Avy Courses...Are They Worth It?
- Thread starter KFD070
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S
snowww1
Well-known member
A common response from students after taking an avalanche class is that it was a real eye opener. They realized some of the things they were doing were correct, but they also realized they were making many mistakes.
I would suggest taking a classroom session and then take a field session with hands-on training in rescue and beacons use. Most people are not very good with beacons and rescue, since they practice only one hour a year. In a real life situation, you do not get a practice run. This is where the training really pays off.
Most of the avalanche fatalities are preventable with proper training, skills and mindset. Mike Duffy
I would suggest taking a classroom session and then take a field session with hands-on training in rescue and beacons use. Most people are not very good with beacons and rescue, since they practice only one hour a year. In a real life situation, you do not get a practice run. This is where the training really pays off.
Most of the avalanche fatalities are preventable with proper training, skills and mindset. Mike Duffy
It sounds as though this topic has been threaded before. I apologize for bringing up a repeat thread, but I obviously missed the previous ones. I actually expected more "are you stupid?" sort of replies to this question. Good to see the helpful responses
D
deepdiver
Well-known member
BWAHAAA, that is most excellent! But it would be sled parts, not jewelry!
Way to get creative! You get 2 thumbs up from me!
Hey now Ms B. I can see where this post is heading. To answer your question...well...That would hijack this post...dont want to do that and if the Washington group picked up on it...well you know how that would end up. Then again Mr modsleddr might agree with the idea.;>)
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avy courses
Great points regarding the worth of taking an avy course(s)
Look out, here comes some free advice....
The true worth in taking a course comes from the fact that a good course can point out some bad habits you may be doing, and introduce some good habits you need to be following. Without taking a course, you may never be aware of these bad habits, that only through the sheer power of luck, have been surviving.
An avy course will not provide any silver bullets to slay the avy dragon... but it WILL provide you with the tools to ask the right questions, at the right times. That alone wmay save your life if only you stop to pause and make a reasonable, rational decision instead of just thumbing the throttle and center-punching the steep gully.
Again; classes are only as good as the teacher, and the teacher is only as good as their experience and course materials. Ask around; see who has some credibility with your buddies. Don't just take an avalanche course; take a good avalanche course with a good instructor. You will never regret it.
Great points regarding the worth of taking an avy course(s)
Look out, here comes some free advice....
The true worth in taking a course comes from the fact that a good course can point out some bad habits you may be doing, and introduce some good habits you need to be following. Without taking a course, you may never be aware of these bad habits, that only through the sheer power of luck, have been surviving.
An avy course will not provide any silver bullets to slay the avy dragon... but it WILL provide you with the tools to ask the right questions, at the right times. That alone wmay save your life if only you stop to pause and make a reasonable, rational decision instead of just thumbing the throttle and center-punching the steep gully.
Again; classes are only as good as the teacher, and the teacher is only as good as their experience and course materials. Ask around; see who has some credibility with your buddies. Don't just take an avalanche course; take a good avalanche course with a good instructor. You will never regret it.
It sounds as though this topic has been threaded before. I apologize for bringing up a repeat thread, but I obviously missed the previous ones. I actually expected more "are you stupid?" sort of replies to this question. Good to see the helpful responses
No apologies necessary!! It's a very important topic.....and one that hasn't been addressed for awhile (sometimes things are brought up in different sections, and then get completely *buried*).
I've been interested in avy education for about 10 years now. I first really got rolling on it after my brother was buried in an avalanche by someone in another group that rode above him while he was stuck on a hill. Thank God that he had part of his fingers sticking out, and was able to be dug out alive (he didn't have a beacon then, has had one ever since). Two week later the hubby and I lost a cousin in an avy, no beacon.....total burial, wasn't found until late the next day. No one in his group had any equipment, nor any idea of what to do. He wasn't buried that deep either.
It's great to see the increased opportunities to attend classes now, and finally seeing snowmobiler specific classes being added. We do cover a lot of terrain in a day. Using those big trenches we dig with our sleds is a fast/quick way to take a look at the snowpack. This is by no means a failsafe, but good way to check different areas as you travel, while also checking out all of the OTHER factors.
I am involved more with the education side of things now, but before that and even if I weren't, I took/take multiple classes every year. Different instructors, different highlights. The learning and repetition of it helps tremendously. If things do ever go bad, your brain can kick in from all of that learning and help you to do what needs to be done. I've also learned that there are days that I get out, and see what's out there, and we turn around and go back home. As much as we may have wanted to ride, we are alive to ride another day when it's safer.
Thumbs up to you for asking and caring enough to do something that just may save your life, your wife's life, or others you ride with......or even come across!!
Class and field sessions are both important as Mike pointed out.I also like the idea of buying a gift, hiding it with a beacon, and having the other find it. I think that's a wonderful idea!
Great responses by all!
D
deepdiver
Well-known member
Avy danger is real. We have lost too many brothers and sisters in accidents that may in many cases might have been prevented or rescued. Never quit learning KFDO70. You are too close to Revy to not go there...yet at the same time Revy and Golden are places to respect. The mountains are like the ocean in some ways. The beauty and tranquility are there yet at the same time the power of either is beyond our understanding. When one tests a mountain or the ocean you may win some times but sooner or later the power of either will show what it is all about.
The first time I rode in Cooke City, MT and old timer who was showing me and my friends around(He was a former factory rep for Yamaha and former racer) he hid a beacon under the tunnel of my sled that was parked outside the cabin. IT was cold and snowing heavily. Since I was the "Cooke Virgin" of the group I had to find the beacon or buy dinner and drinks for a group of 6 riders. I had just gotten out of the shower and was barely dressed. I knew we would do something like that as we had already planned on it..just didnt know when..I guessed it would be a practice on the mountain. I was caught by surprise...I thought I was fast on the beacon then with some mild pressure and something at stake I didnt do as well as I thought I could. The time was within the NO BUY target but only by seconds. Had it been with a family member buried, after watching a slide, I may have failed..I learned a lesson that night that I needed to know more than I did. Remember time is of the essence...you want to be able to work that beacon basically blindfolded and with lots of distractions..practice practice and more.
Take an Avy class. You do not want to learn this the hard way. Thanks for starting this post..it brought back some memories and awareness that is good to have. Here is something for KFD to utilize..it is just a start. http://www.avalanche.ca/HomeCAC
Safe riding
The first time I rode in Cooke City, MT and old timer who was showing me and my friends around(He was a former factory rep for Yamaha and former racer) he hid a beacon under the tunnel of my sled that was parked outside the cabin. IT was cold and snowing heavily. Since I was the "Cooke Virgin" of the group I had to find the beacon or buy dinner and drinks for a group of 6 riders. I had just gotten out of the shower and was barely dressed. I knew we would do something like that as we had already planned on it..just didnt know when..I guessed it would be a practice on the mountain. I was caught by surprise...I thought I was fast on the beacon then with some mild pressure and something at stake I didnt do as well as I thought I could. The time was within the NO BUY target but only by seconds. Had it been with a family member buried, after watching a slide, I may have failed..I learned a lesson that night that I needed to know more than I did. Remember time is of the essence...you want to be able to work that beacon basically blindfolded and with lots of distractions..practice practice and more.
Take an Avy class. You do not want to learn this the hard way. Thanks for starting this post..it brought back some memories and awareness that is good to have. Here is something for KFD to utilize..it is just a start. http://www.avalanche.ca/HomeCAC
Safe riding
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stopdropanroll
Active member
Took my first Avy class last night w/ Mike Duffy, though I am a flatlander I think the class is even more important for us, we have very little knowlage of the terrain and avy reports and common avy areas. Can't think of a better way to spend 4 hrs then to take his coarse, and I plan to repaet it every year. I just wish more of my riding buddie thought the same way, hope it dosent resort to a tragity to make them realize.
So to answer your question, EVERY BC enthousiast should take one of theses classes.
So to answer your question, EVERY BC enthousiast should take one of theses classes.
The question "Avy Courses...Are They Worth It?"
Yes, totally. I was unfortunally in an avalance in March 2009 in Blue River where a good friend passed. We were using caution at that time and staying in the meadows, trees and staying off the unsafe slopes. The wrong call was made to play on a mid slope with a large slope just off a small valley. We were just calling it a day and have just chatted and were turning around to make our way home and the hill broke way up we were in the valley at the bottom and it was like a 700 meter horseshoe. 350m of that broke and came rushing at us, that was somthing we'd never expect where we were but it did, and we were faced with a serious situation. He turned one way where he thought was safe and he was swept off his sled, I turned the other way into the bush and everything turned black for about 3 seconds. Yes we both pulled our avalanche packs as well. Suddenly I found myself heading away from the scene at an extreme rate of speed with my feet in the stirrips, my head over my windshield and my hand pinned against my throttle gripping the handlegrips hard. I made it out, then to quickly think and turn into rescue mode. I took my avy course just recently so it was fresh. It all came to me instantly, I raced to my buddies that only one seen and headed quickly to the area. First thing, Someone needs to take charge, so I did, and informed that Im in command listen and follow. I sent one for help, Should of had a SPOT. The other 3 came up to the hill right away. I remembered to turn my sled around for an easy out, calm down and check the area, have a backup plan. So I turned my Peeps on, I took note of where I last seen our friend and we started heading up in a line. Someone had there beacon on and I think were a little flutered so I just flagged them and carryed on, after telling them all to put the beacons on search. At 58m got a signal, headed up towards it, at 12 m got a good signal, seen the sled handlebars and then kept going, at 5m seen a red spot in the snow it was a collapsed avy bag. So we arrived, I instructed all to put there beacons on Transmit in turns while we were digging, we dug out his head then chest as he was sideways, CPR was started, and that commenced for about 2 hrs, unfortunately we were unsuccessfull, but I feel we did a great job and with out the FULL avy course we would of been totally lost. I will always feel more comfortable riding with any one that has the FULL training, as I know that if that was me, I may of had a chance. There is just a beacon course, thats not all you need, you need the full classroom and field trainng. We made one bad decision and it cost a life, but now more I can get out to people that may save lives.
Rest in Peace Albert, and all the others that lost there lives in Avalances last year and I hope this year we dont see this again.
Yes, totally. I was unfortunally in an avalance in March 2009 in Blue River where a good friend passed. We were using caution at that time and staying in the meadows, trees and staying off the unsafe slopes. The wrong call was made to play on a mid slope with a large slope just off a small valley. We were just calling it a day and have just chatted and were turning around to make our way home and the hill broke way up we were in the valley at the bottom and it was like a 700 meter horseshoe. 350m of that broke and came rushing at us, that was somthing we'd never expect where we were but it did, and we were faced with a serious situation. He turned one way where he thought was safe and he was swept off his sled, I turned the other way into the bush and everything turned black for about 3 seconds. Yes we both pulled our avalanche packs as well. Suddenly I found myself heading away from the scene at an extreme rate of speed with my feet in the stirrips, my head over my windshield and my hand pinned against my throttle gripping the handlegrips hard. I made it out, then to quickly think and turn into rescue mode. I took my avy course just recently so it was fresh. It all came to me instantly, I raced to my buddies that only one seen and headed quickly to the area. First thing, Someone needs to take charge, so I did, and informed that Im in command listen and follow. I sent one for help, Should of had a SPOT. The other 3 came up to the hill right away. I remembered to turn my sled around for an easy out, calm down and check the area, have a backup plan. So I turned my Peeps on, I took note of where I last seen our friend and we started heading up in a line. Someone had there beacon on and I think were a little flutered so I just flagged them and carryed on, after telling them all to put the beacons on search. At 58m got a signal, headed up towards it, at 12 m got a good signal, seen the sled handlebars and then kept going, at 5m seen a red spot in the snow it was a collapsed avy bag. So we arrived, I instructed all to put there beacons on Transmit in turns while we were digging, we dug out his head then chest as he was sideways, CPR was started, and that commenced for about 2 hrs, unfortunately we were unsuccessfull, but I feel we did a great job and with out the FULL avy course we would of been totally lost. I will always feel more comfortable riding with any one that has the FULL training, as I know that if that was me, I may of had a chance. There is just a beacon course, thats not all you need, you need the full classroom and field trainng. We made one bad decision and it cost a life, but now more I can get out to people that may save lives.
Rest in Peace Albert, and all the others that lost there lives in Avalances last year and I hope this year we dont see this again.
5
550iq
Well-known member
Back in 1990 I watched my dad get buried under 100,000cy of snow (set in motion by a 70hp snowmobile). 7 days after the slide, we found him under 30-feet of snow. About 100 people, two dozers, magnatometers, and a ground scanning radar were employed in the recovery operation. Needless to say avalanche courses were then attended.
Three important facts were apparent after the classes (if you listen well enough): 1) Avalanches are not freaks of nature; 2) To think that attending avalanche classes and carrying probes, beacons, etc with you in an attempt to stay alive to pursue your highmarking, hill climbing, cornice jumping fun is just plain stupid; and last but most important, 3) SEE SLOPE, SEE SLIDE. repeat, SEE SLOPE, SEE SLIDE, one more time, SEE SLOPE, SEE SLIDE.
If you cannot "see" a potential slide site, dispite all your equipment, all your percieved traing, you too can get up close and personal with, as Jill Fredson describes, the Beast. Thanks.
Three important facts were apparent after the classes (if you listen well enough): 1) Avalanches are not freaks of nature; 2) To think that attending avalanche classes and carrying probes, beacons, etc with you in an attempt to stay alive to pursue your highmarking, hill climbing, cornice jumping fun is just plain stupid; and last but most important, 3) SEE SLOPE, SEE SLIDE. repeat, SEE SLOPE, SEE SLIDE, one more time, SEE SLOPE, SEE SLIDE.
If you cannot "see" a potential slide site, dispite all your equipment, all your percieved traing, you too can get up close and personal with, as Jill Fredson describes, the Beast. Thanks.
Like it was mentioned before!
When I took my AST1 course, It made me realize what I don't know about avalanches, reading the tell tale signs, and how to increase your chances in rescue and recovery, avoidance and perception.
Register yourself and your wife in the course. Money well spent..
When I took my AST1 course, It made me realize what I don't know about avalanches, reading the tell tale signs, and how to increase your chances in rescue and recovery, avoidance and perception.
Register yourself and your wife in the course. Money well spent..
C
cobbycat
ACCOUNT CLOSED
I remember taking my first class, and after the classroom, day 1, the boys and I went out for a smoke, I turned to them and asked "why are we still alive?" you will be shocked. I doubt you will get one person that says avy classes are a waste of time or money. when we had to search for a buried guy last year, it all just kicked in and we went to work. all my crew knew what to do and we just did it like we were on auto pilot. can't stress how important the classes are.
An Avy class is worth it, just the knowledge to recognise the potential dangers are worth it, wind loaded slopes, poor base conditions, etc..... And armed with the info you can look at a slope and make a better call about the area you are in. I have ridden in a particular valley hundreds of times but one ride last year after a big storm I stopped at the entrance to the valley looked up at the sides and knew that riding through would break the tension on the slope and we would be done for, no sooner than we turned around the whole side of the hill cut loose, and if you were in there you would not have gotten out, beacons, avy packs and all would have been under 15 feet of accumulated snow and packed up against the other hillside. Education is far more important than equipment.
here here!!
N
Nor-val
Well-known member
One thing I would add is try and get all the people you ride with to take the class with you. I just my second time through the training ( and learned even more ), but the important thing was that most of the guys I ride with were there. We all know what is expected of us and can work as an educated group and hopefully keep our heads on straight. The course was well worth it
Like Nor-val said. Take a course and have your riding buddies take it with you. The more everyone knows about avalanche prevention the better.
Having just finishing my AST1 coarse on Dec.12-13,I can not believe the knowledge I left that class with.
As I would never get in a car with someone that was not licenssed,I now after this coarse will not ride with anyone that has not taken an avy coarse.
I want to be found fast if the chit ever hits the fan,and without proper training my chances are cut down drasticly.
I beening a seasoned rider that puts on an average of 4000 miles per season,I thought I had enough experiance to stay out of danger, well I learned from the begining of class right to the end,and if you sled in the backcountry,wheather you climb or not you owe it to yourself, friends and family to take this coarse.Too much knowledge won't hurt you.
Cheers,
Dave
As I would never get in a car with someone that was not licenssed,I now after this coarse will not ride with anyone that has not taken an avy coarse.
I want to be found fast if the chit ever hits the fan,and without proper training my chances are cut down drasticly.
I beening a seasoned rider that puts on an average of 4000 miles per season,I thought I had enough experiance to stay out of danger, well I learned from the begining of class right to the end,and if you sled in the backcountry,wheather you climb or not you owe it to yourself, friends and family to take this coarse.Too much knowledge won't hurt you.
Cheers,
Dave
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