Can we help Cardiac Kid?

[Kraven]

Wow Kraven thanks!!
1) On the voltage reg, what does your gauge show on the dash?? 1 or 2 notches down from the top is close. I will need to check I did know this existed.
2) One and only fuel filter, if in doubt, check it by removing it and trying to blow through it.ck

3) If the pipe sensor goes bad, you get 5 flashes on the dash. no flash at all

4) Did you ever try taking some mini vise grips and pinching off the exhaust purge hoses??? Have done thanks to THEFULLMONTY

5) I'm sure you checked this already, but possible torn exhaust bellows???? been checked and good then lost one and check again and all good now

6) When checking the T.P.S. can/did you use the old needle style voltmeter and throttle up and down SLOWLY and see if there's an erratic reading possible "flat/dead spot on the T.P.S.?????? Yes

7) Has the stator been tested? No but looking forward to this.

Real E-Z to do, here's the specs:

Test the wires coming from the stator (+/- 15% at 20* C) w/sled cold, then repeat when warm:


For the 2008 600cfi/700/800 CFI's

1) YELLOW to YELLOW 0.13 OHMS

2) DARK GREEN/RED to GREEN/YELLOW 15 OHMS

3) DARK GREEN/RED to BROWN/WHITE 30 ohms

4) DARK BLUE/YELLOW to BLUE/YELLOW 2.4 ohms

5) WHITE/RED to WHITE 190 ohms

6) WHITE/DARK GREEN to DARK GREEN 190 ohms

7) BROWN /WHITE to GROUND 0 ohms

8) BROWN to GROUND 0 ohms


+/- 15% at 20* C


Hope this helps

Can we add this to the increasing you IQ this is helpful for me and likly others.[/QUOTE]

On the bold & BLUE , I p.m.'d Monte about adding that to the INCREASING your IQ SECTION as well, haven't heard back, perhaps it'll take a few more requests?????

Cardiac Kid,

One more thought, how about taking an old oil pressure gauge, air gauge, whatever and temporarily hooking it up to the schraeder valve (on the fuel line, by using the old style A/C charge kit line available at auto parts stores) by the air box and duct tape the gauge to the handle bars so that you can monitor the fuel pressure as you're driving down the trail.

Mid to high 50"s P.S.I;. is what you wan to see, whether it's idling or doing 100 m.p.h.

Actually one more idea (I think that's 2 now) , how about either swapping out injectors or having them tested. Usually diesel truck places have the capability to test injectors.


Question, when you had the PC-5 on your sled, WHERE did it run worse, mid-range or top end??

Did you try hooking it back up to see if it re-duplicates the situation since it's an E-Z disconnect /re-connect on the trail?????

Hope this helps.

 

[Kraven]

2nd FUEL FILTER

Actually there are two fuel filters, a primary which is the large one and a fine small one from what i was told and the part numbers are in the above post. He had the small fine filter replaced.

Likin It,

Where are they hiding the 2nd filter, in the tank, I thought there was only one on the side of the airbox????????????????????

 

[EricW]

ok Eric..since you are pulling off miracles this week..can ya sell my dragon(it actually does rip).....

Geez....Asking to sell a DRAGON of all sleds in a down economy with a strained supply of pistons and cylinders and reports of a 2011 that is so much better that even MountainHorse looked like a good rider on it. Wow, thats not asking much, maybe I could just part the inside passage for ya and you could ride it down here so I could put it in the Nickel Nik.

You know what they say about life lessons and walking beside a man rather than carrying him. I think it goes something like this:

"Build a man a fire and he stays warm for a night, Light a man on fire and he stays warm the rest of his life". I thought there was something about fish in that too but I can't remember. LOL.

Rather than carry you I will just send you some stickers that say "Chris Burandt rides this sled". That should do it. EW

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Geez....Asking to sell a DRAGON of all sleds in a down economy with a strained supply of pistons and cylinders and reports of a 2011 that is so much better that even MountainHorse looked like a good rider on it. Wow, thats not asking much, maybe I could just part the inside passage for ya and you could ride it down here so I could put it in the Nickel Nik.

You know what they say about life lessons and walking beside a man rather than carrying him. I think it goes something like this:

"Build a man a fire and he stays warm for a night, Light a man on fire and he stays warm the rest of his life". I thought there was something about fish in that too but I can't remember. LOL.

Rather than carry you I will just send you some stickers that say "Chris Burandt rides this sled". That should do it. EW

Bwahaha,,,you are still the man eric...let me know how cardiac's sled goes..hopefully you get him fixed right up....

 

[thefullmonte]

Way to pull together team. Eric, that would be great if you could take a look at his sled.
I will get that posted into the "increasing your IQ sticky". I haven't forgotten about it, just been so busy at work. Uhg, spring is almost here.

 

[allblowdup]

I would verify the ign timing with a light as well as crank phase. On the old sleds if they ran like that it was a sure sign of retarded timing. It is possible the something is wrong with your stator and putting your timing off. The ecu would never know the difference. MY 02

 

[Cardiac Kid]

Kraven
I could check the fuel pressure pretty easy I think. I have rented (full refund) a fuel pressure gauge from the local auto parts store before on a jeep motor fuel injection project last summer and that would make it quite simple.

Testing the injectors? I know a diesel mechanic but I don't run into him too much but maybe I will have to follow up on this if these other idea doesn’t fine something

The PC-5 I ended up unhooking multiple time because I was on a 4 day ride so each day I loaded a map or modified a map and a mile or so down the trail I just had to unhook it for the day. It was a mid range thing. All the maps that are being suggested add 10 to 17 percent fuel in the mid range with the idea that it is lean. This seemed to make the midrange stumble in my sled worse. So it has been on and off 4 times with the same results. It would be great to be able to measure the air and fuel to see where this thing is running in my trouble area of 6200 to 6900. I may just need to do a piston reading in this zone to see if it is running fat and not lean, but last time I looked before the mid January flash (still had the same midrange bog) there was barely a small finger nail size wash near the intake ports so I fingered it was lean then and still lean now. Maybe I need to do a leak down test to make sure I didn't lose another set of pistons. That would also explain the hard starting and low top rpm.

 

[diamonddave]

It could very well be that the ECM for whatever reason it's too fat in the mid's hence the PC5 making the symptom worse. Having one of Polaris' good maps like you said they've tried probably wouldn't be compatatible with SLP's or Jims maps. One of the reasons I was asking about fuel consumption. EGT's and an auto tune would definately help in this situation.

And it could be lean on the top. If a comprimised TPS return signal was F'd up or any other comprimise in an input or output signal, you could have rich and lean in differences both in the power band.

 

[Kraven]

It could very well be that the ECM for whatever reason it's too fat in the mid's hence the PC5 making the symptom worse. Having one of Polaris' good maps like you said they've tried probably wouldn't be compatatible with SLP's or Jims maps. One of the reasons I was asking about fuel consumption. EGT's and an auto tune would definately help in this situation.

And it could be lean on the top. If a comprimised TPS return signal was F'd up or any other comprimise in an input or output signal, you could have rich and lean in differences both in the power band.

On the bold, that's what I'm thinking.

Cardiac Kid, I know you said the T.P.S. was checked, I think maybe a re-check might be a good idea, and please triple check the 5.000 volts on the tester just prior to.

 

[Cardiac Kid]

I was very detailed when I went thought the TPS because I felt it was the most likely cause. It would have had to be very non-linear to create a fat and lean condition that contradicted the stock mapping. I could easily see it enriching the entire circuit or leaning the entire circuit but no creating a reverse wave of what is mapped. I checked it with a very solid 4.998 volt source well within spec and a quality gauge. Upon purchasing the PC5 I was able read the sensor voltage at Idle and any place along the throttle opening ( sled has to be running). The idle setting the PC 5 reads is within 2 thousands of a volt of what I set it at, 0.935 vs. 0.937 well within the plus or minus 1 one-hundredth required. I check the TPS resistance reading from close plate to full open with the digital gauge and no jumps or spikes, I also grabbed an old analog gauge (very cheap) I've had laying around for 30 yrs and the resistant was very smooth and appeared linear. If the TPS is creating a fat midrange I have to believe it is creating an equally fat WO condition. If my voltage source is fluctuating then all bets are off it could be doing anything. If the PC 5 is bad then I don't know how to check this but I have a call in to discuss my condtion. It does log an enrichment just off idle that is not showing in the fuel table so I will ask about that. It hard to tell elseware without a data logger to store the data.

 

[diamonddave]

I was very detailed when I went thought the TPS because I felt it was the most likely cause. It would have had to be very non-linear to create a fat and lean condition that contradicted the stock mapping. I could easily see it enriching the entire circuit or leaning the entire circuit but no creating a reverse wave of what is mapped. I checked it with a very solid 4.998 volt source well within spec and a quality gauge. Upon purchasing the PC5 I was able read the sensor voltage at Idle and any place along the throttle opening ( sled has to be running). The idle setting the PC 5 reads is within 2 thousands of a volt of what I set it at, 0.935 vs. 0.937 well within the plus or minus 1 one-hundredth required. I check the TPS resistance reading from close plate to full open with the digital gauge and no jumps or spikes, I also grabbed an old analog gauge (very cheap) I've had laying around for 30 yrs and the resistant was very smooth and appeared linear. If the TPS is creating a fat midrange I have to believe it is creating an equally fat WO condition. If my voltage source is fluctuating then all bets are off it could be doing anything. If the PC 5 is bad then I don't know how to check this but I have a call in to discuss my condtion. It does log an enrichment just off idle that is not showing in the fuel table so I will ask about that. It hard to tell elseware without a data logger to store the data.

Not necessarily, that's not typically how TPS' will fail. Remember first that typically a stock map is going to be a little lean in the mid and a little fat on the top. When a TPS produces a dropout or glitch, return voltage to the ECM can/could/might be less than what the ECM needs for that exact throttle opening thus causing a lean condition or rich condition depending on how the ECM is designed to react when voltages aren't what they should be. The TPS may be ok at 0-10 % throttle opening and go haywire at 10-20%. Now, when it goes haywire, is the TPS voltage dropping out OR is it actually sending a return voltage that would equal 30 or 40% when opening% should only be 10-20%??? And then most times, a defective TPS will regain it's composure and behave normally at 40% throttle opening and on up to full throttle.


Typical TPS' failures will have dropouts (often very difficult to diagnois even with state of the art equipment) in the mid ranges of throttle opening. I've seen many defective TPS' in automobiles and never once have I seen a linear type of symptom.

Us 900 owners have been dealing with runnability problems for a while now and TPS' and the connectors have been failiing. Out of the 3 900 TPS' I've replaced (look almost identical to the 8's at least same manufactuer) ALL had different type of runnability issues and none were linear across the board/powerband symptoms. I have a feeling the 8's are going to start seeing the same thing. I would also be checking the wires and crimps in the connector for the TPS.

At this point, all we can assume is that your TPS is adjusted correctly, but we don't know whether it is defective or not. Adjusting and actual testing are 2 different things. Sometimes i've seen TPS' test good and be nothing but a paper weight. That's because the glitches "can" occur so fast and rebound that even the most sophisticated equipment doesn't pick it up but quick enough for the onboard ECM to pick it up. These are times when the overall problem likes to have parts/darts thrown at it.

 

[Cardiac Kid]

Thanks for explaining Diamonddave.

 

[F-Bomb]

Cardiac, drag your sled out to a decent test ground environment (decently close to your normal riding alt and long flat trail or road) so you can make runs and pull plugs to compare. Right now you are totally guessing at your state of tune and until you can get that aspect figured out you are chasing your tail. Put in some NGK ES 9 plugs gapped 24thous (easiest to read reports from).

Run the thing a minimum of 10 seconds at held consistant RPM's starting about 5000 and work your way up to full throttle (also really concentrate where you feel poor performance so you can get a bead on wether you are spark related or fuel supply). I'd try to look at plugs for RPM ranges every 200 if you have the energy.

go to www.f-bombracing.com and read up on the digatron tech page plus copy that plug reading schematic and take it with you along with a magnifier and a pin light. The plugs will tell you everything you need to know. The accuracy of your reads depends on the duration and killing the sled's spark right at those RPM's.

Now I don't think this will resolve your issues but it will at least arm you with data so that you guys can trouble shoot more effectively. This is the same thing we do with A/F or EGT's and it helps take the guess work out of problems. (also buy and an EGT...it will make your life better down the road)

 

[gcmci]

Their is a new test for volt reg from Polaris
File to large for this site I can e-mail it though

 

[EricW]

Their is a new test for volt reg from Polaris
File to large for this site I can e-mail it though

EricW@centurytel.net Pleeeeeeeeese. Thank You. EW

 

[skibreeze]

EricW@centurytel.net Pleeeeeeeeese. Thank You. EW

Me too, please!

skibreeze71@msn.com

Thanks,
Dave