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Auto bailout talks collapse over union wages
- Thread starter Sako7STW
- Start date
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Schism
Member
You won't hear any crying from me about this. The big 3 have been running business using very poor business practices and until oil prices went up which helped start the recession we are in, they were laughing all the way to the bank. If anyone of us "regular Joe's" ran a business as the big 3 have, we would be out of a job in no time flat.....with NO potential for a government bailout.
Both the union and the company executives are at fault in this one and both should suffer the consequences. IMO a chapter 11 restructuring is needed for these companies.
My $.02
-Schism
Both the union and the company executives are at fault in this one and both should suffer the consequences. IMO a chapter 11 restructuring is needed for these companies.
My $.02
-Schism
x2^^
i beleive if the have to shutdown and restructure then maybe they can restart as nonunion or redo there contracts to more reasonable terms,
i beleive if the have to shutdown and restructure then maybe they can restart as nonunion or redo there contracts to more reasonable terms,
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Diesel99
Member
The CDS exposure of GM is massive, if they go under the stock market will get liquidated to pay off all the gambling debts put on GM.
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Tearupamountain
Member
I guess it boils down to the question of do you want a job or not or do you want to be greedy? I'll bet the workers have no say in this. I'm sorry if your union but unions are blood sucking vampires that in this economy will take a company down and could give a rat's *** less about the employees. Argue if you want but when our entire co. fleet got laid off to bring in a non union sub-contractor they didn't do a damn thing for us. Why do we need unions when we have the labor commission who is looking out for the employee and is ran by the government and doesn't cost you dues. Just the taxes your already paying
From what was reported last night on MSNBC the Japanese pay 2/3rd's the wages of the domestic three. Something like $49 to $71 respectively.
The big 3 need to get away from the unions, they are bleeding them dry. Thats why the imports don't build cars in the midwest, the unions are too strong. If they have to follow their example and bulid down south so be it. Those jerks can go without a job if they don't want to play along. That is what will happen if they go BK or sell. The first thing that will happen is they will kick the union out. Its 20 years past time.
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Ollie
ACCOUNT CLOSED
Right now it is a gamble.
The unions are gambling that their massive support for the Dems in this last election will pay off with a bail out.
Obama and the most of the dems are behind the bailout.
The unions are betting that all they have to do is wait till after the new admin takes office and they get everything they want.
However, the house will have no trouble passing a bailout (payoff for support of the dems).
The senate on the other hand is another matter. The dems don't own it. All it takes is a united front by the Republicans and they can keep the bailout from going anywhere.
It is also a gamble by the republicans and Democrats.
The democrats are betting that with the economy in the dumps they can get away with a union handout and claim it is to save the economy from getting worse.
The republicans are gambling that the 75% of america that DOESN"T want a bailout of the big 3 will stand behind them "enough" to shore up republicans who are scared of looking anti-union.
To be blunt about it.
This is a payoff to the unions and the republicans are trying to drive a wedge between the unions and the dems.
If the republicans can stop the bailout (or force the unions to take a massive pay and benifits cut) it is enrage a lot of union members. It will look like the Dems abandonded them.
The unions are gambling that their massive support for the Dems in this last election will pay off with a bail out.
Obama and the most of the dems are behind the bailout.
The unions are betting that all they have to do is wait till after the new admin takes office and they get everything they want.
However, the house will have no trouble passing a bailout (payoff for support of the dems).
The senate on the other hand is another matter. The dems don't own it. All it takes is a united front by the Republicans and they can keep the bailout from going anywhere.
It is also a gamble by the republicans and Democrats.
The democrats are betting that with the economy in the dumps they can get away with a union handout and claim it is to save the economy from getting worse.
The republicans are gambling that the 75% of america that DOESN"T want a bailout of the big 3 will stand behind them "enough" to shore up republicans who are scared of looking anti-union.
To be blunt about it.
This is a payoff to the unions and the republicans are trying to drive a wedge between the unions and the dems.
If the republicans can stop the bailout (or force the unions to take a massive pay and benifits cut) it is enrage a lot of union members. It will look like the Dems abandonded them.
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Anti-Hero
ACCOUNT CLOSED
I am still waiting for the government to bail out my mortgage, you know while all them phuggers were paying interest only and 1 or 2 percent, the bank stuck me with this thing called fixed, for years i was paying 6.375%, and now i have to pay closing costs to refinance, damn it if i was not a native born American the government would pay this for me. do you think if i illegally jump over to the mexican border the Mexican government will pay for my mortgage?
Me too!!
I don't understand why you guys seem to want to hang the unions. This is not a union problem. It is a CEO problem. The unions have a responsibility to protect the workers. $70.00 bucks an hour for wages and benefits is not greedy if the CEO's get to make $5,770.00 an hour.
If we fixed the CEO greed we may not have a union problem. What has to be decided is how much should a CEO be able to make (if any) up and above what they pay the workers? The fact is you could can 90% of all GM management not re-hire and the company would roll on without a hitch. If you canned 10% of the workers the company would fail if you did not re-hire.
CEO greed is bankrupting companies right and left. I have a hard time blaming a union that wants it's workers to make 1.2% of what it's CEO's make.
I have been the CEO of a small company for 20 years. My compensation and benefits have never, nor will they ever exceed my lowest paid employee by more then 30%. Many times the board has voted to increase my compensation. I only let this happen if every employee can get the same increase. Last year I had two W2 employees who made more money than I did. I let this happen because the truth is I only work about 1/3 as much as they do. They earned it. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, I just believe this is honest and fair. If every company were to do the same it would level the playing field for all Americans and we would not be facing the problems we face today.
If we fixed the CEO greed we may not have a union problem. What has to be decided is how much should a CEO be able to make (if any) up and above what they pay the workers? The fact is you could can 90% of all GM management not re-hire and the company would roll on without a hitch. If you canned 10% of the workers the company would fail if you did not re-hire.
CEO greed is bankrupting companies right and left. I have a hard time blaming a union that wants it's workers to make 1.2% of what it's CEO's make.
I have been the CEO of a small company for 20 years. My compensation and benefits have never, nor will they ever exceed my lowest paid employee by more then 30%. Many times the board has voted to increase my compensation. I only let this happen if every employee can get the same increase. Last year I had two W2 employees who made more money than I did. I let this happen because the truth is I only work about 1/3 as much as they do. They earned it. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, I just believe this is honest and fair. If every company were to do the same it would level the playing field for all Americans and we would not be facing the problems we face today.
x2
IMO they got the Union they deserve. Restructure and cut some of the huge amount of FAT.
Rick Wagner (gm ceo) needs to go I agree. You can't run the largest corp in the world 5 years ago to the brink of BK and not have to stand accountable. The unions also make the labor cost 30-40 per hour more for the big 3 than in Jap plants in the south where there is no unions. Not to mention all the legacy costs. Let the UAW pay the legacy costs, pay a fair wage for a fair days work, and dump all the ceo's and the bulk of the board of directors. While I am up here on my soapbox lets make Mitt Romney Car czar.
I think Romney needs to be put in charge of GM.... if he'll take the job.
Wagoner has got to go.
I was told that in the last quarter GM and Toyota both sold almost the smae exact amount of vehcles. GM had a loss of 63 Billion Dollars and Toyota made 17 Billion Dollars. These companys do not need to be bailed out, they need to go broke and start over. Get rid of the Union and the outragous benifits and retirment funds. Otherwise the big three will always be broke. Giving them the bailout will not change anything besides let them survice a little bit longer. They have to fail and restruction the Company or it will always be a problem. It will suck for those that would benifits and retirment plans but it has to happen.
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Supplicate
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explain to me how, exactly, the oil prices going up helped start the recession.
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