Be prepared - Survival Overnight on the Mountain

[dreams]

A snow cave will be right around freezing, 32F 0C. You don't want it to be much warmer or it will melt! So if you have gear that you can be comfortable in at that temp. than the snow cave will be great. It will get you out of the wind which could be huge. And if you are not rubbing against the ceiling there should be no falling snow, so you might be drier as well.
You can make a snow cave into a drifted area on a side of a hill, dig a hole horizontally into the drift then dig up to make your cave. It is best to have the door down low the cold air doesn't flow in. Just deep snow on flat ground is not the best, at least here in northern Canada the snow is too light. You can build a quincey. Shovel the snow out of an area then shovel snow back in and make a huge mound. Disturbing the snow will make it setup. Wait for 30 to 60 minutes and down low dig in your door, then hollow out your mound, if you push small sticks in from the outside (about 4 to 6 inches long) you will know when to stop as you hit the end of a stick. This disturbed snow will setup and be quite strong. We have climbed up and stood on top of the quincey the next morning after we slept it it (it's too much work to risk wreaking it when you need it) and it did not cave in, it was a 4 inch thick snow dome 9 feet across and held us up.
You can use a pack etc. to block the door to help keep the cold out. The ceiling will get a little wet, melty, icy as the temp gets a little above freezing, if its a smooth dome shouldn't drip much. It was this temp in our quincey and it was -40 outside.

 

[Donm]

Carry extra and wear wool socks now.. learned that the hard way of getting your feet wet and the crappy blend socks would not keep you warm when wet.

We carry several of the cheap space blankets, but also the better grade ones (like 9 bucks) as well as a disposable sleeping bags ($19)... and SPOT. Our feeling is we will wrap up and save our energy for the rescue... looking for firewood in deep snow burns up too much of your energy.

We have fire starting capabilities but look at it as a second place option... the plan is to build a shelter (snow cave or tree well), wrap up, hit the help button on SPOT (knowing any rescue will probably be by buddies) and wait.

I have also thought of having a blow up doll to keep me company but decided against it as it would take a lot of energy to blow her up, and the "skin to skin" thing might cause my parts to freeze to her... and then people would think I am and people would

I snorted my coffee reading this

 

[Moman]

Ya three of us had to spend the night last december, we were in one of those areas where you ride along a ridge for a ways to access another bowl. When we climbed up to the ridge to leave we found out that the visibility was down to nil and getting worse, also we only had about half an hour of daylight left. Knowing the ridge was impassable in these conditions we dropped back down below the tree line. (The ridege was the only way back) big lesson here was pay attention to the changing weather conditions and consider how they are going to affect the way back, in this case an easy ridge ride turned into a nearly impassable route. (Cornice on one side, howling wind so you get cold real quick and really disorienting) Had we left half an hour earlyer we would have gone home that night. We were somewhat prepared otherwise as we did get phone call out (keep the wife's from worrying) we had good fire starters so that wasn't a problem but I'll deffinitly agree that you go through a ton of wood and our three foldable saws were all in pretty rough shape by the end.

 

[Jaynelson]

Not to sound pompous, but it sounds as though many of these situations would have been avoidable altogether by knowing the area you are riding in more thoroughly, or making decisions on what area to ride that are appropriate to conditions. Better to be proactive than reactive. Having stuff to spend the night is a great idea, trying really hard to never use that stuff is a better idea.

This is not directed at anyone in particular and not meant to offend. Hind sight from the sidelines is always 20/20.

 

[Slednoggin23]

This thing is awesome

http://www.biolitestove.com/campstove/camp-overview/features/

This right here! I LOVE this thing! Took it camping and ended up using it for morning coffee because it was faster than the stove or campfire.
About the size of a 1L nalgene water bottle - weighs just under 2 lbs - uses sticks and twigs and will boil water in under 5 min. PLUS it'll charge your phone enough to make emergency calls!

I got one of these at the beginning of summer. I was skeptical at first but after the first fire I built with it I was amazed. I have taken it camping, boating, ATV'ing, hunting and on pack trips. It has worked great and will make coffee in under ten minutes at 12000'. I have used it to keep my GPS and cell phone charged. I charged the battery on it prior to first use and haven't charged it since. I have made dozens of fires in it and it takes a lot of heat to keep charged and charge externally. I have a place for it to ride under my hood.

This unit can be used by itself or as a fire starter. By that I mean gather a lot of wood for a big fire then get a fire started in the Biostove and then pour it on to a big pile of wood and it will take off really fast.

 

[nuggetau]

I got one of these at the beginning of summer. I was skeptical at first but after the first fire I built with it I was amazed. I have taken it camping, boating, ATV'ing, hunting and on pack trips. It has worked great and will make coffee in under ten minutes at 12000'. I have used it to keep my GPS and cell phone charged. I charged the battery on it prior to first use and haven't charged it since. I have made dozens of fires in it and it takes a lot of heat to keep charged and charge externally. I have a place for it to ride under my hood.

This unit can be used by itself or as a fire starter. By that I mean gather a lot of wood for a big fire then get a fire started in the Biostove and then pour it on to a big pile of wood and it will take off really fast.

Do the sides put off significant heat? For instance if you were to prop up sticks against the outside rim would it generate enough heat to dry gloves and socks laying on the sticks?

 

[nuggetau]

This might be a stupid question, but I'm gonna ask anyway.
Is it necessary to build a fire if you have a way to make shelter and get some insulation between your body and the snow? I'm thinking, worst case, a shelter half or tarp and sleeping pad or hammock. Maybe dig a trench to block the wind, tarp to block falling snow...
My thinking here is to have a decent sleeping bag, good gear, (Klim or whatever) ect. instead of going to the effort of building a fire?

Thoughts?

It isn't necessary to have fire if:

You and your clothing are dry. In survival situations we often overheat (sweat) trying to self rescue and your base layer gets wet, this is one of the biggest mistakes you can make!

You can build an insulated shelter(snow cave, igloo, etc.).

You have enough liquid to stay hydrated until rescue.

You can not underestimate the magnificent moral boost it is to be able to warm your hands/feet and have a warm drink!

 

[snowfreak81]

My sled broke down in the trees on a major powder day. Snow was so deep, doubling out was impossible on big climbs. I had to walk up the huge climbs in waist deep powder. Exhausting. By the time we reach the back bowl it was nearly dark and a full on blizzard. We could not see 5 feet in front of us. It was so bad and I was so exhausted we had to make shelter.




How were you trying to double? One guy on the seat? If you have one guy on each side standing on the running board and each hold an end of the handle bar and the mtn strap in the middle you'd be surprised what you can climb with a little practice. I have found over the years of sled skiing in the bc coast range that as long as I can put a track up something solo and then ride back down to pack it we can usually make it up double. Some call it tandem, some "canadian style". Whatever you want to call it it is a good skill to have in a pinch and worth a little practice, you'll be surprised what you can climb with this method especially when both riders have done it a bit. Also, if you cant quite make a climb in this method at least one guy can easily jump off as high as you can reasonable get and minimize the hike.

Challenge your buddies to a tandem hillclimb, if nothing else its worth a laugh and might make a big difference one day.

Good call on the tandem ride! It has saved us the long climbs out of a bowl in the past! Go as far as you can tandem walk the rest take turns walking at each climb to save energy! Goes a long ways

 

[Slednoggin23]

Do the sides put off significant heat? For instance if you were to prop up sticks against the outside rim would it generate enough heat to dry gloves and socks laying on the sticks?

The mesh sides do get really hot and would dry objects at a safe distance. It may take awhile as most of the heat will rise. For best results it would be best to get the item you wanted to dry out up off the ground at a safe distance from above the rim.

In a survival situation you could gather wood for a normal fire, which is pretty hard to start in cold weather, then start a fire in the biostove and use its hot burning coals to start the larger fire. I have been able to get a fire started in the Biostove at 10*F this hunting season. It goes through small twigs and kindling pretty quick especially on hi. I have burned wood up to one inch in diameter but still needs twigs to burn efficiently.

 

[SRXSRULE]

Not to sound pompous, but it sounds as though many of these situations would have been avoidable altogether by knowing the area you are riding in more thoroughly, or making decisions on what area to ride that are appropriate to conditions. Better to be proactive than reactive. Having stuff to spend the night is a great idea, trying really hard to never use that stuff is a better idea.

This is not directed at anyone in particular and not meant to offend. Hind sight from the sidelines is always 20/20.

This is very true. The time I spent out was with 3 other guys. Between the 4 of us I would guess we had about 100 years of ridding experience. We knew exactly where we were at (we all had GPS units) and we had been in the area many times. We may have been a little too confident. There wasn't any one choice we made but a series of choices that slowly put us in a situation we couldn't get out of.

We now pay more attention to the Topo detail on our GPS and try and steer clear of the super tight trees you have to sometimes CUT your way through. Eric

 

[macer_81]

I can personally say carry as much survival gear as as possible. My dad hit a try last season and punctured his lung. Spent nine hours waiting for rescue. Fire was one thing that saved his life. Without a saw and a way to start it he would have have not made it. I highly recommend bring some hard alcohol like vodka. It works great as a fire starter burns longer than gas and made light work of it. I will always have a small bottle with me for that only. Trust me when its life or death a quick fire eases the mind and lets you concentrate onore important things. Just my two cents be safe!

Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Jaynelson]

This is very true. The time I spent out was with 3 other guys. Between the 4 of us I would guess we had about 100 years of ridding experience. We knew exactly where we were at (we all had GPS units) and we had been in the area many times. We may have been a little too confident.

Totally, it's easy to do. And the more you go places the more you get comfortable with them...even if those places are very remote with sketchy access. Sometimes you really don't consider how exposed you are until things start going sideways....then it's like, oh crap, we've really put ourselves out here. Been there, just thankfully hasn't resulted in a worthwhile story.

 

[chicomecha]

I wish more riders knew about ham radio. I carry a radio that can hit any number of repeater towers, and at the other end is usually someone involved in Search and Rescue, as that is the system they typically use and maintain. You can talk between riders if you get separated, and call out if in trouble. My radio also has a function that turns it into a beacon if it hears a certain tone (from SAR), even if I can't key up, a poor-man's Spot.

It does take a license, but the exams are easy, and no Morse code, and local ham clubs have regular testing dates. I carry my radio and spare battery in a front pack on my body.

 

[Matte Murder]

Really good thread. I carry a pretty extensive first aid kit which no one has mentioned. Carried it for 3 years and have never really needed it so there is always the thought to leave it in the trailer. Man I would be sick if I needed it and didn't have it, especially with my crew. I have a decent amount of survival gear with 3 ways to start a fire, tampons(for dipping gas out of the sleds fuel tank), 2 bigger space blankets, high calorie snacks, wool socks and top, wipes, 2 saws. All of this stuff weighs about 10-12lbs. Going to add a biolite stove and waterproof down mittens this year. Also going to add 300' of mule tape and two roler carabiners for sled rescue. I carry as much as I can in my avy vest but the first aid stuff goes on the sled.

 

[Suprx125]

^^Tampons! Lol, that's actually a really good idea! Hmm. Mule tape is great! I have a strap with two carabiners on it that I use for a two strap. First time I had it in the sled it was used to rescue a sled on which the clutch came apart.

 

[mtsummitx]

Because of this thread I got thinking more serious about overnight survival. We have always carried folding saws and lighters but that is about it. I typically ride with my mom and dad, and my 12 year old son. Usually my dad and I carried this stuff thinking the other 2 didn't need to because they were with us. Well, after reading this thread I got to thinking more about axes for one thing, and that everyone of us should have survival gear because you never know what may happen that could separate anyone of us from the rest. So I went shopping today and got enough stuff for everyone of us to have our own overnight survival kit with us. Here is what I got.

4-SOL survival blankets
4-53piece Lifeline first aid kits
4-Firestarter/Tinder kits in case lighters fail (have flint and firestarter pellets in them)
A lot More lighters
Folding saws (for those that didn't have)
20ft (5ft each kit) small dia. clear vinyl tubing to dip gas from tank to help start fire if needed.
4-Bear Grylls survival axe.

Here is what else we carry, many pocket knives, my boy has 2 in his gear, I think I have 3 or 4 knives between in my bibs, coat and pack. We also have at least one shovel per person, several of us have 2 (1 on sled and 1 in pack), as well as avalanche gear. I also pack along several sports drinks, bottles of water, and a bunch of granola bars.

Now about the axes I bought, I looked at the ones the OP had pictures of and I personally did not like them. The handles were hollow plastic all the way up to where it molds around the blade. I felt this left for the possibility of it breaking when striking something, and in a survival situation in the mountains dead middle of winter, I really didn't think that was the greatest design. So I bought the heavier duty model, which is actually one piece metal head and handle, handle is covered by plastic grip sleeves. This unit does weigh a little more, and cost a little more, but you aint gonna break it. Now that we pack all this stuff around, I sure hope we never have to use it!!! Thanks to the OP for sharing what you learned.

 

[Powderhound]

My sled broke down in the trees on a major powder day. Snow was so deep, doubling out was impossible on big climbs. I had to walk up the huge climbs in waist deep powder. Exhausting. By the time we reach the back bowl it was nearly dark and a full on blizzard. We could not see 5 feet in front of us. It was so bad and I was so exhausted we had to make shelter.




How were you trying to double? One guy on the seat? If you have one guy on each side standing on the running board and each hold an end of the handle bar and the mtn strap in the middle you'd be surprised what you can climb with a little practice. I have found over the years of sled skiing in the bc coast range that as long as I can put a track up something solo and then ride back down to pack it we can usually make it up double. Some call it tandem, some "canadian style". Whatever you want to call it it is a good skill to have in a pinch and worth a little practice, you'll be surprised what you can climb with this method especially when both riders have done it a bit. Also, if you cant quite make a climb in this method at least one guy can easily jump off as high as you can reasonable get and minimize the hike.

Challenge your buddies to a tandem hillclimb, if nothing else its worth a laugh and might make a big difference one day.

I carry a four foot rope and two large carabiners. You loop around the stearing post, or mountain bar. You stand behind the driver and hang onto the carabiners in each hand. That way you are not hanging on to the driver you hang on to the sled. You can stand up and help lean. We have used this. Doubling up is 10 times easier.

 

[Powderhound]

I got one of these at the beginning of summer. I was skeptical at first but after the first fire I built with it I was amazed. I have taken it camping, boating, ATV'ing, hunting and on pack trips. It has worked great and will make coffee in under ten minutes at 12000'. I have used it to keep my GPS and cell phone charged. I charged the battery on it prior to first use and haven't charged it since. I have made dozens of fires in it and it takes a lot of heat to keep charged and charge externally. I have a place for it to ride under my hood.

This unit can be used by itself or as a fire starter. By that I mean gather a lot of wood for a big fire then get a fire started in the Biostove and then pour it on to a big pile of wood and it will take off really fast.

Does it charge it's battery as the fire burns?

 

[allied1]

It isn't necessary to have fire if:

You and your clothing are dry. In survival situations we often overheat (sweat) trying to self rescue and your base layer gets wet, this is one of the biggest mistakes you can make!

You can build an insulated shelter(snow cave, igloo, etc.).

You have enough liquid to stay hydrated until rescue.

You can not underestimate the magnificent moral boost it is to be able to warm your hands/feet and have a warm drink!

Bring a couple candles AND fire starter then weigh your options depending upon the scenario. Either way, fire is GOOD!

 

[Slednoggin23]

Does it charge it's battery as the fire burns?

Yes it uses the heat from the fire and converts it to electricity. The hotter the fire the more it charges. Up to 5 watts I think.