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An Answer to $4 a Gallon Gasoline

Mafesto

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
An Answer to $4 a Gallon Gasoline
American Ethanol to Reduce Oil Import Dependence

Washington – On Sunday the AAA told American consumers what most already knew – that the average price for regular unleaded gasoline hit a record $4 per gallon. Even worse, some analysts are predicting that gasoline prices will hit $4.50 by the July 4th holiday – hardly the news we need to celebrate America ’s independence.

Ethanol , America ’s homegrown renewable fuel is reducing America ’s dependence on increasingly unaffordable oil imported from the Middle East and elsewhere. According to the Energy Information Administration, U.S. ethanol production is cutting over 140,000 barrels a day of foreign oil imports. That’s over $6.6 billion a year that’s staying here at home and not lining the pockets of OPEC and other foreign oil producers.

Using ethanol to reduce our dependence on imported oil is already delivering benefits to American consumers. According to experts at Merrill Lynch and elsewhere, ethanol is helping to keep gasoline prices and oil prices 15-27% lower than they otherwise would be.

“Paying $4 or more for gasoline is devastating the budgets of millions of American families and dealing a harsh blow to our nation’s economy,” said Bob Dinneen, President of the Renewable Fuels Association. “By producing nearly 9 billion gallons of renewable fuel, America ’s ethanol producers are doing their part to reduce oil import dependence and help keep prices lower than they otherwise might be.”

According to recent analysis, the use of ethanol in America ’s gasoline market is saving the average household up to $510 per year.

“Reducing oil import dependence needs to be our number one energy policy objective and expanding biofuel production from all sources of starches and plants, wood chips and municipal waste is one proven way to do it,” concluded Dinneen.

Here’s what the experts are saying:

Ethanol keeps gasoline prices down

“If Friday's jump [in oil prices] were fully priced into retail gasoline prices, they would increase about 25 cents a gallon, [Oppenheimer & Co analyst] Fadel Gheit said. So far, that hasn't happened because low demand for gasoline, as well as a mandate for refiners to use corn-blended ethanol, has kept U.S. refining margins weak, he said.” Reuters, June 9, 2008
Without biofuels, which can be refined to produce fuels much like the ones made from petroleum, oil prices would be even higher. Merrill Lynch commodity strategist Francisco Blanch says that oil and gasoline prices would be about 15% higher if biofuel producers weren't increasing their output.” The Wall Street Journal, March 24, 2008
“…the growth in ethanol production has caused retail gasoline prices to be $0.29 to $0.40 per gallon lower than would otherwise have been the case.” Center for Agricultural and Rural Development, Iowa State University, April, 2000
Increased biofuels production reduces US and world oil demand

“Using current prices as a guide (West Texas Intermediate crude of $130 per barrel for the week ending May 23, 2008), without ethanol to expand the available fuel supply crude oil prices would be $35.70 per barrel higher than they are currently!” “Impact of Ethanol on World Oil Prices,” LECG, LLC, May 27, 2008.
“Just offsetting the biodiesel and ethanol added to the U.S. and European markets since 2005 would require around 1 million barrels a day of additional crude oil supplies to be processed.” International Energy Agency, May 12, 2008
“[In 2008] After accounting for projected increases in ethanol use, U.S. petroleum consumption is projected to fall by 330,000 bbl/d.”
Energy Information Administration, Short-term Energy Outlook, May 6, 2008
US ethanol production reduces gasoline imports

“Bill Day, a spokesman for Valero Energy Corp., the largest U.S. oil refiner, said his company foresees ethanol growth ‘offsetting gasoline imports to the U.S. ’”
Reuters, February 14, 2008.
 
I'm gonna go get a beer and some popcorn now...

Maf, I like your posts man, but you know my feelings on ethanol as it currently stands. No need to rehash this for me. Still I will have cold beer and popcorn here!
 
As Sawyer would say......................................





Shoot, shovel, shut-up!!



This country needs serious help across the entire board, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!
 
"According to recent analysis, the use of ethanol in America ’s gasoline market is saving the average household up to $510 per year."


This is simply not true!!!!!!!


Cost per mile for ethanol is higher than with gasoline!!


Cost of corn is going through the roof, and we pay much more for anything that uses corn to produce!!


This is total "B" as in B, "S" as in S.......

The economics of ethanol does not square with the hype........


I have told the story of (Ethanol-vs-gasoline)gas mileage on a few vehicles I own several times..............24% worse mileage and 15-20% less expensive than gasoline.

History will judge our attempts to use ethnol as a fuel very harshly.......

This is not the answer.......

Our answer is actually many "ANSWERS"

25 more nuclear power plants
Start drilling everywhere in the US that has oil
Immediately build 25 refineries
Tax rebates for fuel economical business and home upgrades
Rethink commuting, let some work from home more
 
Ok your driving a old style motor that will not use the octane to it's full potential that is the reason for the crappy millage.

Have you heard of the new Ford Edge motor??? V6 with V8 power. Uses the higher octane of the E85 to run very high boost. Not sure of the MPG's but I know it's very good and can run with some of the high HP cars out there.

Old tech is not an exscuse to just throw E85 down the tube give it time people. Lots of guys said a 4 stroke sled would never be worth a **** now look the Nytro with boost. Or the 4 stroke bikes same concept.

I run B20 in the ISX semi and will do so till they stop selling it. It does great just as much MPG and same power plus 20% of that money stays in the USA that right there is enough to buy it.

As for drill more oil ya sweet I agree but think of your kids or there kids way down the road when there is no oil or very little left. I look at this way if Yamaha would have never made the leap with the Rx1 they would not even be close to were we are today with the sleds same with Doo and DFI if there were no regs we would still be ridding carb sleds I bet ya it sucks they are speny and I'm sure Yamaha has taken a *** whoopin in sales for there first few years but well worth it in the long run. I think great things are bound to come out of E-85 and Bio Diesel it's just going to take time.

My 2 cents
 
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I drive and 03 flex fuel Tahoe, I have never used e-85 because here in western SD there are very few places to get it. My son is a trained GM mechanic and he advised me against switching back and forth between e-85 and unleaded because the computer in the Tahoe can take up to 50 miles to compensate for each mixture. I have used 10% ethanol but I found that my mileage drops off by about 3-4 mpg so what am I saving ? Out here in western SD most gas stations charge the same and sometimes more for the ethanol blend (10%).
 
Ya but with the higher octane of the E85 you can make a smaller lighter motor do the same thing as a larger motor more hp as well so your not working the motor as hard.

Also say you pay the same or it cost you the same why not support all the jobs that E85 makes us here in the USA and not the give some of your hard earned cash to the ragheads.
 
gallon vs. gallon, ethanol has less energy than gasoline. period. end of discussion. 76k btu's vs. 114k btu's.

Agreed, it is an indisputable fact. There is less energy in E85 than there is in E10 or straight gasoline.

Ya but with the higher octane of the E85 you can make a smaller lighter motor do the same thing as a larger motor more hp as well so your not working the motor as hard.

You can utilize a higher compression engine to get some of the power back (ie more efficient at using the energy) but it will always take more fuel to do so. I am not sure about the smaller motor. Most I have heard is you raise compression and increase timing and the loss is a lot less, (engine is now optimized for E-85 as compared to 87 octane straight gasoline) but you still can't get past the fact that there is less energy in E-85 than gasoline. It is mass equation thing, to get the same amount of power you need to have more E-85 fuel.

I tend to like the idea of supporting local US workers with biofuels. Though there are positives and negatives to it, but at least I can drive a couple of hours and see where my fuel is grown. I kind of like that idea. It does make me, cough cough feel good. I could care less about the CO2 crap as it is all BS anyways, and E-85 is a cleaner burning fuel then gasoline. We are at a good starting point. I can't wait for switch grass to become an opportunity. It will give people another reason not to mow there lawn... I am growing fuel honey! lol
 
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If the "salesmen" are right. Cellulosic Ethanol could help offset 20-30% of our gas usage. Just about what we get from the middle east.

Cellulosic_Ethanol

Many people don't believe Ethanol is a winner, in any form. They miss a couple of points, IMO. The cost of gas should include the harm of giving the MiddleEast our money. It should also include our "dependence" on unfriendly nations, and the cost of stationing troops in the area. Basically, if push comes to shove, Cellulosic Ethanol, specifically the Enzymatic or Microbial methods could save us from being held hostage.

I think the corn based Ethanol is probably a dead end. OPEC doesn't mind holding the world hostage for oil, I'm personally not worried about us using food for gas. It sucks that people are starving in the world. But, I think that has more to do with over population than our using food for gas. The world would be much worse off, with a weakened United States.
 
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Bob Dinneen, President of the Renewable Fuels Association. “ President of lets use Ethanol...

1. Ethanol is subsidized by the Federal Govt

2. It's subsidized production has upset the balance of food production and set off the rising food prices that are part of this perfect storm.

3. There are food riots in many places on the planet because of this including Brazil who converted to Ethanol.

4. The corn they use, is not the same corn we eat causing agricultural interests to switch from other crops in the ground to ethanol producing crops.

Everything in the economy is interlaced Everything!! I could give you pages of examples of what happens when govt takes control of any area. Our leaders are not chess players, can't look past one move which is politically... personal power motivated.

Remember all plays are not allowed on the table. More production, exploration, nuclear without excessive regulation which ruins the cost benefit. With enough electrical capacity for instance we could have cheap hydrogen.

The American etc oil companies control less than 20% of the worlds production. Companies owned by soverign counries control the rest.
 
I had an entire paragragh typed up about and realized it is useless. those of you that dont like ethanol arent going to change your minds. i feel like you are very misinofmed and are making judgements based on little credible information.

price of e85 in jackson mn today, $2.76
price of gas in jackson mn today, $3.82.
pencils out pretty good to me
 
with e85 you get about 5 mpg less.

Ha ha ha!
Perfect example of rhetoric.
Your statement is likely true....for a particular vehicle, but certainly not accrossed the board.

Saying 5-10% would be more accurate, net even there again it varies with different vehicles.
 
I agree with Gone Sleddin' , some people will never understand. I will agree that E-85 is not the answer, and the marketing of ethanol should be geared toward the 20 or 30 percent blends that are cheaper and more efficent. When everyone talks about the ethanol subsidies e-plants get they often forget about the true cost of gasoline. How about the billions of dollars and military lives it takes to have ships and military overseas protecting our oil interests. How about the big tax breaks to huge oil companies?
 
It is the same way here. When I am filling up the Semi I have guys come over to me all the time and tell me how my truck motor is going to fail, filters will plug, warranty void, loss of power, all kinds of MPG decrease, I can never switch back to reg diesel and that is just to name a few. Then I ask well have you ran it???

Ahhhh no is almost always the answer I get or my cousins sisters uncle's Mom ran it and it never did work???
 
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