Baker/grooming question

[deepdiver]

NOw theres an idea...a new parking lot at the base of Peanut. I think I have to have some empathy (not much though) the poster uses Vmax600 as his username. Is that what you ride Vmax??? I had one of those beasts..with the pogo front suspension and 3 inches of rear travel..well maybe 4 on a good day. Metal skis on it still also? Those old yamahas needed a grass back yard to run smoth and a 1/4 mile parking lot to turn in.

Now Vmax...look at the road difference between other areas...where there are corners there are bumps..where the straights are longer it is smoother. If you travel around much all folks here will understand the differences between good and not so goo grooming. Here in WA there are limited access routes to popular areas. We only have one route up to many areas..there is not even much for off terrain routes into Baker..ther trees grow too fast.

In McCall ID for example there are many ways and tons of play areas. There you wll find some of the best grooming on the Planet IMHO!
We are more...limited in off trail terrain.

Vmax is right though in only one regard...hammering the throttle coming out of a corner does dig a ditch....I have been very guilty of this myself.

Now Vmax...if you are 53 as your profile states I would think you would have learned that a flamming hot post wont get many people to side with you and that goes for any subject manner. I am not trying to fire you up just some useful feedback. You actually ahd a few valid points...but then came the threats and the bragging about your income. That was down right fricken funny.The question is though how big is your...oh never mind. If you need more help with anything a fellow by the name of WMC here can assist you, feel free to Pm him as he is the resident expert on almost every issue.

 

[no_uh]

No, and that's all I was really wondering... Are all snopark trails like Baker/Schreiber? However, I think you are also confusing me with the other poster who snowboards and blames longtracks for the bumps.

 

[Dustin_R]

The woops are designed to keep the number of riders down, if it was a smooth ride in = more people on the hill. You could always take the SECRET way in. I mean there's only one way in.

Ssshhh

 

[Kordero]

no_uh,

Not all trails are like the Schreiber's Meadow trails. If that is where you like to ride try and ride during the week and match it to the scheduled groomer day. Weekends are very busy and will almost always be a death march of whoops 6 miles up and back. It is what it is.

 

[Bakerider]

Lets face the FACTS here people...Many of you are building the exact case that uh_no is talking about. Limited access, 19 miles of road/trail (if that...), etc..etc...etc. Guess what, the groomer gets PAID no matter if he does a GOOD JOB or a LOWSY job. That road should be like a freeway up there with the tiny amount of grooming area there is. I ride Baker at all times of the week and weekends and the road never seems to change. I have ridden directly behind the groomer on multiple occassions and the ONLY thing that is being accomplished is pulling loose snow into the holes so that they can be rutted out as soon as the first 5 sleds go over them. The grooming machines have blades and tillers that are very effective when used (key word "used"). I don't know if the groomer doesn't want to "wear and tear" the equipment or what the deal is but it isn't being done right! I am sick of reading excuses or that this is a "touchy" subject or if it means so much to you, you should attend the groomer meetings. How about if you are accepting money from the state's registration taxes and donated funds from The Northwest Glacier Cruisers Snowmobile Club (which by the way, I am willing to bet money that MOST people that ride at Baker don't even contribute to this fund) to do a job, do it right or lets find a groomer that will!

Take the trails outside of Cle Elum, Peoh Point area...101 miles of trail systems in that area. The groomer stays on it and keeps them very nice. You want to talk about HIGHLY traveled roads that aren't at high elevations. There you go, prime example. Yes, the WSSA allots greater sums of monies to the higher traveled areas, that's why people need to donate towards the Baker grooming fund. Enough said, the fact of the matter is that we are paying for a service, a very expensive service, with mediocre workmanship as a result. I think the Friday and Monday grooming idea is perfect...Clean it up before the weekend and smooth er out after the chaos.

 

[vmax600]

The woops are designed to keep the number of riders down, if it was a smooth ride in = more people on the hill. You could always take the SECRET way in. I mean there's only one way in.

Yes, I know the different ways in...and I am a lucky sob. 45 minutes to the trailhead from home or work, it's my freakin' back yard. To have been able to spend the last 40+ years hiking/climbing/snowboarding and now snowmobiling in it makes me most blessed.

 

[pjohnson8]

Grooming

I agree with Bakerider. When the questions have been brought up to NWGC folks about the groomer, they are quick to say "that is a touchy subject". The groomer for the area is not doing it as a volunteer , he is under contract. The expectation is that the roads are maintained well. How many of you ride out of Greenwater? The snowpark there is only at 2500' and their trails are in good shape 9 times out of 10. That is on the west side of the mountains and has the same weather patterns that Baker gets, usually a little warmer even. It is fine that the trail gets a little beat up during heavy use, but I too have ridden down behind the groomer and you can still feel the same bumps because they have not been grinded down properly.

 

[no_uh]

Lets face the FACTS here people...Many of you are building the exact case that uh_no is talking about. Limited access, 19 miles of road/trail (if that...), etc..etc...etc. Guess what, the groomer gets PAID no matter if he does a GOOD JOB or a LOWSY job. That road should be like a freeway up there with the tiny amount of grooming area there is. I ride Baker at all times of the week and weekends and the road never seems to change. I have ridden directly behind the groomer on multiple occassions and the ONLY thing that is being accomplished is pulling loose snow into the holes so that they can be rutted out as soon as the first 5 sleds go over them. The grooming machines have blades and tillers that are very effective when used (key word "used"). I don't know if the groomer doesn't want to "wear and tear" the equipment or what the deal is but it isn't being done right! I am sick of reading excuses or that this is a "touchy" subject or if it means so much to you, you should attend the groomer meetings. How about if you are accepting money from the state's registration taxes and donated funds from The Northwest Glacier Cruisers Snowmobile Club (which by the way, I am willing to bet money that MOST people that ride at Baker don't even contribute to this fund) to do a job, do it right or lets find a groomer that will!

Take the trails outside of Cle Elum, Peoh Point area...101 miles of trail systems in that area. The groomer stays on it and keeps them very nice. You want to talk about HIGHLY traveled roads that aren't at high elevations. There you go, prime example. Yes, the WSSA allots greater sums of monies to the higher traveled areas, that's why people need to donate towards the Baker grooming fund. Enough said, the fact of the matter is that we are paying for a service, a very expensive service, with mediocre workmanship as a result. I think the Friday and Monday grooming idea is perfect...Clean it up before the weekend and smooth er out after the chaos.

Seriously, I know this is a long thread, and it's hard to keep track of who said what, but reading comprehension is lost on some of you.

Nowhere in this thread have I advocated limited access or anything like that. If you go back and look at my posts, most are advocating the exact opposite. The only one on this thread who could potentially be advocating limited access is VMAX600.

All I wanted to know was if the trail was always that bumpy and if all sno-parks in WA State are like that as well. Thank you to those of you who answered those questions.

 

[pjohnson8]

agreed

No..Uh, you are right. You are not the one pushing for limited access and I did not agree with Bakerider on that matter.

 

[CascadeMK]

The trail is not always that bad. Been up there several times when the ride was reasonable on the way in...Friday nite was horrible. And I've got a bone to pick! Trails only get that way from deep lug machines using indiscriminate throttle. I don't ride to go do 4 miles of whoops, I access that area to snowboard in the wintertime. I have been on several trails in the immediate area that have not been like this, why? It can only be the riders on it. This area is a multi-use area, and I can truly see why other backcountry users think ugly snowmobiler thoughts. I sure as hell had 'em! If we keep treating this area in this manner, we will lose it. Period. Personally, I could care less what anyone does in that area once up there. Keep the road in passable shape, though, so others can use it and not complain.
Now I am sure someone is going to say "sack up" or "go buy a machine with long travel suspension" or some other derogatory thing. To you I say, "Go hang your arrogant selfish head in shame, and think of others." I CAN do something about this. I vote, I have disposable income, and I know who to call. And you could see me on the wrong side of the table on access issues into Baker. Not that I want to...now lets start policing each other!

I know it seems like deep lug and throttle causes whoops but I'm afraid that's just not the case. It's simply the conditions combine with the bounce of the sleds. If you got every sled on the trail to go at a steady, fast speed you'd only get whoops slightly farther apart. As for lugs and peeling out, not the slightest to do with it...back in michigan, with everyone riding 3/4 or 1.25 121" tracks you get whoops twice as deep and much closer together. It's a matter of frequent and thorough grooming that makes for a smooth trail and even that will get whooped by end of day on an average traffic day. Just my two cents. No sense in hating on riders and groomers. That's silly.

 

[vmax600]

Bakerider..

Got contact info for the Glacier Cruisers club? If joining the club and donating to the fund helps, I'll get on it. Thanks.

BTW I do not advocate limited access, just saying it could happen and why. Being on both sides of the subject (as a rock climber I've seen more of it) makes you think about it more.

 

[ruffryder]

let your fingers do the walking..

http://www.northwestglaciercruisers.com/


As to the trail.. Baker is a beast, most of the trail is south facing, meaning it gets warm and slushy during the day, instead of staying nice and cold. Also, lots of people ride there compared to other areas.

I assume you have tabs on your sled??

 

[Bakerider]

No_uh I apologize for making it sound like you were the instigator here. I agree with your concerns about the condition of roads and grooming so I was just adding to your post.

 

[Bakerider]

I am an advocate for donating to the grooming of Baker for sure. But throwing money at a cause that isn't working doesn't exactly give you the warm and fuzzies. According to the groomers schedule it says that it gets done three times a week? That is just wasting valuable money when a Friday and Monday schedule would work just fine if in fact the job is done with some effort. There is no doubt it is difficult to keep up with the changing conditions and so on, but causing damage to your $10000 and up snowmobiles riding on a "funded groomed trail" is unacceptable. I don't want to beat a dead horse here, or trash talk groomers, because I would love to shake the hands of many groomers out there for the outstanding job they do, but I am speaking for A LOT of people on this one and something needs to change.

 

[tree-magnet]

We went to salmon la sack on friday, the parking lots were packed, every snopark was full from stampede to salmon. The trails were in very good shape, Ton of traffic on them. I have also followed the groomer down out of baker, it is still rough right behind him. We can't compare the grooming 20 years to today, the newer equipment is much more superior then it ever was back then. Unless his equipment is vintage. Its starting to sound like it is good ol boys club to me. Have we ever used a different grooming company? Someone must have some info on this. Over east they always groom at night after the snow has started to firm back up. I've seen baker groomed in the late afternoon. I don't think anyone is looking for a pissing match here just some answers.

 

[tar]

Go to the winter recreation web site,find your area, at the bottom of the page you can e-mail the people that make the decisions. Complaining on snowest will do nothing to improve the grooming.

Maybe someone can put up a link.

Tar

 

[drewdoo]

There sure are a lot of so called experts on grooming on here. Did u know that the grooming contract in an area is paid by miles groomed, so Mt Baker gets one of the smallest contracts in the state. Between Anderson/Watson, Segelsen, Finney Creek and Schrieber's Meadow total 96 miles.We go throught the same thing every year, do you remember just three years ago how bad the road was. I think the current groomer we have has been doing a great job, yes he was on vacation last week so it was alittle rough. But Monday was like a corduroy carpet.

 

[_AJ_]

Another thing to consider is how much more fuel it takes at Baker to push that wet heavy snow around after a heavy snowfall. Spending time to fill in the creek and maintaining the snow bridge after the heavy rains to get you guys up early takes away from the overall fuel budget. May sound like a minor issue, but you all know how much snow Baker can get in a night. It's a double edged sword. Groom heavy early and run out of money long before spring riding or try to balance it out best ya can. Can't please all the people all the time.

 

[THEDICK]

Go to the winter recreation web site,find your area, at the bottom of the page you can e-mail the people that make the decisions. Complaining on snowest will do nothing to improve the grooming.

Maybe someone can put up a link.

Tar

Here's the link.

http://www.parks.wa.gov/winter/On-Site%20Evaluation%20Form.pdf\

Good points made by Ruffryder, Drewdoo and AJ.
The allotted budget by the mile for this area seams to be a tough one to cover, having to transport the groomer to 4 different locations doesn't help either.

 

[vmax600]

let your fingers do the walking..

http://www.northwestglaciercruisers.com/


I assume you have tabs on your sled??

THX for the link. I've got tabs, parking pass, NW forest pass for the summer, blah blah, I don't just take.