well. I have no quarrel with the people who have taken training and are educated in the medical field. However the untrained menial workers should be making a wage that is in line with private sector employers. The costs of running our health care system are way out of line. Admin's are scared to lose their stipend so as a result they needlessly spend every penny they are budgeted so as not to lose future funding. A one size fits all medical system is a failure and will continue to be.
Frock do you really think Tommy Douglas and his tax and spend cronies would be doing any better? Look at the financial bottom line of every socialist govt in Canadian history. Do you really want your unborn children to pay for your health care today? If you want a socialized health care system then move south to the land where the entitled rule!
Time for people to grow up and pay their own bills!
Frock do you really think Tommy Douglas and his tax and spend cronies would be doing any better? Look at the financial bottom line of every socialist govt in Canadian history. Do you really want your unborn children to pay for your health care today? If you want a socialized health care system then move south to the land where the entitled rule!
Time for people to grow up and pay their own bills!
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Ollie
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That is usually the problem with any and all government programs.
They are usually started by well meaning people that are actually trying to do something good.
Too bad they lose control of it and power hungry politicians use it to take control of systems and to change the system is such ways as was never intended.
All we in the US have to do is look at medicare, medicaid, social security and welfare to see the future of federally controlled health care.
Ollie or anyone else, how do you feel about out present health care system? Do you believe it's fine as is? How do you guys feel about the health insurance industry? What should we do if anything?
I've always been curious as to what the results of a poll here on SW asking the Canadians how they feel about their system?
I've always been curious as to what the results of a poll here on SW asking the Canadians how they feel about their system?
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Anti-Hero
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I think the present system is good, for about $4.65 per check i can pick whichever doc i want to see in a timely fashion, sure mine you i have a job and the company helps out of medical costs. and yes if i was on welfare i too would demand free health care that is less quality!
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Ollie
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There are some serious changes that need to be done, and the fact neither of these are in ANY of bo's health care overhall tells me he either isn't serious, or is completely clueless.
One - TORT reform. We have to get the frivolous law suits under control and get lawyers out of the medical system. Put doctors back in charge. One of the things driving the cost of health insurance is medical malpractice insurance and hospital insurance. Case in point, the lady that filed a law suit against a doctor because she had a scar after a medical procedure. She had breast implants put in. She had a small 1" scar under her boob. She won (I believe it was) in the neighborhood of 5 mill.. That was even after it was shown that she was adviced she would have a small scar upon completion.
two - FDA reform. The exact same drugs, same name, same ingredients, etc.. in Europe cost 1/4 what they do here and they are available 10 - 15 years earlier.
Why?
FDA interference. It is the FDA's job to ensure the products are safe, but they have gone completely overboard. It costs over 100 million to bring just a new type of asperin to market. Testing in Europe is much simpler and cheaper thus they get it faster and much cheaper. We can't import any of those drugs into the US because of FDA rules. If we were allowed to bring in those drugs we could force the price down (what do you know, it's called free market enterprise).
third - Medical school reforms. Stop limiting the number of doctors available. By limiting the number of slots open to train doctors they create a vacuum. We actually import doctors because we don't have enough in the US. Why don't they open more schools?? The credidation process is absolutely INSANE. That is why it costs so much to become a doctor and why they charge so much for their services.
fourth - Allow hospitals to turn away any and all illegals. They go to the emergency room for everything. They tie up the ER and drive up the costs for everyone else. There are hospitals shutting down because they have been overrun by illegals demanding free medical care.
You do those things, we will drop the cost of medical insurance by half.
There are doctors who no longer take medical insurance. If you want their help, you sign a legally binding agreement that you won't sue if they make a mistake, they agree to treat you for a fare price and to do their best to care for you. The cost is nothing compared to what "traditional" medical care costs are.
You are incorrect. They cost 1/4 because the govt forces them too.. not because of the FDA...
International report...
Prescription Drug price differences..
Price controls Europe..
The last link is contrary to your last statement. Seems the US is seen as the innovator in pharmaceuticals.. It would stand to reason, since the profit margins are so much higher over here..
So you want the government to dictate how medical schools operate? Yah, FORCE schools to train more doctors... LMAO!!
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Anybody that feels that there are too many frivilous medical lawsuits really needs to investigate this. Does anybody have any idea how difficult it is to prove in the court of law that a DR. made a mistake??
To do this you must get another DR. (most cases 2 DR's) to testify that whatever the DR. being sued did or did not do is infact malpractice. There is an agreement by all DR's to never testify against each other. The standards are so high to prove medical malpracice that most cases are dismissed before it ever goes to trial.
I'll give you a personal example...1992 I had foot and ankle surgery. After surgery I was having way more pain than before. 5 months after surgery, I notice something trying to pop out of the rear arch of my foot. My DR. kept telling me that it was just a blood vessel and that the type of surgery performed was a 12-18 month healing process and to just be patient.
At the 12 month mark, things are not going well, so I go get a second opinion and this DR. takes an X-ray and discovers that a 5 inch drain tube was left in my foot during surgery. WTF?? After reviewing all the X-rays taken over those 12 months, including the one taken one week after surgery, the drain tube shows up clear as day!!
To make a very long story short, I had to pay my DR. to remove the tube, (insurance wouldn't pay and no other DR would touch it due to possible legal action) I asked the DR to perform the removal for free and he says, "I can't do that, I'd have to pay the hospital, nurses, other DR's,Anastesologist, etc. Cost me a litlle over $32,000 in December of 1993 for this.
So after surgery, I attain an attorney (I agree they're Slimbuckets) and after 3 years the case is dismissed because NO DR. would say that this was "Medical Malpractice" even though my attorney had case Washington state case law showing that the leaving of foriegn object in the body during surgery IS MEDICAL MALPRACTICE. Once my case is dismissed, IT IS OVER!!! All I was suing for was my $32,000 and attorney fees.
My case along with 3 others ended up airing on our local NBC affiliate King 5 on two seperate occasions. It appeared that this DR was in business of hacking up people like me and continually getting away with it. It was revealed that he used his practice to RAPE his daughter and was allowed work release instead of full prison "because as the sentencing judge put it, "he's a Doctor". It was also proved he was golfing buddies with the Director of the Dept of Health so all state complaints were thrown in the trash. This DR got away with 20 years of this type of behavior and leaving me with a ruined foot and ankle that DR's won't touch and others alot worse off. This is our current system!!
Some states don't even allow you to sue a DR if it is a Workmans Comp claim. Washington isn't but I know Oregon is. In oregon, the decision is left up to the state/Workmans comp division whether or not to go after a DR if it's believed medical malpractice exists.
If I rebuild your transmission, I have to guarantee it. That means regardless of whatever goes wrong, my fault or the fault of a part, if it should, I provide the repair completely FREE OF CHARGE!!
Why should DR's be above this?
You want to give them a "FREE HACK YOU UP CARD"??? Make them less responsible?? They already make you sign about 20 pieces of paper stating how they're not responsible and you want to give them more power.
I say you make DR's MORE responsible and you would see LESS frivilous lawsuits because then there would be a reason for them to not make mistakes. The reason you see so many these days is 2 reasons. 1) Everyone is sue happy 2) the DR's have zero responsibility as it is.
How much is human life worth if a DR makes a mistake? What is a life worth that's now induced with pain or problems due to a mistake of a DR??
I would encourage anybody that doesn't agree with the impossible task of proving medical malpractice to search out this issue and find out the REAL TRUTH!!
To do this you must get another DR. (most cases 2 DR's) to testify that whatever the DR. being sued did or did not do is infact malpractice. There is an agreement by all DR's to never testify against each other. The standards are so high to prove medical malpracice that most cases are dismissed before it ever goes to trial.
I'll give you a personal example...1992 I had foot and ankle surgery. After surgery I was having way more pain than before. 5 months after surgery, I notice something trying to pop out of the rear arch of my foot. My DR. kept telling me that it was just a blood vessel and that the type of surgery performed was a 12-18 month healing process and to just be patient.
At the 12 month mark, things are not going well, so I go get a second opinion and this DR. takes an X-ray and discovers that a 5 inch drain tube was left in my foot during surgery. WTF?? After reviewing all the X-rays taken over those 12 months, including the one taken one week after surgery, the drain tube shows up clear as day!!
To make a very long story short, I had to pay my DR. to remove the tube, (insurance wouldn't pay and no other DR would touch it due to possible legal action) I asked the DR to perform the removal for free and he says, "I can't do that, I'd have to pay the hospital, nurses, other DR's,Anastesologist, etc. Cost me a litlle over $32,000 in December of 1993 for this.
So after surgery, I attain an attorney (I agree they're Slimbuckets) and after 3 years the case is dismissed because NO DR. would say that this was "Medical Malpractice" even though my attorney had case Washington state case law showing that the leaving of foriegn object in the body during surgery IS MEDICAL MALPRACTICE. Once my case is dismissed, IT IS OVER!!! All I was suing for was my $32,000 and attorney fees.
My case along with 3 others ended up airing on our local NBC affiliate King 5 on two seperate occasions. It appeared that this DR was in business of hacking up people like me and continually getting away with it. It was revealed that he used his practice to RAPE his daughter and was allowed work release instead of full prison "because as the sentencing judge put it, "he's a Doctor". It was also proved he was golfing buddies with the Director of the Dept of Health so all state complaints were thrown in the trash. This DR got away with 20 years of this type of behavior and leaving me with a ruined foot and ankle that DR's won't touch and others alot worse off. This is our current system!!
Some states don't even allow you to sue a DR if it is a Workmans Comp claim. Washington isn't but I know Oregon is. In oregon, the decision is left up to the state/Workmans comp division whether or not to go after a DR if it's believed medical malpractice exists.
If I rebuild your transmission, I have to guarantee it. That means regardless of whatever goes wrong, my fault or the fault of a part, if it should, I provide the repair completely FREE OF CHARGE!!
Why should DR's be above this?
You want to give them a "FREE HACK YOU UP CARD"??? Make them less responsible?? They already make you sign about 20 pieces of paper stating how they're not responsible and you want to give them more power.
I say you make DR's MORE responsible and you would see LESS frivilous lawsuits because then there would be a reason for them to not make mistakes. The reason you see so many these days is 2 reasons. 1) Everyone is sue happy 2) the DR's have zero responsibility as it is.
How much is human life worth if a DR makes a mistake? What is a life worth that's now induced with pain or problems due to a mistake of a DR??
I would encourage anybody that doesn't agree with the impossible task of proving medical malpractice to search out this issue and find out the REAL TRUTH!!
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Ollie
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Just the opposite.
It is government regulations that inhibit schools from having the ability to train MORE doctors.
There is more to the cost of drugs in Europe than just government control. If the companies weren't making a profit they wouldn't be selling, also, none of the articles you quoted answer why they get the drugs 10 -15 years faster then here.
Also, there are already laws on the books to protect US consumers. If the drug companies are price gouging (sp?), then they should be prosecuted under the appropriate laws. We don't need big brother taking over, as usual, just enforce the laws already on the books instead of creating new ones.
diamonddave
One of the problems is people seem to forget that doctors arn't god.
Your doctor made a mistake, granted he should have admitted the mistake and just corrected the problem, however, had he done that he would have opened himself and the hospital up for a major lawsuit, so yea, he is going to deny anything is wrong.
It sucks, but it goes back to tort reform.
Had the doctor not been terrified of being destroyed in a law suit, he prob. would have taken care of the problem after it was discovered.
No, I don't think so... Everywhere I have seen, the govt does not have control over class size, nor maximum graduating numbers...
Please explain your point of view..
They sell them here for a larger profit.. We help pay for Europe's cheap medicine. I have to find the report I read that talked about that... I think I posted it a while back too... I did not say they don't make a profit. They just don't make as much as they could or as they do in the US...
That is because that belief is BS...
The above is from the last link I posted... So the FDA is 1 year faster then the EMA... Where does your 10-15 year information come from? The 1950's?
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There are some great discussions here and the one thing I think everyone agrees on is we need major reform in the health care industry big time. The thing is, if we think the government is the answer to bring costs down then we are all screwed Like DD. They have never brought the cost down on anything that I'm aware of.
It's very frustrating to think we are powerless against doctors and insurance company's but have you ever tried to go up against the government? No thanks!
Diamonddave is one of my riding Buddy's and he is in major pain ALL of the time with something that's probably fixable but no doctor will touch him. How is he supposed to deal with that?
As someone that is about to go in for my 11th surgery and second one this summer, I think about DD's situation and wonder what if? No one knows or really cares about your pain but you. It's a lonely feeling and very very frustrating but just imagine if no one would help you.
What is the answer? I don't know but it aint uncle sam imo.
It's very frustrating to think we are powerless against doctors and insurance company's but have you ever tried to go up against the government? No thanks!
Diamonddave is one of my riding Buddy's and he is in major pain ALL of the time with something that's probably fixable but no doctor will touch him. How is he supposed to deal with that?
As someone that is about to go in for my 11th surgery and second one this summer, I think about DD's situation and wonder what if? No one knows or really cares about your pain but you. It's a lonely feeling and very very frustrating but just imagine if no one would help you.
What is the answer? I don't know but it aint uncle sam imo.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear.
Ollie, once the other DR. found the tube, I went back to the original DR that made the mistake. I explicitly asked him to do the surgery for free and that's when he told me he couldn't for reasons stated in my first post. Had he done the surgery for free, I would've went on my marry way. So I had to PAY that DR to remove it that's when I went to an attorney. I understand that surgeries are 50/50, but where I come from if you make a mistake, then you're responsible.
I realize DR.'s are not GOD and it's because they're NOT GOD that they should be held to the same standards as the rest of the population. With the laws that are in place at least in this state, they are above the law.
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Ollie
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Unfortunetly, in your case the doctor was negligent. The problem is, your case runs afoul of the who malpractice lawsuit problem. There are so many BS lawsuits that both doctors and hospitals are so on the defence they won't admit ANY errors for fear of the lawsuits to follow. You may have just went marrily on your way, unfortently the majority of people just see a huge pot of cash and will sue for any reason.
In your case, a lawsuit to recover costs and such would prob. be a good idea.
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Ollie
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No, I don't think so... Everywhere I have seen, the govt does not have control over class size, nor maximum graduating numbers...
Please explain your point of view..
Federal regulators set the criteria as to what is to be taught and how a school goes about getting acredited to teach doctors.
They sell them here for a larger profit.. We help pay for Europe's cheap medicine. I have to find the report I read that talked about that... I think I posted it a while back too... I did not say they don't make a profit. They just don't make as much as they could or as they do in the US...
If we are being gouged, then the drug companies should be charged with it. If not, then there is something else going on. I would be interested to see that report.
That is because that belief is BS...
I hate to admit it, but you are correct. It appears I read an eronious report. Here is a better one.
http://csdd.tufts.edu/_documents/www/Doc_309_12_892.pdf
The above is from the last link I posted... So the FDA is 1 year faster then the EMA... Where does your 10-15 year information come from? The 1950's?
FDA is slower but only by 30 - 120 days.
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