Are you a Union supporter?

[luvtoride]

So for a long time, my father had to deal with the labor unions in his taconite mine up here on the Iron Range (well, its not his, he's the VP, but he dealt with the unions because his boss really, really didn't want to). Well, he never had a real high opinion of the bureaucracy involved in unions. Here's an example of the union protecting an idiot.

The mine couldn't fire someone for utter stupidity. The guy was speeding, drunk, and behind the wheel of one of the hauling trucks, all the mine could do is slap his wrist even though he put the company at risk with his stupidity. The union prevents the firing of said employees. In fact, the union demanded two weeks paid vacation for that employee so he could "dry out" while the paperwork was being filed for his "warning".

Anyways, that's my little rant. I agree in principle with the "union" a group of workers who band together to fight for fair pay and benefits, but what they have become today is a disgrace, and it makes outsourcing a necessity for many American companies.

What are you're opinions on unions?

 

[Wade]

So for a long time, my father had to deal with the labor unions in his taconite mine up here on the Iron Range (well, its not his, he's the VP, but he dealt with the unions because his boss really, really didn't want to). Well, he never had a real high opinion of the bureaucracy involved in unions. Here's an example of the union protecting an idiot.

The mine couldn't fire someone for utter stupidity. The guy was speeding, drunk, and behind the wheel of one of the hauling trucks, all the mine could do is slap his wrist even though he put the company at risk with his stupidity. The union prevents the firing of said employees. In fact, the union demanded two weeks paid vacation for that employee so he could "dry out" while the paperwork was being filed for his "warning".

Anyways, that's my little rant. I agree in principle with the "union" a group of workers who band together to fight for fair pay and benefits, but what they have become today is a disgrace, and it makes outsourcing a necessity for many American companies.

What are you're opinions on unions?

I'd say fine, and would you please sign this liability paperwork, because we don't accept responsibility for his actions anymore. He is now an agent of the Union. Another words, it's a safety problem, and if they prevent it, they should pay for any damages he causes. The union's got money, they can pay him to dry out.

Unions are great. They all stand together to keep their jobs. And, then they all get laid off at the same time, because they got too greedy. If I were GM. I'd shut all my plants down, and put out a call for jobs. $20 /hr plus benefits. Rehire the entire company if I had too.

 

[luvtoride]

Unions are great. They all stand together to keep their jobs. And, then they all get laid off at the same time, because they got too greedy. If I were GM. I'd shut all my plants down, and put out a call for jobs. $20 /hr plus benefits. Rehire the entire company if I had too.

 

[spring snow hero]

things must be a bit different here. I work for a union company, we can guys for a LOT less then that, no questions asked.

I think the problem lies in the contract between the Co and the union......if the company is dumb enough to allow the verbage for those action into the contract.....who's fault is that?

BTW a $20 per hour employee is not a heck of a lot cheaper then those that GM had. add up insurance, unemployment, medical, dental, vision, vacation, sick time.......so on, that $20 guy is costing more like $40 per hour.

FWIW, I am currently union, I despise the political BS, and even though I am not an electrician, I change light bulbs at work. even though I am not a teamster I drive truck as needed....My company pays me well and treats me even better.

do I feel protected by my union......NO, do I like the wages and benefits, YES. would I work for a non union employer if this one dried up.....YES. do I think that employer would pay25 bux an hour and pay for my families medical and retirement........never seen it before in the construction trade.

 

[luvtoride]

things must be a bit different here. I work for a union company, we can guys for a LOT less then that, no questions asked.

I think the problem lies in the contract between the Co and the union......if the company is dumb enough to allow the verbage for those action into the contract.....who's fault is that?

BTW a $20 per hour employee is not a heck of a lot cheaper then those that GM had. add up insurance, unemployment, medical, dental, vision, vacation, sick time.......so on, that $20 guy is costing more like $40 per hour.

FWIW, I am currently union, I despise the political BS, and even though I am not an electrician, I change light bulbs at work. even though I am not a teamster I drive truck as needed....My company pays me well and treats me even better.

do I feel protected by my union......NO, do I like the wages and benefits, YES. would I work for a non union employer if this one dried up.....YES. do I think that employer would pay25 bux an hour and pay for my families medical and retirement........never seen it before in the construction trade.

I wish I had to deal with union workers like you up here!

You aren't an electrician, but you change bulbs.

That sentence right there sums it all up. The unions up here have strict rules against that sort of thing. If you aren't certified, beg and moan until they send someone who is. And its usually for little crap like that, changing light bulbs, moving a truck from one side of the pit to the other (everyone has had the training, but they need *special union certification* to operate vehicles like that). I took M-shea training last year and every day, they told us things like *its the companies fault if your screw up, they should have trained you better* and crap like that. Workers up here aren't responsible for their own actions anymore, its sad.

 

[mtn_extreme]

I'd say fine, and would you please sign this liability paperwork, because we don't accept responsibility for his actions anymore. He is now an agent of the Union. Another words, it's a safety problem, and if they prevent it, they should pay for any damages he causes. The union's got money, they can pay him to dry out.

Unions are great. They all stand together to keep their jobs. And, then they all get laid off at the same time, because they got too greedy. If I were GM. I'd shut all my plants down, and put out a call for jobs. $20 /hr plus benefits. Rehire the entire company if I had too.

I think you have to consider the reason unions were started in the first place. Overall, thay have a place if nothing more than a means of checks and balances. What about if you were to go to the unions and say hey: either you drop you union pay scale down to 20.00 an hour or we will do away with the union completely, my bet is that they would work with the govt and get back to a realistic base.

 

[H2SNOW]

was Teamsters 213 a long time ago ....like doing it myslef thanks

 

[Mafesto]

Like most things in life, there are 2 side to every story.

I do not like unions.
I am of the mindset that if you are not satisfied with the compensation of your position.....
you first go to the boss & address the issue, if it cannot be resolved, find a better job.

I do realize it is not always that simple though.

But anyway, I voted "no".

 

[mad1818]

At my job we're union. They sure help the wages and benefits. I don't like the fact that the "idiots" get paid the same as someone that busts their butt. And it's an act of congress to get someone fired. You better be documenting every screw up someone does for at least a year to get them out of there! I would say I'm neutral as far as if I like union or not. If pay and benefits outweigh working with deadbeats, then union is okay I guess.

 

[Mafesto]

At my job we're union. They sure help the wages and benefits. I don't like the fact that the "idiots" get paid the same as someone that busts their butt. And it's an act of congress to get someone fired. You better be documenting every screw up someone does for at least a year to get them out of there! I would say I'm neutral as far as if I like union or not. If pay and benefits outweigh working with deadbeats, then union is okay I guess.

The problem is that the general population paints all union workers with the same brush.
That means you are lumped in the same group as those lazy "idiots" that you have to work around.

 

[spring snow hero]

Like most things in life, there are 2 side to every story.

I do not like unions.
I am of the mindset that if you are not satisfied with the compensation of your position.....
you first go to the boss & address the issue, if it cannot be resolved, find a better job.

I do realize it is not always that simple though.

But anyway, I voted "no".

just because you are union does not mean you can't make more then the other guys.....just not less.........ask me how I know

 

[mtn_extreme]

You all must not have be very old or very good at history.

I am not union but do understand that if someone doesn't protect the value of your labor, you will be working for 25 cents a week again.

Like most things in life, there are 2 side to every story.

I do not like unions.
I am of the mindset that if you are not satisfied with the compensation of your position.....
you first go to the boss & address the issue, if it cannot be resolved, find a better job.

I do realize it is not always that simple though.

But anyway, I voted "no".

Your right, it isn't that easy. There is always someone that is willing to work that same job for less money (especially immigrants). Unions protect that wage to some degree and it affects those that do and "do not" belong. Study your history books and see what things were like before the unions existed.

 

[niner49]

Limiting unions are fine with me. Private industry should be able to be non Union because private industry is market driven, based on profit and loss of the company when a Union worker makes more than the boss that is beyond being reasonable.

But what about public employees? let's say government workers? a worker does not control how money is spent or wasted? only what they do! Example, Cali is in a financial bind because the elected officials throw so much money at special interests or welfare type programs waste money at will, so without a Union why would a public employee ever get a raise? I can't walk into the Governors office and ask for a raise and when he needs to cut spending just don't give raises easy and raise taxes!

With that being said..Yes there are some really crappy public employees but if managers properly document the problems and have the guts to let them go, the union can't just say no! as a manger for a public entity I find most of my peer group fails to document issues and therefore bad apples just get moved around not let go!

 

[Mafesto]

You all must not have be very old or very good at history.

I am not union but do understand that if someone doesn't protect the value of your labor, you will be working for 25 cents a week again.






Your right, it isn't that easy. There is always someone that is willing to work that same job for less money (especially immigrants). Unions protect that wage to some degree and it affects those that do and "do not" belong. Study your history books and see what things were like before the unions existed.

That was a different economic world in those days.

We have to compete on a global market.
In order to compete, all aspects of business neads to operate in a lean efficient manner.
That certainly includes compensation.(across the board)

 

[mtn_extreme]

That was a different economic world in those days.

We have to compete on a global market.
In order to compete, all aspects of business neads to operate in a lean efficient manner.
That certainly includes compensation.(across the board)

Time and again, history has proven to mirror things that transend in todays world. Don't just assume that would not be the case, it could bite you in the azz.

 

[mad1818]

With that being said..Yes there are some really crappy public employees but if managers properly document the problems and have the guts to let them go, the union can't just say no! as a manger for a public entity I find most of my peer group fails to document issues and therefore bad apples just get moved around not let go!

That's how it works where I work. I shouldn't complain too much though. We have a lot of good employees.

 

[Ollie]

Unions were needed when they were born.
However, the problems with current unions is the same as when you have any organization that no longer has a purpose (i.e. enviro's).

When their purpose has been served, they lose focus and no longer serve the purpose for which they were made.

Unions were formed to stop the rampant abuse of employees. To stop child labor, to force big buisness to increase work place safety and to force them to pay a living wage.
Now they survive to do nothing more than survive. Wages are out of control, benifits are out of control, costs of labor are out of control.

It's time for the unions to go away.

 

[Puff_N_AK]

Unions are a joke. I was in one a long time ago. They did nothing for me. The way i see it they are all in it for the all mighty dollar. My opinion is that all the guys that are in there are being ripped off. Have some rep come come around once a month to preach why you need to stand united, while they drive off in their new caddy or lincoln with your hard earned dollars in their hands, while you drive off in your 10 yr old toyota or honda heading home for some top ramman.

 

[Mag]

things must be a bit different here. I work for a union company, we can guys for a LOT less then that, no questions asked.

I think the problem lies in the contract between the Co and the union......if the company is dumb enough to allow the verbage for those action into the contract.....who's fault is that?

BTW a $20 per hour employee is not a heck of a lot cheaper then those that GM had. add up insurance, unemployment, medical, dental, vision, vacation, sick time.......so on, that $20 guy is costing more like $40 per hour.

FWIW, I am currently union, I despise the political BS, and even though I am not an electrician, I change light bulbs at work. even though I am not a teamster I drive truck as needed....My company pays me well and treats me even better.

do I feel protected by my union......NO, do I like the wages and benefits, YES. would I work for a non union employer if this one dried up.....YES. do I think that employer would pay25 bux an hour and pay for my families medical and retirement........never seen it before in the construction trade.

Well put, most of my crew's are union and with benefits make an average of $55 per hr. When all the 401 k plan's took a hit last year my retirement stayed strong. I'll retire at 52 at well over $10g a month thank's to the union. I can fire anyone at anytime for just cause and I can also hire "Joe blough" off the street and get them dispatched thru the union. There are still a few of the neanderthal's that think they only have to do what they where dispatched for, but their number's are shrinking and they would never last working for me. The contract between the company and the union is what set's the rule's.

 

[Nate]

Dislike Unions. Work around unions. Socialist idea in my opinion. I have seen quite a few poor crafted electricians come from the union. Have also seen some of the greatest as well. But their thought process is scary