Apex vs 800 class sleds - shoot me now

[jason leckner]

ape or 8

i have to agree with spur..im 6'4" and weigh 260,,i grabed ahold of a 2007 apex se,,piped it. clutched it .and geard it..and i rode that s.o.b in some of the craziest spots you could imagine..i've side hilled,wraped my way threw the thickest trees,,jumped off of cornices diped down into the creek bottoms and poped out screaming hell yeah m.fr's..and then i have rode down the trail in comfort at the end of the day.while my pals have followed me the whole way...i have been stuck where i could of used a tow truck to get me out also..then i turbo'd that basterd..now i realy toss it around..but thats me and the way i ride..you should figure out what is best for you..try them all out..see what you can handle..thats my two bit's

 

[poorider]

line up a stock apex mountain beside any 800 or 700 mountain sled with a 151 or longer track made in the last 5 years or so on a straight shot, no skills involved full bar pow climb and the apex will get outclimbed every time, I don't care how experienced you are. experience does not make the track speed higher or the machine lighter.
Yes in the right hands any machine will look better, but how many pro riders do you see on bone stock 4 strokes? Quite a few out there on stock 800's I wonder why that is?

 

[Frostbite]

One benefit of riding a four stroke in the mountains over time is once you learn to ride that big old girl a lightweight two stroke feels like a toy. I found that when I bought the M8. I also found I had to use about 1/3 of the amount of rider input to get the new sled to do what I wanted to do and I had more energy after a long day of riding.

That being said, an Apex in the right hands can be a very effective tool. I have ridden them in the powder and climbed with them several times and they perform much better than a sled this big has any right to perform. The fit, finish, sound quality, top speed and reliablility are all excellent. If you use your sled as more of a crossover, it may be a great choice.

One other thing is, these dang fourstrokes just last forever. I have ridden mine now for 8 seasons and never ever had an issue (that I didn't cause). I sure didn't need a new sled but, the problem is, you end up wanting a new sled because you're accustomed to buying a new sled every few years. Yet, in terms of how long the fourstrokes will last, you've barely scratched the surface of its potential useful life. So, if you're like me it's kind of tough to rationalize buying a new sled when the one you have works like the day it was new...........only better.

 

[MEAT]

I have a stock Apex and hang with the 800's all day long. The only time they out pull me is on a long hill in fresh powder where the weight catches up to it. I took some time to set it up and learn to ride it, went to the Challenger Extreme, Simmons Gen2 skiis and a few other things and it flat out rips now. My buddies all ride 800's and they are always suprised how well it works. In my riding group I get stuck the least and that includes riding exclusivley with the XPs. That said when she is stuck it is Stuck!

Bottom line is try one out that is well set up so you can see what they are capable of and watch someone that has the hours on it show you what it can do. I jump on my buddies sleds and they feel foreign to me and I am sure they feel the same about the Apex. Anyone can learn to ride anything. I love mine.

 

[89sandman]

an experienced rider would just leave the yammi in the trailer...

 

[Frostbite]

Now that's not very nice to say Sandman!

Come on fat chicks need love too....

No really, they really can be a great sled in the right hands. They really teach you to ride.

 

[RideRevy]

Poorider, who rides straight up and down all day? sounds kinda boring unless you have a turbo and the skies are in the air.

 

[Nor-val]

Nicest thing about any 4-stroke is at 3000km when 2-strokers are re-freshing their motors, buy some boost. At 6000 km - change suspension. At 9000 km- fresh paint ? At 11,000km - add up how many sleds your friends have been through. Properly maintained, they are bullet-proof. IMO

 

[Spur]

line up a stock apex mountain beside any 800 or 700 mountain sled with a 151 or longer track made in the last 5 years or so on a straight shot, no skills involved full bar pow climb and the apex will get outclimbed every time, I don't care how experienced you are. experience does not make the track speed higher or the machine lighter.
Yes in the right hands any machine will look better, but how many pro riders do you see on bone stock 4 strokes? Quite a few out there on stock 800's I wonder why that is?

Not true. I just watched this very test last week. 09 stock Apex, 2010 stock XP, 09 stock M8. The owner of the M8 was without a doubt the best rider in the group. He out pulled both the Apex and the XP by a considerable amount on his M8. He traded sleds with both owners and out pulled them on the Apex, and then on the XP. ( Yes, no matter how hard it hurts I watch a guy on a stock Apex that was not even his out pull a 2010 XP) He was the heaviest rider of the three by 30 pds, and did not out pull the others by a small margin, it was like 40+ feet. Same hill, same snow conditions. I can't explain how he did this, but I watched it with my own eye's. Convinced it has more to do with him understanding how and when to bring the track speed back up and keeping the sled on top of the snow. Body position had something to do with it as well. This is all on video and I will try to upload tonight. When he came off the hill with the high mark on the Apex he hit the tree's for a few minutes. We could not see him most of the time, but you could hear the sled working, and all he said when he got off of it was wow, that sled has amazing torque and balance. I watched him ride the rest of the day and all I can tell you this, you could have put him on any sled in our group and he would have out rode any rider in the group by a fair margin, and this was a very experienced group of guys.

Say what you will, but you can't over come experience, and I'm going to add talent to the list, no matter what sled you ride. I know that's hard on your ego when you think your a great rider, but if you can't make the Apex work it's from lack of experience. Be careful, the day may come when a guy on a stock Apex puts you in your place.

 

[RX1MountainMan]

I know it's probably been beat to death already, but.......

In the hands of an experienced mountain rider, how well does an Apex 162 (stock vs stock) hang against the newer 800 class sleds with 153-162 tracks while boondocking and doing some climbing, etc?

I'm coming off a 2004 Cat 1m 900 151 (stock). Would the Apex be a step up?

Definitely a step up! All you ever hear about is everybody *****ing about the weight...yes they are heavier...but I enjoy riding back under my own power, you can poke around in the trees all day long without it loading up, 4,000 miles on the RX-1 original belt and plugs, 2,700 mile on my Apex original belt and plugs...I was a die hard Cat fan until i bought the Yamaha's and now I would never go back...they are all heavy when they are stuck and the skid is full of snow...I have never seen anyone packing a sled of any brand out on their back! I put Simmons Gen II skis on mine but the stock ones were good too (just got chewed up from the rocks) I just bought a clutching/gearing setup from Dustin at Outlaw and would like to put a Camo extreme under it at some point, other than that it is all stock and I have a ball riding it!

 

[MEAT]

Just got back from a ride on mine and again nobody left me behind. Everytime I ride the Apex I love it a little more.

 

[2XM3]

Sorry but there in NFW a 700+ pound sled with 150 hp is gunna outpull a 486 pound sled with 168 hp....period.. And I own both, and I ride about 4500 miles a year all steep and deep. And my 420 lb 225 hp sled leaves both for dead anywhere.
I love my apex and yes it will go most anywhere BUT the same rider on all 3?? Well sorry but its just simple power to weight ratio.

You want a good comparo?? Ok same hill,same rider, (me) same day,same snow. timed from same spot. Ran both pulls next to each other no track poaching..My apex 174 camo ext,19/43 gear outlaw clutches,-96 pounds from stock...My wifes D700,pipe,can stock gears and clutching,holtz front and rear suspention 155 pol series 5 track....Guess what?? timed runs. I pinned it all the way up to top...DEAD EVEN TIMES...
Apex with rider..5.33 lbs/hp dragon with rider 5.29 lbs/hp Now add 96 pounds to Apex and stock20/40 gear.....

Its just about what u like to ride...best advise?? Try both sled types and make ur own decision...hahhaha thats why I have 3 sleds..

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[poorider]

Not true. I just watched this very test last week. 09 stock Apex, 2010 stock XP, 09 stock M8. The owner of the M8 was without a doubt the best rider in the group. He out pulled both the Apex and the XP by a considerable amount on his M8. He traded sleds with both owners and out pulled them on the Apex, and then on the XP. ( Yes, no matter how hard it hurts I watch a guy on a stock Apex that was not even his out pull a 2010 XP) He was the heaviest rider of the three by 30 pds, and did not out pull the others by a small margin, it was like 40+ feet. Same hill, same snow conditions. I can't explain how he did this, but I watched it with my own eye's. Convinced it has more to do with him understanding how and when to bring the track speed back up and keeping the sled on top of the snow. Body position had something to do with it as well. This is all on video and I will try to upload tonight. When he came off the hill with the high mark on the Apex he hit the tree's for a few minutes. We could not see him most of the time, but you could hear the sled working, and all he said when he got off of it was wow, that sled has amazing torque and balance. I watched him ride the rest of the day and all I can tell you this, you could have put him on any sled in our group and he would have out rode any rider in the group by a fair margin, and this was a very experienced group of guys.

Say what you will, but you can't over come experience, and I'm going to add talent to the list, no matter what sled you ride. I know that's hard on your ego when you think your a great rider, but if you can't make the Apex work it's from lack of experience. Be careful, the day may come when a guy on a stock Apex puts you in your place.

wow that's great, so you put a good rider up against 2 retarded ones. How does this make the apex better?
I absolutely guarantee there is no rider that is going to jump on a stock apex and outpull or outride me on my stock 700 in any conditions. Seen it many times my friend. Guess that means I'm inexperienced?

 

[Drifter]

I have a stock Apex and hang with the 800's all day long. The only time they out pull me is on a long hill in fresh powder where the weight catches up to it. I took some time to set it up and learn to ride it, went to the Challenger Extreme, Simmons Gen2 skiis and a few other things and it flat out rips now. My buddies all ride 800's and they are always suprised how well it works. In my riding group I get stuck the least and that includes riding exclusivley with the XPs. That said when she is stuck it is Stuck!

Bottom line is try one out that is well set up so you can see what they are capable of and watch someone that has the hours on it show you what it can do. I jump on my buddies sleds and they feel foreign to me and I am sure they feel the same about the Apex. Anyone can learn to ride anything. I love mine.

Try all that on a 800 2-stroke and really leave your buddys in the dust.

After the rider it all comes to down to your horse power to weight ratio. The Apex just doesnt have it. Its frickin heavy reliable but heavy. If all I rode was trails the sure a yamaha would be choice #1. For the step and deep not a chance to HEAVY!!!

 

[MEAT]

something interesting to try would be take the apex figure out with rider ready to ride what it weighs. Then add that weight to another sled so both are identical and see which one climbs higher. I think it would be cool to see which sled would come out on top out of the big 4.

 

[poorider]

something interesting to try would be take the apex figure out with rider ready to ride what it weighs. Then add that weight to another sled so both are identical and see which one climbs higher. I think it would be cool to see which sled would come out on top out of the big 4.

Hmmm, almost sounds like you're admitting your apex can't get around as good as a lighter sled. That's funny, I thought Spur said that if you think 2 strokes work better it means you are obviously inexperienced. I'm confused

 

[adrenaline junkey]

line up a stock apex mountain beside any 800 or 700 mountain sled with a 151 or longer track made in the last 5 years or so on a straight shot, no skills involved full bar pow climb and the apex will get outclimbed every time, I don't care how experienced you are. experience does not make the track speed higher or the machine lighter.
Yes in the right hands any machine will look better, but how many pro riders do you see on bone stock 4 strokes? Quite a few out there on stock 800's I wonder why that is?

lmao thanks I havent heard somthing so far from the truth in a long time

 

[MEAT]

Hmmm, almost sounds like you're admitting your apex can't get around as good as a lighter sled. That's funny, I thought Spur said that if you think 2 strokes work better it means you are obviously inexperienced. I'm confused

Nope gets around fine. I would just like to see if weight is the almighty factor. We seem to be talking about who will make it higher on the hill so I was thinking if weight was equal between all the sleds then the better setup should dictate who gets the Highmark.

 

[APEXMTXQC]

like a summit 800r with a 300 pound guy and a apex with a 150 pounds guy who would go higher ??????????

overall sled with rider weight would be nearly the same

 

[Kachess1]

On lightenned RX-1's with 159's we regularly grind past new "stock" 800's on hills in deep, untouched, snow. I'm sure the fact that we only weigh 135lbs and most of the guys on the 800's are "big boys" explains a lot of it. But we we're climbing past a similarly set up Apex this past weekend. He was the same weight with 12 more hp, but was running the maveick 16x162. So although power/weight ratio is part of the equation, the track, clutching, and suspension setup can have a big impact when climbing. When it comes to boondocking and handling, sled balance can be just as important as the sled's weight. Of course that's coming from a guy who rides a fat sled.