BOOST-IT FUEL SYSTEMS

[NM]

Im almost there. Just got to ask some more questions. Figured that it would be best to ask them here in case others have the same question.

So the Nytro you did the testing on, did it have a head shim? What about changes to cam timing? My biggest concern is that these modifications on my engine have changed the engines fueling requirements to the point where they are different enough that the factory ecu tune is not adequate. Maybe its so small of a difference for vacuum that it doesn't matter?

Thanks again.

Good question.
My sled has 9.5:1 pistons and some cam work, as well as some port work.

I plumb the sleds so that the fuel regulator does not see vac at idle (just like stock). This way the fuel pressure is always consistant, and the low speed driveability is much smoother. The stock map at idle and low speed cruise can be adjusted in the factory ecu, and I have done this for the variance in turbo kit, cam timing, etc. For example, I set my CO's (factory idle and low speed cruise fueling) at plus 10, and the first Powderlite kit looks like it will have to be at about plus 25 or maybe more. This is a quick adjustment that can be done in a couple minutes at any time. Once it is set properly, then it should never have to be adjusted again. I will offer instructions how to do this, so anyone with my kit can make the adjustment. This setting is important for pre boost driveability and fuel economy. Once the sled is on boost, the fueling is very simple. Hope that helps.

 

[Lococoin]

Thanks Neil. I will call you when you are home.

 

[Motleyone]

Hey Neil,

I am posting in response to this just because I don't want early Impulse guys that have not upgraded to freak out thinking they cannot boost over 15 pounds. The early Impulse kits(prior to the standalone) used 450 cc injectors but the kit also utilized a dual rate regulator to increase fuel pressure as boost increased. It was roughly 2:1. The best example I can give that the system worked and provided enough fuel was the hill drags when Paul's kit won the event in Pemberton. He was pushing 23-24 lbs on that 450 cc injector system and was seeing almost 100 psi at the top end and there was enough fuel. I agree that it is not ideal to increase the fuel pressure to that extreme to increase fuel supply. The current standalone uses 750 cc injectors and a 1:1 regulator.

Thanks Neil, hopefully we'll see ya in December. Plannin on the 17th-20th.

Ok here is the harsh reality for all the Powderlite, Alpine, and early Impulse Nytro owners.
If your sled is running 450 cc injectors in place of the stock injectors, then you only have enough fuel for 220 horsepower.
Don't believe it? Seen bigger numbers on a dyno?

The sled will make more power for a few seconds, but will quickly drop off and go lean, even with more fuel pressure.

Here is some info for everyone. What is everyone using for injectors this year?

Impulse Nytro 750 cc
Powderlites 1200 Doo 700cc
Hurricane standalone 1000cc
OSP standalone 1000cc
See a pattern here?
We proved last year when lake racing at elevation that after 8-10 seconds, a Nytro with 450 cc injectors at 15 lbs boost would go lean right off the guage and fall flat...every time! We tried 5 different sleds and they all did it, even with all fuel settings set as high as they would go.
Even a MCX 240 kit runs enough fuel to support around 270 hp? Know how? Extra injectors.
So if you have one of the first 3 sleds I mentioned...welcome to the 220 hp club! No wonder your buddy with his 240 hp MCX kit was handing it to you.

 

[NM]

Hey Neal,

I am posting in response to this just because I don't want early Impulse guys that have not upgraded to freak out thinking they cannot boost over 15 pounds. The early Impulse kits(prior to the standalone) used 450 cc injectors but the kit also utilized a dual rate regulator to increase fuel pressure as boost increased. It was roughly 2:1. The best example I can give that the system worked and provided enough fuel was the hill drags when Paul's kit won the event in Pemberton. He was pushing 23-24 lbs on that 450 cc injector system and was seeing almost 100 psi at the top end and there was enough fuel. I agree that it is not ideal to increase the fuel pressure to that extreme to increase fuel supply. The current standalone uses 750 cc injectors and a 1:1 regulator.

Thanks Neal, hopefully we'll see ya in December. Plannin on the 17th-20th.

My intention was not to make people freak out, just to realize what is really happening.
I remember those races well...I finished second to Pauls Nytro in that event. If memory serves me correctly, he also had NOS on that sled, which is oxegenated and supplemented with the appropriate fuel mixture. I also have run the same fuel regulator he was running on my own Nytro, and it is an adjustable rising rate regulator that is designed so fuel pressure can be adjusted up to 5:1 ratio. If it was a 2:1, then his base pressure would have to be around 60 PSI to reach 100PSI at 20 lbs boost, and we know the sled would not even run with 450 cc injectors at 60 lbs base pressure.
I have also burst a fuel line on my Nytro trying to make enough fuel pressure so my sled could make power over 15 lbs boost. The other problem with that BEGI regulator, is that it was designed for automobile use and when it got wet, it would freeze up or the spring would rust and it would never work. I have 4 of them on the bench that I would give away for free.
I give Paul alot of credit, he has at least made a solid effort to get fuel to these sleds that really need it, but there is a good reason that he now runs 750cc injectors.
Increasing fuel pressure is definately not the ideal way to get the fuel we need for these boosted engines, but like I have said before, it can work. By running proper fuel pressure with the proper injector size, it is much easier on the entire fuel system, including injectors, fuel pump, regulator, and fuel lines.
For 2 years, I had no idea how my Nytro was going to run from day to day, and now it runs the exact same day to day...perfect!

See you in Revy Motley!!

NM

 

[Ringer]

Well I put one on a 1200MCX Doo and I have another guy going to do the same, so I guess we will find out soon enough how the Doo likes it.

I tell people this...It was tested on a Nytro, and I know it works unreal, so I would think it should work the same on any 4 stroke. I have not tested on anything else, so I can't say for sure that it will work.
You have to remember that this is an extra injector controller, and only adds fuel when boost comes on. It starts to add fuel when you tell it to, and it adds how much you tell it to.. I think anyone that can spell turbo could tune this system.
I looked at the PL air box and it looks like my fuel bosses would weld right on to the intake runners which would be perfect for fuel atomization.
Bring me the sled...I will put a kit on and you can see how it works. The first guy that brings me a kit I have never done gets the labour for free.
I have done alot of Alpine, a MCX Doo, Powderlites Nytro, and have some guys testing on Northwest (Ulmer now) MCX Apex, and a few custom one off Nytro's.

I must be the first"customer apex you have looked at "? i will take the free install lol?

 

[Duke]

I must be the first"customer apex you have looked at "? i will take the free install lol?

I think Render beat you to it.

 

[NM]

I think Render beat you to it.

Ya, so did I! I appreciate the offer though Ringer.

I have the small fuel bosses in stock now, and they unfortunately will not work with the 450 cc injectors that Powderlites uses. They do work with the 450 cc injectors that Impulse and Alpine were using. I will post some pics in a while.

 

[Mountaintech]

Can you explain the difference in injectors that are being used?

 

[NM]

Can you explain the difference in injectors that are being used?

This should explain it. The PL one is the green injector. The o-ring spacing is way to short. If I get enough demand, then I could get a run of custom bosses made to fit.

 

[NM]

Got a few projects on the go.

 

[powpounder]

Hey Neil, nice meeting ya last night and having a few beer while looking over the sleds. Can't wait to try the new fuel system out in Revy. PS sweet sled on the right

 

[NM]

Hey Neil, nice meeting ya last night and having a few beer while looking over the sleds. Can't wait to try the new fuel system out in Revy. PS sweet sled on the right

haha, ya it is a pretty nice sled! It's going to rip too!

 

[Lococoin]

Well after many PMs to Neil I have decided to try this setup on my Nytro with the Powderlites turbo. I have not had the greatest luck with trying to get consistent air fuel numbers from the RB3. It works OK in boost because boost is fairly easy to tune, but the part throttle is always all over the map. Consistently running way too rich and therefore using more fuel than necessary. I believe that this is for a couple of reasons:

One is that there are only 8 load columns available to tune for vacuum and boost. The second is that the RB3 does not interpolate between load columns. That is the biggest downfall and is one that I was not aware of until recently. Without interpolation and only 8 load columns, it would be next to impossible to have the sled run like factory in vacuum, especially with the bigger injectors.

My plan for now is to disconnect the RB3 but leave it in place and ride with this system to get familiar with it. After that, I am going to attempt hooking back up the RB3 and trying to get it to work for timing only. I cannot see why this would not be possible, as long as you zero out all the fuel numbers in the columns. That way I will be able to tell first hand if it feels snappier on the bottom end with some extra timing. It probably wont be until the new year till I will be able to report my findings though, but I will post my findings after I have had the chance to play with it.

Figured this would be worth a shot since the RB3 is basically worthless to try and sell to someone on here, due to all the bad press it has been receiving as of late.

I have heard that there are a few PL kits trying this system, who else plans on playing with the RB3's timing capability in conjunction with this kit?

Steve

 

[Veedy]

Nice to see the shop so full of turbo goodness once again neil, who's black nytro ? damn, if those shop walls could talk. Many a BL has been chugged in there.
Might need to make a trip up there when you get back from your trip.

 

[Duke]

My plan for now is to disconnect the RB3 but leave it in place and ride with this system to get familiar with it. After that, I am going to attempt hooking back up the RB3 and trying to get it to work for timing only. I cannot see why this would not be possible, as long as you zero out all the fuel numbers in the columns. That way I will be able to tell first hand if it feels snappier on the bottom end with some extra timing. It probably wont be until the new year till I will be able to report my findings though, but I will post my findings after I have had the chance to play with it.

Steve

Hey Lococoin
IMO, if you already have the sled dialed in with the SDS and the factory CO's, adding timing ONLY will likely screw up your tune. You will probably need to add fuel either on the factory CO's or the RB3 to see any benefit of the added timing, unless its too rich. I would like to try the RB3 to tune on vacuum and let the SDS fuel for boost. I think the Rapid Bike box can be set up to run off the TPS instead of the MAP sensor. The nice thing about the RB3 is it can be used to pull fuel as well as add timing. I'm sure it will work good without the RB3. It will be interesting to see how all of the different set up's and different fuel system's play out this year.

 

[Lococoin]

Hey Lococoin
IMO, if you already have the sled dialed in with the SDS and the factory CO's, adding timing ONLY will likely screw up your tune. You will probably need to add fuel either on the factory CO's or the RB3 to see any benefit of the added timing, unless its too rich. I would like to try the RB3 to tune on vacuum and let the SDS fuel for boost. I think the Rapid Bike box can be set up to run off the TPS instead of the MAP sensor. The nice thing about the RB3 is it can be used to pull fuel as well as add timing. I'm sure it will work good without the RB3. It will be interesting to see how all of the different set up's and different fuel system's play out this year.

I wish I had the opportunity to ride a MCX 240 kit and my PL kit back to back last year. I am curious to know how much different it is with the extra timing added in part throttle to help reduce lag. Maybe its not even enough to make it worth while to keep the rb3 for timing only.

The SDS should be just what I need for fueling in boost. I am looking forward to easy adjust ability on the hill.

I dont plan on utilizing the RB3 for any part throttle tuning, its too much of a nightmare. Unless like you mentioned, you set it up to run off the TPS, then it may work well in conjunction with this. Using the map sensor and the RB3 for fueling is dead to me...

 

[NM]

New products from BOOST-IT

We have just received out first order of fuel rails and fuel lines for the extra injectors. Going forward, all kits will have this available as an option.
We even have a rail with 4 holes.

We now have jigs for welding in the bosses, which will also be included for the do it yourselfers.

 

[powpounder]

Looks good! Gonna be a nice clean set up Any pics on how the machines are coming? The weather is sure making the sled season feel like its right around the corner!!!!

 

[NM]

Looks good! Gonna be a nice clean set up Any pics on how the machines are coming? The weather is sure making the sled season feel like its right around the corner!!!!

The intercoolers are all done, so I could have a couple done by this weekend if all goes well.

 

[modsledr]

Looks good Neil...Nice work!!