WOW!!!! Thanks everyone so much - this has been a great resource. I am really feeling better about the mountain machines. Will definitely make the trip up to Vail pass and take a look at what everyone has. I am hoping after a couple 2up rides she says - this would be easier with another machine....
Backcountry snowboard access - 2up
- Thread starter RevHortonHeat
- Start date
L
Lushbomb
Moderator: Premium Member
2 machines to get you 20 miles out. then drop one off and start your tandem runs..
as for racks, don't mess with those expensive marketed racks.. go get a atv gun rack and an old snowboard ankle strap and fabricate yourself a solid rack for 20$.. BAM! works like a champ..
those SNOWMOBOARDER .com dudes are not very smart.. 1st time you roll your sled your rack and most likely hood to are gonna rip right off..
mount that isht off the back.. gun rack mounted to back bar/bumper, drill one hole in tunnel to mount your strap and one on top of tunnel for other strap piece..
20$ gets u a solid rack , just remember that after u paid 8 to 10g's for a sled
as for racks, don't mess with those expensive marketed racks.. go get a atv gun rack and an old snowboard ankle strap and fabricate yourself a solid rack for 20$.. BAM! works like a champ..
those SNOWMOBOARDER .com dudes are not very smart.. 1st time you roll your sled your rack and most likely hood to are gonna rip right off..
mount that isht off the back.. gun rack mounted to back bar/bumper, drill one hole in tunnel to mount your strap and one on top of tunnel for other strap piece..
20$ gets u a solid rack , just remember that after u paid 8 to 10g's for a sled
So...8 months or so later I am picking up a sled. '01 Ski-Doo 800 Summit 151 - long story short - a buddy of mine has a place up in Breck and has a couple of machines also, cannot wait for the snow to start to pile up. Again, I am so happy that everyone here was so forthcoming with the knowledge and info.
That will be a good first machine, it will get you where you need to go and teach you that snowmobiling in deep pow is more fun or just as much fun as skiing in it.
Good choice. Long track sled is definately the way to go. One thing is for sure, be prepared to be humbled, getting sled access runs isn't as easy it seems.. That and riding pow on a sled rules. It's often a tough decision to ride the sled down or the board.
All good info, just a bit more on racks.
Knightrider racks in golden are bomber. Pretty expensive, but super good at what they do..
I used falling wedges. It's hard to explain, but it works.
Knightrider racks in golden are bomber. Pretty expensive, but super good at what they do..
I used falling wedges. It's hard to explain, but it works.
I am just going to echo everyone else. Sledders are made out to be a lot of things.
Once you start riding though, you will find out we are all just back country fiends. The terrain you can cover on a sled shames all other modes of winter fun. I skied for 20 years, I don't even think about skiing anymore. Sledding in the powder is 100 times more fun, it is the most fun you can have with clothes on.
Learn to RIDE the sled BEFORE you try riding double or you will spend all of your time stuck and hating it.
Once you start riding though, you will find out we are all just back country fiends. The terrain you can cover on a sled shames all other modes of winter fun. I skied for 20 years, I don't even think about skiing anymore. Sledding in the powder is 100 times more fun, it is the most fun you can have with clothes on.
Learn to RIDE the sled BEFORE you try riding double or you will spend all of your time stuck and hating it.
I'm with Ollie on that one 100%
I bought a sled for access, definitely not to be some douchebag snowmobiler (fat guys who race across lakes & go to bars on sleds) so when I found out sleds would jump & I could work on a hit so much more easily on the sled, or that even on a crappy snow day the sled was fun.... well, it turned me.
A big decision on what sleds you need to get comes down to what terrain you want to access, are you planning on sticking to Vail pass & Corona? Or do you want to go hit real terrain & get the stuff that no-one else is hitting?
If you want to ride VP, you can do it on a 96 phazer 121, if you want to go ride bigger terrain, it take bigger sleds.
My last access only(or mainly) sled was a thundercat 1000 triple that had big power & a big track, it got two people to the top of most things we wanted to hit. If you try to climb a big face 2up with a 600 136 you'll be less than satisfied.
So, where are you & where do you plan to ride?
I started sledding after h8ting lift lines, at first it was only to shuttle, but after I got good on the sled, I rarely bring the board(s) anymore.
If your going to the mountians, you will need a mountian sled...... a trail sled will be useless. 2 up in the mountians would be like 2 up while downhill mountian biking.
If you and the wife can hook-up with 2 sleds(mountian sleds) you will be able to basically get "free" cat/ heli ski lines all day long.
I ride in Golden and Revelstoke, the pow turns I have had while sledding are not available to resort skiiers/boarders( well, I did have a once in a lifetime day in Argentina.... but thats another story)
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Good luck and have some fun out there.
FYI, I have a 2009 summit 800 x 154 with e/s, it gets the job done right. I have 2 knightrider racks mounted and I cant even feel the boards back there....
If your going to the mountians, you will need a mountian sled...... a trail sled will be useless. 2 up in the mountians would be like 2 up while downhill mountian biking.
If you and the wife can hook-up with 2 sleds(mountian sleds) you will be able to basically get "free" cat/ heli ski lines all day long.
I ride in Golden and Revelstoke, the pow turns I have had while sledding are not available to resort skiiers/boarders( well, I did have a once in a lifetime day in Argentina.... but thats another story)
.Good luck and have some fun out there.
FYI, I have a 2009 summit 800 x 154 with e/s, it gets the job done right. I have 2 knightrider racks mounted and I cant even feel the boards back there....
M
mannix
ACCOUNT CLOSED
I bought sleds for access riding last year.
All of the info posted is accurate (save one bit, I've not gotten hooked on sledding).
I started with an 03 Summit 700, 144" track. Before I even skied off it, I realized two things:
1. They're WAY harder to ride than you think.
2. A second sled is mandatory.
I rode initially at an area fairly close to my house; good ski terrain, difficult to access on the sled. At first, I went there just to ride it - going "just for a ride" illustrated the need to learn HOW to ride, AND clarified the "second sled" bit - even early season, the sled took me WAY farther than I wanted to walk out, and getting stuck is guaranteed. Getting unstuck is normally not a problem, but I've not had anything Bad happen yet - roll it down a steep hill, leaving it upside down against a tree, or in a creekbed, or or or - possibilities are endless. Get two, or find other people. I guess if the car is ALWAYS downhill, and you have skis/boards, maybe....but....get two.
I bought a 99 Skidoo Summit 670x for a backup. Both are really solid sleds, both are capable of towing two skiers on groomed runs (Vail Pass in CO). I've not tried much 2-up riding on the 670, but the times we have, it did OK.
They make similar power. Both make just enough. A friend of mine (and the classified ads) scared me away from SkiDoo 800s - virtually all of them had "new motors" or "new pistons" or "needs a....." included. I wanted something reliable, and my friend, a SkiDoo mechanic, recommended "anything but" an 800 (in my price range), and more specifically, a 700 or 670x. I see that you (the OP) bought an 01 800 - same basic sled as my 700, but with the bigger motor. In the words of my mechanic friend "if you HAVE to have an 800, do a top end every 1500 miles." Dunno. I've run across plenty of people who have had good luck with the SkiDoo 800s (pre-"R" motors, 07? and earlier), but it seems that most have had them blow up. Maybe do a top end out of principle? Dunno.
I'm happy with the power, for the most part. Two up on softish run-in trails is tricky; sometimes, more power would likely help - but honestly, I'm pretty sure the 700 (the primary tow-sled) *can* do what I'm asking it to, I'm just not asking right (see "way harder to ride than you think"). I think that more power would make it easier, but watching other, more experienced sled-skiers do their thing, there's a chunk of skill that I've not yet developed that will make the comparative lack of power a non-issue.
I am putting a 156" track on my 700 this fall. I do believe that'll help when the skiing gets really good.
If you're doing it at Vail Pass or Buff Pass, where there are groomed cat-roads in place, a tow rope is easy and works great.
If you're making your own trails, learn how to ride two-up. It is tricky. Burn them in solo. On the steep bits in particular, I've found that it is better to make an "up" path and a "down" path. Seems to stay smoother that way. Use the flattest path to the top possible. Don't stop going uphill, loop around and get back into your track. Speed is your friend. Try to go straight up hills (single-fall-line if possible), leaning with two/sidehilling is tricky. Try to make a path that gives you a good run at the hill.
Racks - I ski. My racks are simple and they work; a 2x4 bolted to the tunnel with two square, coated hooks for hanging ladders on your garage wall. The hooks point "in." There's a bungee cord near the front of the seat, rail to rail. Tip under the cord, tail inside the square hook, short cord tying the tails. I've rolled the sled down a steep hill (four or five barrel rolls) with the skis on, no damage to the skis, they stayed attached. The Cheetah Factory Racing racks look awesome, and I might get a couple this winter, but I was feeling it in my wallet last winter after buying two sleds and all the other junk I did not have.
Ditch the windshield. It WILL break when you roll it, and rolling it is often the fastest way to get unstuck (thanks, Kaleb!).
Carry a spare belt, plugs, etc etc etc. Carry enough junk to stay comfortable overnight.
Beacon/probe/shovel + education.
It is fun. It adds a ton of complexity to a ski day. That said, I skied powder every day last year......well worth the effort, but don't even bring the skis the first couple of times out.
Iain
All of the info posted is accurate (save one bit, I've not gotten hooked on sledding).
I started with an 03 Summit 700, 144" track. Before I even skied off it, I realized two things:
1. They're WAY harder to ride than you think.
2. A second sled is mandatory.
I rode initially at an area fairly close to my house; good ski terrain, difficult to access on the sled. At first, I went there just to ride it - going "just for a ride" illustrated the need to learn HOW to ride, AND clarified the "second sled" bit - even early season, the sled took me WAY farther than I wanted to walk out, and getting stuck is guaranteed. Getting unstuck is normally not a problem, but I've not had anything Bad happen yet - roll it down a steep hill, leaving it upside down against a tree, or in a creekbed, or or or - possibilities are endless. Get two, or find other people. I guess if the car is ALWAYS downhill, and you have skis/boards, maybe....but....get two.
I bought a 99 Skidoo Summit 670x for a backup. Both are really solid sleds, both are capable of towing two skiers on groomed runs (Vail Pass in CO). I've not tried much 2-up riding on the 670, but the times we have, it did OK.
They make similar power. Both make just enough. A friend of mine (and the classified ads) scared me away from SkiDoo 800s - virtually all of them had "new motors" or "new pistons" or "needs a....." included. I wanted something reliable, and my friend, a SkiDoo mechanic, recommended "anything but" an 800 (in my price range), and more specifically, a 700 or 670x. I see that you (the OP) bought an 01 800 - same basic sled as my 700, but with the bigger motor. In the words of my mechanic friend "if you HAVE to have an 800, do a top end every 1500 miles." Dunno. I've run across plenty of people who have had good luck with the SkiDoo 800s (pre-"R" motors, 07? and earlier), but it seems that most have had them blow up. Maybe do a top end out of principle? Dunno.
I'm happy with the power, for the most part. Two up on softish run-in trails is tricky; sometimes, more power would likely help - but honestly, I'm pretty sure the 700 (the primary tow-sled) *can* do what I'm asking it to, I'm just not asking right (see "way harder to ride than you think"). I think that more power would make it easier, but watching other, more experienced sled-skiers do their thing, there's a chunk of skill that I've not yet developed that will make the comparative lack of power a non-issue.
I am putting a 156" track on my 700 this fall. I do believe that'll help when the skiing gets really good.
If you're doing it at Vail Pass or Buff Pass, where there are groomed cat-roads in place, a tow rope is easy and works great.
If you're making your own trails, learn how to ride two-up. It is tricky. Burn them in solo. On the steep bits in particular, I've found that it is better to make an "up" path and a "down" path. Seems to stay smoother that way. Use the flattest path to the top possible. Don't stop going uphill, loop around and get back into your track. Speed is your friend. Try to go straight up hills (single-fall-line if possible), leaning with two/sidehilling is tricky. Try to make a path that gives you a good run at the hill.
Racks - I ski. My racks are simple and they work; a 2x4 bolted to the tunnel with two square, coated hooks for hanging ladders on your garage wall. The hooks point "in." There's a bungee cord near the front of the seat, rail to rail. Tip under the cord, tail inside the square hook, short cord tying the tails. I've rolled the sled down a steep hill (four or five barrel rolls) with the skis on, no damage to the skis, they stayed attached. The Cheetah Factory Racing racks look awesome, and I might get a couple this winter, but I was feeling it in my wallet last winter after buying two sleds and all the other junk I did not have.
Ditch the windshield. It WILL break when you roll it, and rolling it is often the fastest way to get unstuck (thanks, Kaleb!).
Carry a spare belt, plugs, etc etc etc. Carry enough junk to stay comfortable overnight.
Beacon/probe/shovel + education.
It is fun. It adds a ton of complexity to a ski day. That said, I skied powder every day last year......well worth the effort, but don't even bring the skis the first couple of times out.
Iain
If your on ski's get a tow strap, once you lay down a track you can sling the tow strap off the back and pull people, they just knot there polls threw a loop at the end of the rope and hold on, it can be a bit easier and less tiring then riding tandem with somebody who has never rode tandem before.
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All the above info is great. Similar background but I still ski. I roop when its deep and ski when the snow is not over the hood. Sled with the boyz when its deep and ski with the girlfriend when its not.
A CRF www.cheetahfactoryracing.com rack is the way to go to have faster turn-a-rounds.
Get an 800 hundred for sure, you will need it when your new and you will need the power when your learning to ride. Then as you get better you will want the power to get into better areas. I can double my girlfriend most deep places.
Here is a video to explain that you can do both in a day...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6B-BYuj2tU
Here is when it is deep...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOKudbh6_vA
Here is a little about the sled...what to have and get
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td9f4Jc3Bsc
A CRF www.cheetahfactoryracing.com rack is the way to go to have faster turn-a-rounds.
Get an 800 hundred for sure, you will need it when your new and you will need the power when your learning to ride. Then as you get better you will want the power to get into better areas. I can double my girlfriend most deep places.
Here is a video to explain that you can do both in a day...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6B-BYuj2tU
Here is when it is deep...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOKudbh6_vA
Here is a little about the sled...what to have and get
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td9f4Jc3Bsc
Sweet vids Norona!! That is some awesome boondocking/skiing terrain. Come on snow!!!
I use the sleds for access occassionally, but end up sledding alone far more often. It seems like doing laps would be easiest with 4 people and 2 sleds. With just 2 people and 2 sleds you end up shuttling up and down too much and it is kind of a pain. With 4 people you could have two skiing and two shuttling for a couple runs, then switch. The guys shuttling can have fun sledding while the others are skiing. Skiing one at a time probably isn't the best idea due to avy danger. You've gotta keep you eyes on your skiing partner all the time.
I use the sleds for access occassionally, but end up sledding alone far more often. It seems like doing laps would be easiest with 4 people and 2 sleds. With just 2 people and 2 sleds you end up shuttling up and down too much and it is kind of a pain. With 4 people you could have two skiing and two shuttling for a couple runs, then switch. The guys shuttling can have fun sledding while the others are skiing. Skiing one at a time probably isn't the best idea due to avy danger. You've gotta keep you eyes on your skiing partner all the time.
First off, those are some sweet videos, I'm getting flashbacks from last winter.
Second, congrats on the sled RevHortonHeat. My wife and I went through the same decisions 5 years ago. Everybody has great advice. We didn't even take the boards the first couple trips. It is so important to learn about riding the sleds first. I started with an 800 RMK 159 and found a used 600 Arctic Cat for her. The Cat was a good sled for her to learn on and see if she wanted to continue, She was a rookie and needed time on the sled. She needed to learn that the throttle is good, when in doubt throttle out.
Then I picked up an 08 700 RMK and she started riding the 800.We are now riding a couple of 08 700 RMKs with 155 tracks. I agree with keeping the snowboard racks simple, with ATV gun racks and loop a waterski rope onto the back bar for towing. It works good when riding back up the mountain for her to sit in front of me and hang onto the handlebar strap and I stand up behind her.
Second, congrats on the sled RevHortonHeat. My wife and I went through the same decisions 5 years ago. Everybody has great advice. We didn't even take the boards the first couple trips. It is so important to learn about riding the sleds first. I started with an 800 RMK 159 and found a used 600 Arctic Cat for her. The Cat was a good sled for her to learn on and see if she wanted to continue, She was a rookie and needed time on the sled. She needed to learn that the throttle is good, when in doubt throttle out.
Then I picked up an 08 700 RMK and she started riding the 800.We are now riding a couple of 08 700 RMKs with 155 tracks. I agree with keeping the snowboard racks simple, with ATV gun racks and loop a waterski rope onto the back bar for towing. It works good when riding back up the mountain for her to sit in front of me and hang onto the handlebar strap and I stand up behind her.
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Yes - the plan is definitely to get up a few times without the boards and get some time on the sleds. We are north of Denver - a buddy of mine has a place in Breck and a couple of sleds so we'll be up there quite a bit. I am really looking forward to get out there - i have been so burnt out on the resort scene that it was becoming less and less fun each year.
The most important thing about having two sleds is having four people. That way there are always two people skiing together in case of an avalanche.
Get a Cheetah, they only seem expensive until you get one! I did the do-it-yourself setup on my 00 600, and 02 800 and thought it was fine. Once you get the Cheetah (on my 09 154x) and have your gear strapped on solid, out of the way of your feet, you'll wonder what you were thinking. No stopping to re-set your bungees or old rotten snowboard binding straps, you can do a big drop with a proper rack and your board stays where it is supposed to, no rattling. I have a board rack on one side and skis on the other. Also, if you make a poorly thought out ghetto rack, you can easily delaminate your ski/board sidewall, especially if you have lightweight touring gear or a cap board. Feel free to rock the homemade if you ride a NeverSummer though.
IMPORTANT - especially if you've got a signifigant other involved.
Get a Snowbungie. Compared to getting unstuck by hand, it is magic. The quicker and easier you get the missus (or yourself) unstuck, the less you get her frustrated and discouraged. And if she gets discouraged, she'll ease off on the throttle and get stuck more often, causing more frustration, easing more off the throttle, and the circle continues.
IMPORTANT - especially if you've got a signifigant other involved.
Get a Snowbungie. Compared to getting unstuck by hand, it is magic. The quicker and easier you get the missus (or yourself) unstuck, the less you get her frustrated and discouraged. And if she gets discouraged, she'll ease off on the throttle and get stuck more often, causing more frustration, easing more off the throttle, and the circle continues.
L
Lushbomb
Moderator: Premium Member
4 sleds are better than 2 to get ya to the zone for sure.. but then 2 sleds and 4 riders is perfect!!
buying and maintaining sleds is expensive in itself.. don't waist money on expensive ski/board racks.. 40$ i bought atv racks and only used 1 on one side for now.. so.. 20$ rack with the help of some extra board straps..
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buying and maintaining sleds is expensive in itself.. don't waist money on expensive ski/board racks.. 40$ i bought atv racks and only used 1 on one side for now.. so.. 20$ rack with the help of some extra board straps..
L
Lushbomb
Moderator: Premium Member
900 miles last season, multiple roll overs, every condition possible and my homeade rack (done right) is indestructible..
my CFR mounted buddies are a wee bit jelous over how solid my racks are..
not to give CFR a bad rep.. those guys are hella cool and maker a killer product.. i'd rather p[ut the big money into my sled though..
my CFR mounted buddies are a wee bit jelous over how solid my racks are..
not to give CFR a bad rep.. those guys are hella cool and maker a killer product.. i'd rather p[ut the big money into my sled though..
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