AVY Advise Opinions!!
- Thread starter Arcticcatkid83
- Start date
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Arcticcatkid83
New member
I guess I appreciate all you worried for me. But i dont need everyone telling me a cant handle it. Im not gunna be stupid hitting every hill i see, High marking while a budy underneath me is stuck.if thats what your thinking your wrong just some of them when the cameras rolling. Im taking an avy class. I have all the necessary gear and know how to use except for needing more practice with the beacon but i will be messing around barring the beacon in the snow trying to find it with another one and working on my times when i rent one. The cabin were staying is being rented out to us by my dads friend hes lived in grand lake for several years he snowboards and snowmobiles so were not just going out blind. But like i've mentioned everyones gotta get there cherry popped sooner or later. Until I take the avy class I KNOW enough. Not trying to be cocky at all its just.. because of my bad wording in a post yall think im a newbie inexperienced kid. Even though i am out west, but i have as much experience riding as anyone going out west for there first time riding.
Either way its going to be a blast!
Either way its going to be a blast!
You gotta understand that your riding experince means nothing! Your no better off than someone going out to ride for there first time. You may have the skillz to handle your sled, but can you handle a group of guys that are all pumped up and wanna rip it up and don't show concern to certain dangerous situations because there judgment is being impared by the size or so call sized of there nutz??? Group dynamics are huge part of staying safe in the back country. Everyone has to be on the same page!!!
Watch " A dozen more turns" Opens your eyes real quick!
Watch " A dozen more turns" Opens your eyes real quick!
This season, 22 deaths from avalanches in the US alone (including skiers and snowboarders) not bashing, we are trying to get you and your buddies to not add to that total. Listen to the "constructive criticism", take a class with your buddies, and get the right gear, this will lessen the chances that you'll get in too trouble, but only if you listen, learn, and practice what you've learned.
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theshadowrider
Well-known member
I just finished reading "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" and I quote, "....use of beacons reduces mortality only about 10 percent (some studies have show zero percent). More recent studies with the new generation of digital beacons have pushed that number up to 15 percent, which is still not very high. Because of regular practice, pros today enjoy around a 60 percent reduction in mortality due to beacon use." To me that is crazy. I think very few could be considered "pros" and even then it gives you about a 50/50 chance you will die. The rest of us its a 10 percent chance of helping you. A beacon seems to me more for the family to find your body. My point, practice with your beacon, more than just in the parking lot, and get an airbag! My prediction is soon the airbag will be considered as mandatory safety gear.
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Arcticcatkid83
New member
I know what your saying about skill experience means nearly nonthing from the terrain change im coming in to. I completely understand that. But am i crazy when i say i have about all the knowledge i could have for where i live. Like many first time riders you gotta have hands on experience and with the avy class is about as good as i can get for now. Staying 8 nights so the first few days i wont be too daring until i learn my surrounding as much as i can.
How bout putting some pics up of slopes/hills and talk what about that hill looks dangerous. Pics of hills that look safe to rip. things to look for so i know what to look out for and stay away from. And dont say stay off all hills cause like i said before thats what im looking most forward too. The Safe hills even though there arnt any.
SOunds stupid but im gunna push myself as much until my limits. Limits that im still learning. smart Challenges to yourself is what makes snowmobiling the life
Adrenaline rush makes sledding the best"safely"
How bout putting some pics up of slopes/hills and talk what about that hill looks dangerous. Pics of hills that look safe to rip. things to look for so i know what to look out for and stay away from. And dont say stay off all hills cause like i said before thats what im looking most forward too. The Safe hills even though there arnt any.
SOunds stupid but im gunna push myself as much until my limits. Limits that im still learning. smart Challenges to yourself is what makes snowmobiling the life
Adrenaline rush makes sledding the best"safely"
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macer_81
Member
I see your not getting the point. Right now this season its not highmarking above someone thats on the hill that dangerous. Its climbing pierod! Being new to mountain riding take full advantage of the powder we are getting and stay away from climbing. This year is not a good year for newbies to bust there cherries in the mountians.
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Arcticcatkid83
New member
i do understand. Not gunna blow this trip just cause conditions arnt very good for first time riders. Had this trip planned for 2 years cause a torn ACL a week before last trip. Trips costing thousands and its going to be the time of my life. Might be stupid, dangerous what ever. im gunna learn as much as possible and go with it, how bout helping me instead of just telling me not to climb any hills. why go out west to do the same riding i can do in michigan.
I mean you guys cant control what I do so how bout help me with what I want to do so im in as good a position i can be when im there.
I mean you guys cant control what I do so how bout help me with what I want to do so im in as good a position i can be when im there.
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tar
Well-known member
Kid,it's time for you to take all the advice given here.Don't be a smart azz,you did ask for it.
We are looking out for you.
I lost a dear friend in an avy.Searching for your buried friend is not somthing you want to do.Putting your friend in a body bag is not somthing you want to do either. I don't think you understand the danger of an avy.Don't think this can't happen to you, it can.
I understand you like to climb the hills we all do, but sometimes it better to stay away from the steep hills.
If you are hell bent to ride these areas, try to find some local guys to ride with they will know the area. Now I sound like your father
Have fun be safe.
Tar
We are looking out for you.
I lost a dear friend in an avy.Searching for your buried friend is not somthing you want to do.Putting your friend in a body bag is not somthing you want to do either. I don't think you understand the danger of an avy.Don't think this can't happen to you, it can.
I understand you like to climb the hills we all do, but sometimes it better to stay away from the steep hills.
If you are hell bent to ride these areas, try to find some local guys to ride with they will know the area. Now I sound like your father
Have fun be safe.
Tar
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Powzilla
Member
WTF
"staying off the hills is not really an option i mean thats the reason i'm going out west"
DON'T JOKE ABOUT THIS STUFF. IF YOU ARE ALONE, AND YOU ARE AN IDIOT, AND YOU DIE, THAT DOESN'T MATTER. BUT WHEN YOU KILL SOMEONE ELSE BECAUSE YOU ARE AN IDIOT, THAT MATTERS. EVERYONE IN THE BACKCOUNTRY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYONE ELSE THERE TOO.
"staying off the hills is not really an option i mean thats the reason i'm going out west"
DON'T JOKE ABOUT THIS STUFF. IF YOU ARE ALONE, AND YOU ARE AN IDIOT, AND YOU DIE, THAT DOESN'T MATTER. BUT WHEN YOU KILL SOMEONE ELSE BECAUSE YOU ARE AN IDIOT, THAT MATTERS. EVERYONE IN THE BACKCOUNTRY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYONE ELSE THERE TOO.
Read the avy condition/ backcountry reports for the area. Pretty much every report has any slope over 30 degrees to be at a considerable risk or High risk to slide. That means stay the F off those slopes. They are even seeing slopes that are below 30 degrees slide. Dude lost his life last week in Cooke at a base of slope that was littered with trees and that has no history of sliding. If you can't understand why people are over and over telling to avoid climbing than you best go pound the powerlines in the UP and try out west for another year. I'm done now!!!
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James T Kirk
Well-known member
If you want to be absolutely sure to climb lots of big hills on your trip out west go in the May once the snow is set up. Sure, it wont be deep pow, but the odds of stability are much better. Just dont be on anything in the sun in late afternoon that time of year.
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EagleRiverDee
Well-known member
Two people now have made recommendations to you on books that would help you to understand terrain better, as far as what typically will and will not avalanche.
Snow Sense by Jill Fredston and Doug Fesler
Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper
Snow Sense is a very small book, and reads quick. Many avy courses have made it mandatory reading, so you might as well pick up a copy and read it before your course. Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain is a bigger book and more in-depth. The authors of both books are highly respected and nationally (possibly internationally) recognized as THE avalanche experts.
The problem that people are trying to make you aware of is that this year, the normal rules don't apply. Slopes that have never avalanched in anyone's memory are avalanching now. The sweet spot, in a normal year, for avalanche is 38° and anything 30°-45° can avy under the right conditions. This year, however, we're hearing reports of fully treed slopes 20° avalanching and resulting in fatalities. I've never heard of anything like that happening. A lot of us ride those lower angled, heavily anchored slopes because they were "known" to be safe. Well, this year they aren't. No one is trying to put a damper on your fun, but everyone wants you to come home alive, and the bottom line is this is a really bad year for avalanche activity. Even a guide might not help, since a fatal avalanche within the last week was a guy in a group led by a guide.
You're right that there's nothing wrong with wanting to ride chutes, and play in the deep. But you have to use good sense when you do it. Riding a chute (which is the perfect funnel for an avy) in high avalanche danger conditions is playing Russian Roullette. Maybe you'll get away with it, and maybe you won't. But I guarantee if you're under the snow hoping your buddies are going to be fast enough to find you before you die you're going to be wishing you had used more caution. That's not when you want your common sense to kick in. And I'm not mocking you, and your age and experience didn't come into consideration in any of my responses. I'm responding to what you've said and in all honesty you're making me very concerned that Snowest is going to be dissecting your avalanche fatality soon. Prove us wrong, okay?
Snow Sense by Jill Fredston and Doug Fesler
Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper
Snow Sense is a very small book, and reads quick. Many avy courses have made it mandatory reading, so you might as well pick up a copy and read it before your course. Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain is a bigger book and more in-depth. The authors of both books are highly respected and nationally (possibly internationally) recognized as THE avalanche experts.
The problem that people are trying to make you aware of is that this year, the normal rules don't apply. Slopes that have never avalanched in anyone's memory are avalanching now. The sweet spot, in a normal year, for avalanche is 38° and anything 30°-45° can avy under the right conditions. This year, however, we're hearing reports of fully treed slopes 20° avalanching and resulting in fatalities. I've never heard of anything like that happening. A lot of us ride those lower angled, heavily anchored slopes because they were "known" to be safe. Well, this year they aren't. No one is trying to put a damper on your fun, but everyone wants you to come home alive, and the bottom line is this is a really bad year for avalanche activity. Even a guide might not help, since a fatal avalanche within the last week was a guy in a group led by a guide.
You're right that there's nothing wrong with wanting to ride chutes, and play in the deep. But you have to use good sense when you do it. Riding a chute (which is the perfect funnel for an avy) in high avalanche danger conditions is playing Russian Roullette. Maybe you'll get away with it, and maybe you won't. But I guarantee if you're under the snow hoping your buddies are going to be fast enough to find you before you die you're going to be wishing you had used more caution. That's not when you want your common sense to kick in. And I'm not mocking you, and your age and experience didn't come into consideration in any of my responses. I'm responding to what you've said and in all honesty you're making me very concerned that Snowest is going to be dissecting your avalanche fatality soon. Prove us wrong, okay?
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CatRyder88
Well-known member
The conditions aren't good for anyone. It doesn't matter if your a first time rider and your just gonna go with it?? Seems like great attitude.
Iv been there and dug up people (some of my closest friends). Also have dug up a body (my own father). It's not exactly a fun thing to do. And there reason all that happened is because we were inexperienced and never thought it would happen to us.
And it's kind of hard to help you out with pictures of what hills to climb and not climb cuz every hill is different and the snow pac is different all over the place.
My advice is stick to the trees and meadows and if you are in the trees make sure there isn't a big face loaded with snow above you. Sorry if your going to go on this big trip and do the same riding you do around home but at least you will come home alive.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk when I should be checkin wells!
Here's the progression of this thread...
You are planning to ride the mountains and you have no mountain experience
You admit to being ignorant of avalanche hazards and ask for advice
You get advice that is on point but a bit too direct for your liking
You make a statement (so dangerously stupid it's quoted 3 or 4 times) saying you're hitting the hills no matter what
You get called on that statement by people who know and who are concerned you'll get someone else killed
You get butthurt and start back peddaling
You want us do do your homework for you
The information is out there and easy to find so how about YOU go look for it. As already suggested read Snow Sense and check out the hundreds of avy vids on youtube.
Knowing about avalanches and what causes them, and what to look for in the mountains DOES NOT magically make them safer. That knowledge helps the educated AVOID slopes that are unstable.
*EDIT: Go back and read Eagle River Dee's last post over and over and over until it sinks in to your dense, young skull. The middle paragraph is especially informative.
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Sadly there are several stories like this one.
http://ksax.com/article/stories/s2515706.shtml
You are asking for pics of hills that look safe and dangerous.....You don't need pics. You just need to know the recipe that causes avys and the current recipe includes an extra helping of weak faceted snow that is buried under that picture that you want to see.
Here is the CAIC report for the area. The dangers are considerable and spots of HIGH.
http://avalanche.state.co.us/pub_bc_avo.php?zone_id=1
http://avalanche.state.co.us/pub_bc_avo.php?zone_id=0
http://ksax.com/article/stories/s2515706.shtml
You are asking for pics of hills that look safe and dangerous.....You don't need pics. You just need to know the recipe that causes avys and the current recipe includes an extra helping of weak faceted snow that is buried under that picture that you want to see.
Here is the CAIC report for the area. The dangers are considerable and spots of HIGH.
http://avalanche.state.co.us/pub_bc_avo.php?zone_id=1
http://avalanche.state.co.us/pub_bc_avo.php?zone_id=0
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Arcticcatkid83
New member
I really Dont need to hear from 10 different people ill be a statistic. Thx to those that have helped, those who didn't, you have your opinion but ill just prove u wrong.
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BigWill
Active member
Statements like beacons creating space, probes used to show your location,you're not going to stay off the hills, and asking for pics of avy terrain are the reason you're catching hell from people. Do you know which degree of slopes slide most, what terrain traps are, how weather can affect snowpack, which layers are stable and how to read snowpack, what hoar is? NO??? Well even if you did its all out the window this year, thats what everyone is trying to tell you, It's a bad year! Especially for those unfamiliar with avy's. I ride with a group of serious riders, some that are probably on some of the videos you are watching to prepare for your trip out here and we are staying off alot of stuff we've always hit. I know you want to make the most of your trip out here but just make sure its not your last, we like you flatlanders tourism money.
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EagleRiverDee
Well-known member
I've been nothing but respectful in my replies. Your issue is you don't like what anyone here is trying to tell you. It's not a reflection on you or your abilities as a rider, it's a matter of cold hard facts. Everyone here has tried to give you advice to ensure you have a great vacation and are still alive at the end of it. You're being bullheaded and refusing to listen to solid advice - you have a riding plan that you are refusing to even consider deviating from regardless of conditions. That's the type of thing that gets people killed. I hope your avy instructor has better luck reaching you- it's not just your life on the line, but also anyone you are riding with. You have a responsibility to ride safely not just so you come home alive but so that everyone else in your group does. I hope that this is all keyboard bravado and that you don't actually have a completely reckless disregard for human life that you seem to have. Good luck. You say, "I'll just prove you wrong"-- well, avoiding avalanche isn't a matter of willpower, it's a matter of using good sense and being willing to make changes to the day's riding plan when the avalanche conditions warrant it. I hope you'll be doing that.
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CatRyder88
Well-known member
What are you going to prove? Lol. That you can climb hills and chutes in unstable conditions?
You do that buddy. You say your not cocky yet you make statements like this
"staying off the hills is not really an option i mean thats the reason i'm going out west"
One of the dumbest posts Iv ever read!
"And dont say stay off all hills cause like i said before thats what im looking most forward too. The Safe hills even though there arnt any.
SOunds stupid but im gunna push myself as much until my limits. Limits that im still learning."
Yes that does sound stupid!
I could go on but I feel I'm already wasting my time typing this cause clearly you don't think is going to happen to you. Well reality check it's attitudes like that that get people killed. Your asking for advice on what to do when your in a avy or when it happens. Well try taking everyone's advice here so a avy does NOT happen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk when I should be checkin wells!
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