BOOST-IT FUEL SYSTEMS

[NM]

So, trying to understand this fuel system. Is the flow sequence as follows?.....Tank, pump,OEM fuel rail, Aux injectors, and then a fuel regulator with a return to tank?

That is exactly how I have been doing the Nytro's. You could run it through either rail first as long as all the fittings were big enough for adequate supply. I ran fuel through the extra injector rail first on my Apex because I have the stock inlet fitting on the stock rail.

 

[Hornet]

Gotcha. Thats what I thought. Found this fuel reg that would work. It has an in and an out. It can be referenced to boost at a 1:1 ratio but you would leave that disconnected so it doesn't function as a rising rate regulator.

http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/regulators/efi-regulators/13105-compact-efi-regulator/

 

[NM]

Gotcha. Thats what I thought. Found this fuel reg that would work. It has an in and an out. It can be referenced to boost at a 1:1 ratio but you would leave that disconnected so it doesn't function as a rising rate regulator.

http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/regulators/efi-regulators/13105-compact-efi-regulator/

You need a rising rate regulator for boosted applications. The reason for a rising rate regulator is because the boost pressure against the injector nozzle actually lowers effective pressure at the tip of the injector. So by increasing pressure at 1:1, you actually maintain fuel pressure at the injector nozzle. If you go beyond 1:1 to a 2 or 3 or higher to 1 ratio, then you actually increase fuel pressure at the injector nozzle for every pound of boost.
So you definately do need a boost referenced 1:1 regulator with this system.

NM

 

[BBNytro]

I am using a aeromotive 13301 on my mcx it works sweet. Hey Neil how well do you think your system will work on a PL 1200 Doo?? Want to throw away the RB3.

 

[NM]

I am using a aeromotive 13301 on my mcx it works sweet. Hey Neil how well do you think your system will work on a PL 1200 Doo?? Want to throw away the RB3.

Well I put one on a 1200MCX Doo and I have another guy going to do the same, so I guess we will find out soon enough how the Doo likes it.

I tell people this...It was tested on a Nytro, and I know it works unreal, so I would think it should work the same on any 4 stroke. I have not tested on anything else, so I can't say for sure that it will work.
You have to remember that this is an extra injector controller, and only adds fuel when boost comes on. It starts to add fuel when you tell it to, and it adds how much you tell it to.. I think anyone that can spell turbo could tune this system.
I looked at the PL air box and it looks like my fuel bosses would weld right on to the intake runners which would be perfect for fuel atomization.
Bring me the sled...I will put a kit on and you can see how it works. The first guy that brings me a kit I have never done gets the labour for free.
I have done alot of Alpine, a MCX Doo, Powderlites Nytro, and have some guys testing on Northwest (Ulmer now) MCX Apex, and a few custom one off Nytro's.

 

[NM]

I am using a aeromotive 13301 on my mcx it works sweet. Hey Neil how well do you think your system will work on a PL 1200 Doo?? Want to throw away the RB3.

I would use 450 cc injectors as extra injectors. The MCX uses 350 cc injectors from what I can tell, but there kit is rated at 240 hp or so.

 

[NM]

Will there be 450 cc injectors for the smaller bosses?

I will have 315, 380, and 450 cc for the smaller bosses.

 

[EZmoney]

Can i take your Apex for a pull up the Monster to see what i think of the fuel system buddy?

 

[NM]

Can i take your Apex for a pull up the Monster to see what i think of the fuel system buddy?

Ummm uhhhh sh sh sure i guess. Only if there is 3 ft of fresh though.

 

[Mountaintech]

Ummm uhhhh sh sh sure i guess. Only if there is 3 ft of fresh though.

I was standing in almost 3 ft of fresh today. That was in the snopark that had already been plowed once. The winter has started here hopefully.

 

[Hornet]

I will have 315, 380, and 450 cc for the smaller bosses.

Which one of these sizes would be suitable for a Nytro (as aux injectors) staying under 17lbs? I'm thinking the 380cc?

 

[NM]

Which one of these sizes would be suitable for a Nytro (as aux injectors) staying under 17lbs? I'm thinking the 380cc?

The 380's would be good for about 50 hp per, and the 450's about 60 hp per injector.
This is using 43.5 PSI fuel pressure and 80% duty cycle. You could push up the duty cycle if you had to but then you start to lose a bit of injector efficiency.
I'm sure we have run our Apex injectors at 100% duty cycle for 4 years trying to make enough power.
So assuming the Nytro makes about 140 hp stock, the 380's would be good to around 290-300 hp, which would be perfect for 18 lbs boost or less.

 

[NM]

Ok here is the harsh reality for all the Powderlite, Alpine, and early Impulse Nytro owners.
If your sled is running 450 cc injectors in place of the stock injectors, then you only have enough fuel for 220 horsepower.
Don't believe it? Seen bigger numbers on a dyno?

The sled will make more power for a few seconds, but will quickly drop off and go lean, even with more fuel pressure.

Here is some info for everyone. What is everyone using for injectors this year?

Impulse Nytro 750 cc
Powderlites 1200 Doo 700cc
Hurricane standalone 1000cc
OSP standalone 1000cc
See a pattern here?
We proved last year when lake racing at elevation that after 8-10 seconds, a Nytro with 450 cc injectors at 15 lbs boost would go lean right off the guage and fall flat...every time! We tried 5 different sleds and they all did it, even with all fuel settings set as high as they would go.
Even a MCX 240 kit runs enough fuel to support around 270 hp? Know how? Extra injectors.
So if you have one of the first 3 sleds I mentioned...welcome to the 220 hp club! No wonder your buddy with his 240 hp MCX kit was handing it to you.

 

[Lococoin]

The 380's would be good for about 50 hp per, and the 450's about 60 hp per injector.
This is using 43.5 PSI fuel pressure and 80% duty cycle. You could push up the duty cycle if you had to but then you start to lose a bit of injector efficiency.
I'm sure we have run our Apex injectors at 100% duty cycle for 4 years trying to make enough power.
So assuming the Nytro makes about 140 hp stock, the 380's would be good to around 290-300 hp, which would be perfect for 18 lbs boost or less.

Any disadvantage with going with the 450's at lower boost? Harder to tune at lower duty cycle perhaps?

Thanks

 

[t_thall]

I have 450's in my custom front mount (its a free flowing setup - tube header, 2860rs w/ tial housing, 11x11x3 intercooler core, and head porting) and it can go way richer than i need with 15psi at 1200ft???

 

[NM]

Any disadvantage with going with the 450's at lower boost? Harder to tune at lower duty cycle perhaps?

Thanks

A bigger injector is always harder to tune when you just need a small fuel supply. In a boosted application it does not apply so much because of the accelerated air flow.
For example a small 4 cylinder car naturally aspirated will use about a 300 cc injector, but when the same motor is turbo charged, they use a 450 cc or bigger injector, and you definately notice a driveability change (not so smooth) pre boost. We have noticed this in the Neon SRT4's and the Caliber SRT4's
I think for a sled application you would not notice much difference. My sled was very smooth all the way through.

 

[NM]

I have 450's in my custom front mount (its a free flowing setup - tube header, 2860rs w/ tial housing, 11x11x3 intercooler core, and head porting) and it can go way richer than i need with 15psi at 1200ft???

I should have been more specific. I was referring to a mountain application where the motor is heavily loaded.
How much fuel pressure do you run? What regulator?

If you put your setup on a dyno at 15 lbs and loaded it hard, I guarantee you it would go lean.

I compare it to hooking a trailer on a truck...you are going down the same road at the same speed, but using way more fuel. It's all load. Bigger trailer, more load, more fuel. No difference in speed.
I hope this helps.

 

[NM]

I should have been more specific. I was referring to a mountain application where the motor is heavily loaded.
How much fuel pressure do you run? What regulator?

If you put your setup on a dyno at 15 lbs and loaded it hard, I guarantee you it would go lean.

I compare it to hooking a trailer on a truck...you are going down the same road at the same speed, but using way more fuel. It's all load. Bigger trailer, more load, more fuel. No difference in speed.
I hope this helps.

I should have added that this is why the RapidBike is so inconsistent. It can not adapt load changes to fueling changes. If you rode it in the same conditions all of the time then it would probably work just fine.
With my box it is just a simple turn of a dial to add or take fuel away for the days conditions, and it only takes a few seconds.

 

[t_thall]

I should have been more specific. I was referring to a mountain application where the motor is heavily loaded.
How much fuel pressure do you run? What regulator?

If you put your setup on a dyno at 15 lbs and loaded it hard, I guarantee you it would go lean.

I compare it to hooking a trailer on a truck...you are going down the same road at the same speed, but using way more fuel. It's all load. Bigger trailer, more load, more fuel. No difference in speed.
I hope this helps.

I run an aeromotive 1:1 @ 55 psi. It should be loaded pretty hard when its wide open pulling all the weight it will pull, it is loaded for shorter periods though. I am still interested in this system as it would also offer better atomization and cooler charge temps with the injector farther up the runner, I still like the timing control on my rapid bike though. Has anyone tried running just the timing from the rapid bike yet? I guess you could just zero out all of the rapid bike fuel map?

 

[NM]

I just wanted to let people know that I only have 2 Nytro fuel controllers left in stock. I will not have any more stock until Nov 12th, and wont be shipping until the 15th. Sales have exceeded my expectations, and my supplier is working as fast as they can to get me more product. I have sold over 30 kits so far, and the list is long for the speculators who want to see it on the snow first, which is ok too.
If anyone wants one before the end of Nov, then let me know ASAP so I can put a name on one. I may require partial payment to secure they kit, as I have already had a few "I will take one" guys back out, and caused me to lose a sale to someone else.
Sorry I was late on getting back to all of the emails and PM's from last night, I was helping Render install his Nytro kit. Pics attached.
Also a few more Alpine Intercooler's ready to go to the welder.