Anyone have tested the Team TIED on their machine yet ?

[brahm]

Are you getting more track speed with the tied brahm.
Also Do you feel like it pulls harder when accelerating or about the same as the 04 team?

I am getting more track speed, and it does pull harder, but I can't say how much of that is attributed to the clutch, and how much is attributed to the gear reduction, and work I've done on the motor (head, and fully going threw the intake, carbs, ect).

I can say though, all of last season, and at the start of this season I fought with an issue where the sled would die under load, and I couldn't get my full rpm range. With the stock clutch I was over back shifting getting out of my powerband and dying.

Replacing the secondary, and going threw my primary with teams specs (to match the secondary) eliminated those problems. After a couple adjustments (first weights were off a little but not by much) My clutch is now in a state where I can adjust the RPM band where ever I want it, it seems to shift alot quicker, and It runs alot cooler, I'm not showing any belt wear on my sheeves either (no blackmarks ect). All in all happy with the purchase, I never had the older tied so I can't compare it.

I don't know if I would have made the switch if my stock clutch was working properly, but with my stock clutching dying after one season (500-600 miles for me), and me having to spend an entire season fighting with it last year. I was happy to give something else try.

 

[briand]

OK finally got my tied secondary and tried it out a home here. This is on a 03 800 Vertical edge.

First off i noticed when i installed it the off set was not right and had to add some washers on the outside end of the drive shaft and some on the inside .
Make sure when you install this that you check the offset. I can see a belt getting destroyed really fast if not checked.

Did not get to try it much yet -27 c here for the last few days so just made a few runs. Tried it with the red blue spring and a 73-65.46 helix. Definitely pulls harder all the way trough. had about 6 inches of fresh snow top speed got up to 75 mph before i had to let off. The red blue springs seems to be to soft and when it warms up i will try a 140-240 spring then a 160-240 spring then a 160-260 spring.

It also seems that this clutch might need a different profile of primary weight and, or less primary spring end rate (say 260 up to maybe 300 end rate.)
I have the MTX weight and think i will need a heavier tip ( maybe 1 to 2 grams more) then the ts 98 clutch.

I guess we will see.

 

[BIGGDAWG]

OK finally got my tied secondary and tried it out a home here. This is on a 03 800 Vertical edge.

First off i noticed when i installed it the off set was not right and had to add some washers on the outside end of the drive shaft and some on the inside .
Make sure when you install this that you check the offset. I can see a belt getting destroyed really fast if not checked.

Did not get to try it much yet -27 c here for the last few days so just made a few runs. Tried it with the red blue spring and a 73-65.46 helix. Definitely pulls harder all the way trough. had about 6 inches of fresh snow top speed got up to 75 mph before i had to let off. The red blue springs seems to be to soft and when it warms up i will try a 140-240 spring then a 160-240 spring then a 160-260 spring.

It also seems that this clutch might need a different profile of primary weight and, or less primary spring end rate (say 260 up to maybe 300 end rate.)
I have the MTX weight and think i will need a heavier tip ( maybe 1 to 2 grams more) then the ts 98 clutch.

I guess we will see.

what we have found with ours is we have to run a little less primary weight than before. it loads the motor so much more.

 

[briand]

That might be what i'll find too. I can't really tell with just 1 or 2 runs down a test track but my initial thought was maybee more tip weight.
Never thought of the red green 120-220 spring in the secondary. How is it working for you?

I thought that the 120 initial might be to low for me.

 

[BIGGDAWG]

That might be what i'll find too. I can't really tell with just 1 or 2 runs down a test track but my initial thought was maybee more tip weight.
Never thought of the red green 120-220 spring in the secondary. How is it working for you?

I thought that the 120 initial might be to low for me.

seems to be working good it may be a little soft but i can't complain it is better than the tss98 set up i had.

 

[TLKDPROD]

Finally got to try mine too 2 week-end ago in the deep stuff at elevation with my 800 Snow-Hawk 14"x150" CE Track. I was amazed how well it would backshift/hold RPM (66-62.33 Helix & Red-Black 140-240 spring). Didn't do any change to the primary beside adding weight to the pins because of a new exhaust. Pulled its 8000 pretty good all 2 days so I guess I'm ok on that part. Right now the next thing I want to try is go with a slightly softer finish on the primary spring.

Let's keep this thread going guys we're the guinea pigs, I think it's important to share our findings.

 

[brahm]

Update on mine, had a solid 4 days of back to back deep powder riding (we got a 8-10' foot dump over the past week). The clutch held up great stayed relatively cool with constant long pulls, and never left me wishing I could get more out of it like my old clutch did , which after prolonged usage would bog, or die via bad backshifting mid run which would often leave me stuck and needing to do alot of shoveling. This weekend the only time I had to dig out was when I made bad judgment calls. The more time i have on it, the happier I am.

Very happy with the performance in the deep, didn't do to much steep but the few climbs I did go for the sled out preformed me! The only odd thing I noticed is my belt ride height dropped down a lot lower then it was. I don't know if it's the new belt stretching or something else. I'm going to re-adjust it to where it should sit, and then see what happens after the next few rides.

 

[briand]

Could you explain a little more what you mean on "belt ride height dropped down". I assume you mean that the belt rides lower in the secondary now then when the belt was new when you are stooped?

 

[brahm]

Could you explain a little more what you mean on "belt ride height dropped down". I assume you mean that the belt rides lower in the secondary now then when the belt was new when you are stooped?

Correct, so where the belt sits in the secondary, it used to sit about an 1/8th of an inch or so out of the secondary when not running, now it's sitting flush, and the deflection is way up.

 

[briand]

if this clutch works anything like a pargon it will not work properly with out primary changes, i had to go very light on primary spring to get it to really pull and not shred belts.

You might be right gopher. I tested this tied on Friday and found the the secondary does seem to preform better with the red blue 140-200 spring then the red black 140- 240 spring. Still it seems to be holding back some. also does not seem to like the mtx weights. seem to come on too hard then pull very well after that then fall off in the top end. RPM begins in the 7500 to 7700 to 20 mph then 7950 to the top end. still pulls good but could be better. I'm going to try going with less primary spring end rate maybe in the 260 -280 range.

When i had the red blue or the red black secondary spring, rpms remained the same 7950. But the red blue spring pulled about 3 mph more in a 660 ft test.

Very interesting clutch to say the least.

 

[briand]

UPDATE

Ok did some testing this morning (Feb 1st) but his time changes in the primary as follows

primary spring changed from almond 140-330 to a red Polaris 120- 245 nearly a 90 pound drop in the final rate.

Performance increased at the top end and pulled harder from mid range up. gained about 2-3 mph in 660 ft. Up shifts harder and still back-shifts very well
Does not seemed to matter how low of a spring rate you put in it still pulls and maintains rpm Going to try to go lower yet. Have one more to try 112-200
Don't know how this will work in the steep & deep but will try it in a few weeks.

 

[gopher-it!]

springs

UPDATE

Ok did some testing this morning (Feb 1st) but his time changes in the primary as follows

primary spring changed from almond 140-330 to a red Polaris 120- 245 nearly a 90 pound drop in the final rate.

Performance increased at the top end and pulled harder from mid range up. gained about 2-3 mph in 660 ft. Up shifts harder and still back-shifts very well
Does not seemed to matter how low of a spring rate you put in it still pulls and maintains rpm Going to try to go lower yet. Have one more to try 112-200
Don't know how this will work in the steep & deep but will try it in a few weeks.

its been awhile but i believe i had a 70/130 spring with 60s or 62 in my 860, it would pull just under 70 mph up hill, escape with 151. funny when peope would line up just to ride it. if the tied works similar when you get it dialed it will rip. comeparing tied to paragon helixes it seems like the tied are too steep, time will tell. keep us informed how you make out.

 

[briand]

Well i have a 40-140 primary from a quad i could use just to try. The helix angles sound steep maybe it won't work in the mountains I don't know but from what i have tested here in a foot of powder on and off and back on the throttle it still back-shifts very well so i guess we will see.

Curious what helix & spring did you run in your paragon?

 

[gopher-it!]

tied

Well i have a 40-140 primary from a quad i could use just to try. The helix angles sound steep maybe it won't work in the mountains I don't know but from what i have tested here in a foot of powder on and off and back on the throttle it still back-shifts very well so i guess we will see.

Curious what helix & spring did you run in your paragon?

60/58 helix and the paragon secondary spring, was slightly softer than cat yellow, tried lots and that spring worked the best. bought about 15 of polaris drive springs in the lighter range and started testing.

 

[briand]

Well today I tried the 112 - 200 primary and with The MTX 68 grams weights with 2 grams in the tip it would not pull good at take off. Would rev to about 7600 till 20 MPH then hit 7950 - 8000 to top end 80 mph. Could never get the MTX to preform well in the bottom end so gave up on them for now.

So I started all over again this time with Polaris 66 gram weights and hears what worked so far

Primary setup
EPI spring 140-280
66 gram weights

Secondary setup team tied
red blue Secondary team spring 140-200 (have a 100-150 team to try)
73-65.46 helix.


Sled pulled very good all the way through 7900 at bottom end to 7950-800 mid to top end. Best run with this setup. Even better then my best MTX 68 gram weight setup.
For drag racing The Polaris 120 -245 red primary might work will try this maybe tomorrow.
But for the Mountains I think you will need a 140-300 spring. The 280 finish rate works good here at home 2500 ft but might hinder the back shift too much up high.


I did try the 112-200 primary spring with the 66 gram Polaris weights but it would not pull with this spring, much to bogey. RPM's never held much more then 7800 RPM's

I'm going to try to find the best clutching setup with the Polaris 66 gram weights then refine from there.

 

[briand]

Well today I tried the 100-150 team spring in the secondary and 145-280 EPI black primary spring and with the 66 grams Polaris weights. Would rev to about 7600 rpm to top end and was very sluggish. Changed out the primary to a 160-360 heel clicker primary spring, (The heaviest primary spring i have) and could get 7800 to 7950 but had no back shift if you let off or hit some loose snow and then regained traction. Really no gains from yesterday and maybe even going backwards now. Tried lighter weights 64 grams pulled less the 66 grams but had a little better back shift. Still no gain from yesterday setup.

So i gonna leave the red yellow team secondary 100-150 off for now and go back to the following setup.


Primary setup
EPI spring 140-300
66 gram weights

Secondary setup team tied
red blue Secondary team spring 140-200 with 1 derlin washer between cup and sheave.
73-65.46 helix.

For drag racing I will try the Polaris 120-245 primary spring tomorrow and report back. I did not get a chance today to test it out with the 66 gram weights.

The 140-300 seems to give me a slightly better back-shift then the 145-280 i tried yesterday and a very slight loss of performance at the top end. Maybe 1 mph. For mountain riding i think this EPI red 145-300 will be the one i use.

I have a 165-310 polaris primary i might try to see if i can get the MTX's to work better in the bottom end.

Well tomorrow is another day.

 

[briand]

Did not get a chance yesterday to do any testing. Wife had different ideas on what i should do

One thing i forgot to mention was something i noticed with the red yellow team spring secondary 100-150 was that there was very little heat and actually the secondary was actually cool to the touch after a few drag races in a row. The other thing i noticed was that when you where at part throttle say 1/4 to 1/2 throttle was that the secondary shifted out more with a lot less effort. so lets say with the other setup i ran at 1/4 throttle i was getting say 36 to 38 mph With the red yellow spring i was getting about 40-41 at same throttle position.

So i have not given up on this spring and will try different weights to see if i can get it to work.

 

[briand]

Got a chance to do more testing today


Tested the 120-245 red Polaris primary.
66 gram weights

Secondary setup Helix the same as before with the red blue spring 140-200

Basically this is the best setup i had today for drag racing. Tried others but they did not work out too good.

Here is what else i tried today
Primary
120-245 primary
55 gram thunder weights with no weight in the heel 0 gram in the mid and 2 grams in the tip.

Secondary setup
73-65.46 helix
100-150 red yellow team spring.

For drag racing was OK but not the best, held rpm's well for straight pull from beginning to end but if you let off and hit it again was very sluggish to recover. After repeated runs secondary remained cool to slight warm to touch but primary was getting quite warm to touch so i am getting primary slippage with this light weight and light spring setup. Also when pulling in 1 foot of powder the secondary was getting quite warm also and speed was down compared to the heavier setup.

So for me the light weights and light spring in the secondary don't work very well.

This setup below was the best of all for drag racing

Primary
120-245 red Polaris spring
66 gram Polaris weights.

Secondary
73-65.46 helix with 1 derlin washer between the cup and sheave
140-200 red blue team spring.

pulled hard from begging to end even if you let off and hit it again RPM's came back. In 1 foot of powder pulled very well also. primary and secondary temp were good,warm to the touch but not hot with the primary maybe just a bit warmer.

Mountain riding will be different but i think the below setup is what i will try to use in a week or so.

Primary

140-300 primary spring maybe even a 280 finish rate. Depends on back shift.
64 gram or 62 gram Polaris weights.

Secondary setup

73-63.46 with .75 spacer between the roller cup and snap-ring and 1 derlin washer between spring cup and sheave.
140-200 red blue spring and possibly a red black 140-240 for better back-shift if needed.

So what i have found so far is that the team seems to like a little less finish rate in both the primary and secondary compared to the ts 98 i had.

I going to try a heavier spring weight setup to see if there is any more to be had but realistically i doubt there will be much more to be gained.

 

[briand]

Well did so more testing with the 66 gram weights and it looks like the best setup that works for me is as follows;

Primary

145-280 spring EPI
66 gram weights

Secondary

helix same as before
140-200 red blue team spring 1 derlin washer between cup and sheave.

This setup gave it the best acceleration and decent back-shift for drag racing. The best run i had was 78mph at 660 ft.
Primary was warmer then secondary but still not hot so i think i still have slippage going on in the primary.

So i decided to give the MTX weights another shot so this is what i tried

Primary setup

120-145 red Polaris spring
68 gram MTX weights 5 grams added to tip nothing in mid hole

Secondary setup

73-65.46 helix
160-140 team black purple with 2 derlin washers between spring and cup holder and cup and sheave.

All i can say is wow! the 160-240 rate team spring woke up the MTX weights at the bottom end. RPM hit 7950 right now and hit 8050 from 2/3 to end.

This setup pulled the hardest of all setups I tried. Back-shift was excellent also.
Now i haven't fine tuned the weights in mid or the tip its just what i put together to try so there could be a little more to be had here. Gaind about 2 mph in 660ft but mainly this is all gained from 0-50 MPH range.

I will Keep you informed

 

[clutch man]

Got a chance to do more testing today


Tested the 120-245 red Polaris primary.
66 gram weights

Secondary setup Helix the same as before with the red blue spring 140-200

Basically this is the best setup i had today for drag racing. Tried others but they did not work out too good.

Here is what else i tried today
Primary
120-245 primary
55 gram thunder weights with no weight in the heel 0 gram in the mid and 2 grams in the tip.

Secondary setup
73-65.46 helix
100-150 red yellow team spring.

For drag racing was OK but not the best, held rpm's well for straight pull from beginning to end but if you let off and hit it again was very sluggish to recover. After repeated runs secondary remained cool to slight warm to touch but primary was getting quite warm to touch so i am getting primary slippage with this light weight and light spring setup. Also when pulling in 1 foot of powder the secondary was getting quite warm also and speed was down compared to the heavier setup.

So for me the light weights and light spring in the secondary don't work very well.

This setup below was the best of all for drag racing

Primary
120-245 red Polaris spring
66 gram Polaris weights.

Secondary
73-65.46 helix with 1 derlin washer between the cup and sheave
140-200 red blue team spring.

pulled hard from begging to end even if you let off and hit it again RPM's came back. In 1 foot of powder pulled very well also. primary and secondary temp were good,warm to the touch but not hot with the primary maybe just a bit warmer.

Mountain riding will be different but i think the below setup is what i will try to use in a week or so.

Primary

140-300 primary spring maybe even a 280 finish rate. Depends on back shift.
64 gram or 62 gram Polaris weights.

Secondary setup

73-63.46 with .75 spacer between the roller cup and snap-ring and 1 derlin washer between spring cup and sheave.
140-200 red blue spring and possibly a red black 140-240 for better back-shift if needed.

So what i have found so far is that the team seems to like a little less finish rate in both the primary and secondary compared to the ts 98 i had.

I going to try a heavier spring weight setup to see if there is any more to be had but realistically i doubt there will be much more to be gained.

briand
I have a 04 800 vertical escape 159 it has slp twin pipes,ported,reeds and slp air box mod. i ran 60 gram poilaris weights with a almond/red spring Had that in with my 98 with a 64-40 with a black red spring ran flawles. I did not change any thing in the primary and run a 77/57 helix with a New Black spring Same as the old black red 155/222 It runs flawles.

I dont think you will ever get that 73/65 to work your sled will never pull that steep of angle on top. you need a 77 or 75/57 helix black spring #2102182 and put put 60s with a almond/red or 62s with a almond.

Gordon
GRS Snowmobile repair