I can tell you that it was BCA packs that failed. I read the original informalex posting which named the manufacturer. The packs have been shipped back to BCA. With BCA packs you have to pull very firmly straight down. They are not easy to deploy at the best of times.
An airbag story
- Thread starter kai
- Start date
Interesting, I remember reading a couple of posts from someone not to long ago stating any bag other than ABS was a huge risk. Is this another case of getting what you pay for???
Boy, I'm a pretty big ABS fan but that's a pretty strong statement. It may have even been me that that comment was inferred from, but to say that all others are a huge risk is a big reach.
I DO think you get what you pay for, and I feel there are a number of reasons that the ABS is a superior product, but the rest aren't THAT far behind.
BCA offers trigger retrofit kit to ease Float 30 pull forces.
The incident near Sicamous did involve Float 30 airbags. We have spoken to the snowmobilers involved and have requested their airbags so we can analyze them for any defects or other potential issues that might be related to the non-deployments.
In the meantime, based on their valuable feedback and comments from other end users, BCA has decided to decrease the pull forces necessary to deploy our airbags. We will offer an “Easy Pull Kit” immediately to those interested, as well as a trigger handle retrofit kit available this spring.
The Easy Pull Kit includes a trigger lock pin and valve stem with new geometry that decreases the pull forces necessary to activate the Float 30 airbag. Consumers can order this from BCA for $20 (our cost) plus shipping. The parts can easily be replaced by the user after discharging the compressed air from your Float 30 cylinder. Instructions will be included and an accompanying video will soon be provided on BCA’s Float airbag page: http://www.backcountryaccess.com/airbag .
This spring, we will also offer a trigger handle upgrade, replacing the existing Float 30 T-grip with the cone-shaped design that will be included on our 2011-12 Float 18, Float 30, and Float 36 airbags. This new trigger handle provides a more stable and user-friendly target for deploying the airbag. It will remain in the right shoulder strap, but will be easier to pull with either the left or right hand. The cost for this upgrade has not been determined and it will require the consumer to return his or her Float 30 to BCA. We will make an announcement when the trigger kits are available.
BCA recommends always performing a practice deployment after purchasing your Float airbag pack. This will ensure that you are familiar with the system’s operation and the pull forces required to activate it. To order your Easy Pull Kit, please contact BCA at (303)417-1345 or info@backcountryaccess.com.
Thanks for your interest and support. Like you, our goal is to have fun and, more important, stay safe!
Bruce Edgerly
VP, Backcountry Access
The incident near Sicamous did involve Float 30 airbags. We have spoken to the snowmobilers involved and have requested their airbags so we can analyze them for any defects or other potential issues that might be related to the non-deployments.
In the meantime, based on their valuable feedback and comments from other end users, BCA has decided to decrease the pull forces necessary to deploy our airbags. We will offer an “Easy Pull Kit” immediately to those interested, as well as a trigger handle retrofit kit available this spring.
The Easy Pull Kit includes a trigger lock pin and valve stem with new geometry that decreases the pull forces necessary to activate the Float 30 airbag. Consumers can order this from BCA for $20 (our cost) plus shipping. The parts can easily be replaced by the user after discharging the compressed air from your Float 30 cylinder. Instructions will be included and an accompanying video will soon be provided on BCA’s Float airbag page: http://www.backcountryaccess.com/airbag .
This spring, we will also offer a trigger handle upgrade, replacing the existing Float 30 T-grip with the cone-shaped design that will be included on our 2011-12 Float 18, Float 30, and Float 36 airbags. This new trigger handle provides a more stable and user-friendly target for deploying the airbag. It will remain in the right shoulder strap, but will be easier to pull with either the left or right hand. The cost for this upgrade has not been determined and it will require the consumer to return his or her Float 30 to BCA. We will make an announcement when the trigger kits are available.
BCA recommends always performing a practice deployment after purchasing your Float airbag pack. This will ensure that you are familiar with the system’s operation and the pull forces required to activate it. To order your Easy Pull Kit, please contact BCA at (303)417-1345 or info@backcountryaccess.com.
Thanks for your interest and support. Like you, our goal is to have fun and, more important, stay safe!
Bruce Edgerly
VP, Backcountry Access
Bruce--
Thank you for posting and letting us know whose airbags were involved and the steps your company is taking to improve your product. I have one of your 1-st generation Float 30's that I purchased new. I hope I never have to use it, but I would not have purchased a BCA product if I thought it was of inferior quality to another brand. I will be contacting your company ASAP to obtain the Easy Pull Kit, as I think keeping current on Product Improvement Programs (PIPs as they are called at my work) is important especially when a safety device is concerned. Thanks again!!
--Wrtmani
Thank you for posting and letting us know whose airbags were involved and the steps your company is taking to improve your product. I have one of your 1-st generation Float 30's that I purchased new. I hope I never have to use it, but I would not have purchased a BCA product if I thought it was of inferior quality to another brand. I will be contacting your company ASAP to obtain the Easy Pull Kit, as I think keeping current on Product Improvement Programs (PIPs as they are called at my work) is important especially when a safety device is concerned. Thanks again!!
--Wrtmani
C
CO_MapMaker
Well-known member
Edgehead
Thanks for coming on here and updating us. BCA has great customer service, my leaky canister was exchanged no questions asked.
Will this trigger handle upgrade be down lower on the strap? After wearing my pack, I have worries about how high up on the strap the trigger is and my ability to access the trigger in a hairy situation.
Truthfully, after purchasing my pack, between the leaky canister, the "hard pull" deployment and trigger being too high, I had buyers remorse and wished I had went with the ABS. I am glad to hear BCA will be making this right with it's customers. Hopefullly this upgrade will be availale ASAP and at a small cost to us, if any.
Thanks for coming on here and updating us. BCA has great customer service, my leaky canister was exchanged no questions asked.
Will this trigger handle upgrade be down lower on the strap? After wearing my pack, I have worries about how high up on the strap the trigger is and my ability to access the trigger in a hairy situation.
Truthfully, after purchasing my pack, between the leaky canister, the "hard pull" deployment and trigger being too high, I had buyers remorse and wished I had went with the ABS. I am glad to hear BCA will be making this right with it's customers. Hopefullly this upgrade will be availale ASAP and at a small cost to us, if any.
I
IceCap
Well-known member
Like the post about the PRO rider that "went to high" and got caught in a avalanche.
They said he was wearing a Avalanche airbag but did not deploy it.
When I ask why not.... they said they thought they were done climbing for the day and he had stowed away the handle.
It was a BCA backpack...... Why would a manufacture even have that as an option?
That is why I went with ABS...... All the others are less money to purchase ..... but IMO you get what you pay for.
They said he was wearing a Avalanche airbag but did not deploy it.
When I ask why not.... they said they thought they were done climbing for the day and he had stowed away the handle.
It was a BCA backpack...... Why would a manufacture even have that as an option?
That is why I went with ABS...... All the others are less money to purchase ..... but IMO you get what you pay for.
Same reason that ABS makes a removable trigger, so you can safely store and transport the bag w/o an accidental discharge. That being said, my handle would never be put away while riding if I had the BCA pack.
You can't blame a product for someone's poor judgement! All of them have ways that you could be riding unsafely (removing the abs, stowing the snowpulse or BCA, not riding with a filled can in ANY of them...) but if someone isn't smart enough to use the product properly... then it's on them.
I can't think of any reason to have a handle pulled off or stowed if the pack is on me, my ABS trigger only gets removed to make sure it's free & operating smoothly.
Sent the one I bought last year back because of this, didn't think I could reach it if needed. Seemed like a quality pack otherwise.
I ordered the BCA 30 last week, I hope it will have the update done to it! Can anyone tell me please.
D
Dustin_R
Well-known member
This is directed at everyone:
Has there been other incidents involving airbags not being deployed becasue it takes to much force to activate? I havent heard of this before and I have a Float 30 as well.
S
snowww1
Well-known member
I have deployed my Float 30 about 70 times this season for classes and retailers and never had a problem. I would recommend the retrofit kit and the new cone shaped handle for those who are concerned about the force it takes to pull. Cone shaped handle is easier to grab. Practice deploying your pack so you know what kind of force it takes to deploy.
Mike Duffy
www.avalanche1.com
Avalanche education for mountain riders
Mike Duffy
www.avalanche1.com
Avalanche education for mountain riders
D
Dustin_R
Well-known member
I agree, I just bought one for me and the wife! And for $700 each they should work for ALL user's regardless of their strength. Am I wrong here folks?
I have to say, I find this thread troubling for a specific reason.
I purchased last years model Float 30 bag early this season. BCA let me test a bag at the snow show, and I was very impressed with the bag, and the ability to refill the can without returning it to the manufacturer. Upon receiving my bag, I filled the can (It came empty) and did a test deployment. The effort required to blow the bag was the same as I recalled at the show, and very simple. No major effort at all. Filling the can is only $3.00 at my local shop, who asked for a demo, so I deployed it in the shop as well. Worked flawlessly, as expected. I've since also blown it at a Search & Rescue training. Works exactly as expected in my experience.
My buddy (Snowest member) also obtained two Float 30's at the same show. One unit last years model, the other, the most current model. (Different outer material, waterproof zips, different shape pull handle, are the primary differences that I can tell.) He called to ask how hard he had to pull as he could not get either bag to deploy when his arrived. After confirming he put it together correctly, (You cannot assemble it incorrectly) I drove to his house to check them out, and tease him for being a wimp. In his case, both bottles came filled, so I don't know which is normal as mine came empty. I can without any doubt say that you could pull until your arm broke, neither bag would deploy. We took them back apart, and reassembled, even rotating bottles between the two bags. Same outcome. No amount of effort would make them work. Since both his bottles were full, we could not take apart the trigger mechanism in the bottle to inspect it. Both bottles were returned for inspection.
As I have had my bottle filled 3 times, I've assisted in filling mine, and know how the trigger mechanism works. Other than the possibility of rotating the trigger to the wrong side of the bottle, when disassembling it to refill, there is no way it can be put together "wrong". I was, and remain, impressed with the design of the unit.
Knowing two new bags out of the box don't work, concerned me enough to blow mine again when I got home. Worked perfectly.
Reading this post, some are speculating it could be the temp of the bag, ice buildup, ect. causing the problem. The two brand new units in question I attempted to deploy were at room temp so at least with these, the problem isn't temp. related. I thought about posting about our experience as soon as I got home from my buddies house, but held off. After reading this post however, I had to put out what I have personally experienced. I have read the reply about updates to the pull handle, pull strength required, ect, but I am very interested to see what the problem is attributed to on my buddies bags as the issue with my buddies units appear to both be in the trigger within the can itself.
It's also important to note, as a long term BCA customer I purchased what they produced because they have created great, reliable products which have served me well. Having full confidence in gear that potentially could save my life, or the life of those I ride with is priceless. I am, and will remain a solid BCA customer of many of the products they build. I cannot stress enough that MY bag has worked every time I have tested it, although I will be testing it now more than ever. Which can't be a bad thing by any reasoning.
Hoping our experience is unique.
I purchased last years model Float 30 bag early this season. BCA let me test a bag at the snow show, and I was very impressed with the bag, and the ability to refill the can without returning it to the manufacturer. Upon receiving my bag, I filled the can (It came empty) and did a test deployment. The effort required to blow the bag was the same as I recalled at the show, and very simple. No major effort at all. Filling the can is only $3.00 at my local shop, who asked for a demo, so I deployed it in the shop as well. Worked flawlessly, as expected. I've since also blown it at a Search & Rescue training. Works exactly as expected in my experience.
My buddy (Snowest member) also obtained two Float 30's at the same show. One unit last years model, the other, the most current model. (Different outer material, waterproof zips, different shape pull handle, are the primary differences that I can tell.) He called to ask how hard he had to pull as he could not get either bag to deploy when his arrived. After confirming he put it together correctly, (You cannot assemble it incorrectly) I drove to his house to check them out, and tease him for being a wimp. In his case, both bottles came filled, so I don't know which is normal as mine came empty. I can without any doubt say that you could pull until your arm broke, neither bag would deploy. We took them back apart, and reassembled, even rotating bottles between the two bags. Same outcome. No amount of effort would make them work. Since both his bottles were full, we could not take apart the trigger mechanism in the bottle to inspect it. Both bottles were returned for inspection.
As I have had my bottle filled 3 times, I've assisted in filling mine, and know how the trigger mechanism works. Other than the possibility of rotating the trigger to the wrong side of the bottle, when disassembling it to refill, there is no way it can be put together "wrong". I was, and remain, impressed with the design of the unit.
Knowing two new bags out of the box don't work, concerned me enough to blow mine again when I got home. Worked perfectly.
Reading this post, some are speculating it could be the temp of the bag, ice buildup, ect. causing the problem. The two brand new units in question I attempted to deploy were at room temp so at least with these, the problem isn't temp. related. I thought about posting about our experience as soon as I got home from my buddies house, but held off. After reading this post however, I had to put out what I have personally experienced. I have read the reply about updates to the pull handle, pull strength required, ect, but I am very interested to see what the problem is attributed to on my buddies bags as the issue with my buddies units appear to both be in the trigger within the can itself.
It's also important to note, as a long term BCA customer I purchased what they produced because they have created great, reliable products which have served me well. Having full confidence in gear that potentially could save my life, or the life of those I ride with is priceless. I am, and will remain a solid BCA customer of many of the products they build. I cannot stress enough that MY bag has worked every time I have tested it, although I will be testing it now more than ever. Which can't be a bad thing by any reasoning.
Hoping our experience is unique.
C
C S Fever
Active member
Thanks for telling your experience with your buddies pack. I bought a 2nd gen Float 30 and liked what I saw I too did a test deployment but it was with their canister not the prefilled one that came with my pack. Now I think I am going to have to blow it off with my canister to make sure this is not an issue that I will have do deal with! Thanks again to all who have posted! This is a real eye opener!!!
CS,
BCA provides a small zip lock bag with I believe 5 small rubber O rings in it. The O ring on your trigger mechanism in the canister should be replaced each time the bottle is refilled. Once you have blown the can, you will be able to disassemble the trigger using the supplied hex wrench. (Trying to loosen it under pressure would be an exceptionally poor idea) Remove the two hex bolts on top of the can, unscrew the trigger mechanism from the side, and the trigger itself can now be removed from the top. It is likely the O ring will have blown out of it's seat, but this would be due to the high PSI and normal in my experience. I have my can filled by the local paint ball shop.
I'd strongly say to anyone who has one and hasn't tested it with YOUR can, to do so, as is suggested by BCA.
Hoping yours blows.
BCA provides a small zip lock bag with I believe 5 small rubber O rings in it. The O ring on your trigger mechanism in the canister should be replaced each time the bottle is refilled. Once you have blown the can, you will be able to disassemble the trigger using the supplied hex wrench. (Trying to loosen it under pressure would be an exceptionally poor idea) Remove the two hex bolts on top of the can, unscrew the trigger mechanism from the side, and the trigger itself can now be removed from the top. It is likely the O ring will have blown out of it's seat, but this would be due to the high PSI and normal in my experience. I have my can filled by the local paint ball shop.
I'd strongly say to anyone who has one and hasn't tested it with YOUR can, to do so, as is suggested by BCA.
Hoping yours blows.
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