Ahhh, our great President of the United States

[Supplicate]

What Ollie said

 

[TDubya]

It's war.

.... and civilized countries follow the laws of the Geneva Convention. Terrorists do not. If you use the tactics of the terrorists .... what does that make you????


Bush's problems with the GC have little to do with torture. It's the capativity and the designation of the prisoners in Cuba. Are they POW's or are they regular prisoners.

If a country declares war on another country and they capture prisoners, these prisoners are POW's. After the war and sometimes during, these prisoners are released or exchanged.

Afghanistan and Iraq are both controlled by allied forces at this time .... sooooooo one would expect all POW's to be released.

This is where Bush is running into legal issues. He has to distinguish these "old" prisoners as something other then POW's.

..... and if they are not POW's then they are regular prisoners and so they should be given the same rights as any prisoner. The right to a speedy and fair trial. Not to be held indefinitely and without charges ....

This is why he pardonned himself .... to by time to get out of this mess.


I am amazed as to how fast some people can condone things like torture just cause the enemy might do it.

 

[Ollie]

Might do it??
Someone has forgotten about the heads of 3 civilian contractors that were stuck on pikes at a bridge.

Someone has forgotten about the people being beheaded.

They arn't POW's. They are animals and should be treated accordingly.
If you have an animal that goes wild, you shoot it. Problem solved.

As for reality. They can't release those prisoners.
Why??
The war isn't over. There are no borders in this war. If they release them they will simply go back and kill people. They have already proven this. They released on guy and 1 week later captured him again.

If they have to expose the poor little terrorist to stress to get answers, so.....

The problem I have with your point of view is you don't draw any line. You don't seem to want to look at reality. I am not trying to insult you, it is just a point of view that goes nowhere.

You say we shouldn't use torture.
Define torture??
How do we get information from an enemy that would rather cut the throat of your childeren than look at you?
How do you seperate the crazy muslim from the peaceful muslim?
Is there such a thing as a peaceful muslim? If you think so, read the koran.

If you can answer those questions, you will win the war in a week.
But make no mistake about it. The prisoners being held at cuba will cut the throat of your childeren in a heartbeat. They don't look at life the way we do. It is nothing. To die is an honor. To them, dying is a good thing, and killing anyone who isn't muslim is an instant get to see god card.

 

[ice auger]

Ollie for president......you have my vote....shoot to kill...haha

 

[sldgy]

Ollie, just curious, do you speak Arabic?

You ask, "is there such a thing as a peaceful muslim? If you think so, read the koran" as though you have read the Koran.

Notice that we make a distinction between the Koran and a translation of the Koran. This is normal procedure in the Muslim view of things, in marked contrast with the Christian view, according to which the Bible is Bible, no matter what language it may be written in. For Muslims, the divine Word assumed a specific, Arabic form, and that form is as essential as the meaning that the words convey. Hence only the Arabic Koran is the Koran, and translations are simply interpretations. Translations into the local language of the Islamic world, particularly Persian, were made at a very early date. However, these were not independent books but rather interlinear commentaries on the meaning of the text and aids to understanding.


Not taking sides or condoning terrorism, just stating a fact that I doubt many peeps know.

 

[TDubya]

Might do it??
Someone has forgotten about the heads of 3 civilian contractors that were stuck on pikes at a bridge.

Someone has forgotten about the people being beheaded.


Which army did this. I believe terrorists did this. So do you fight like terrorists or do you fight like you were trained. Show me where the American training manual is for torture. There isn't one.


They arn't POW's. They are animals and should be treated accordingly.

They are people, and should be treated with the same respect as you would expect your men to bo treated as POW's. They are terrorists and do not respect human life, but to lower yourself to there level ... EVER ... is not only against the GC, but desecrates all the good soldiers who follow the rules.
Was it fair that the Vietnam vets were called baby killers just cause of a couple looped up, sleep deprived, young soldiers.

As for reality. They can't release those prisoners.
Why??
The war isn't over.


But it soon will be if the war is going the way they say it is. Then what does Bush do with the prisoners in Cuba. This is why the pardon. You do your homework before it is due ... pays great dividends.

If they have to expose the poor little terrorist to stress to get answers, so.....


Sad that you condone torture. The civilized world used to torture a long time ago, now only terrorists and 3rd world countries condone it ...... and apparently you. Go talk to some Vietnam vets which were POW's, ask them how they feel about torture.


You say we shouldn't use torture.
Define torture??


Torture is clearly defined in the GC. Look it up yourself.



How do we get information from an enemy?


How much useful information are you getting from those prisoners in Cuba. About the same as the Vietmanese got from all those pilots after 5 years in jail ... I suppose.







How do you seperate the crazy muslim from the peaceful muslim?
Is there such a thing as a peaceful muslim? If you think so, read the koran.


Ever read the Old Testemant. What did David do after he knocked down Goliath with the slingshot? The Koran is a lot like the Old Testement. An eye for an eye ..... a tooth for a tooth. They share a lot of similarities.




but make no mistake about it. The prisoners being held at cuba will cut the throat of your childeren in a heartbeat.

I'm sure the same propaganda is being said about the allied soldiers treating muslim children. In fact that one has been used by armies for years. Great way to motivate the fighters ... from both sides. The killing of women and children crosses all cultural lines.

 

[Ollie]

I'm sure the same propaganda is being said about the allied soldiers treating muslim children. In fact that one has been used by armies for years. Great way to motivate the fighters ... from both sides. The killing of women and children crosses all cultural lines.

Not really.
A few years back a group of terrorist pretending to be contractors took control of an grade school. They blew up over 300 women and small childeren.
What did you hear from the muslim world?
Not a peep.

Draw a cartoon of the butcher Mohamed (sp?) and they start killing and destroying everything they can get their hands on.

sldgy
No, I don't speak arabic, nor will I ever.
As to the Koran, no, I haven't read it. Have you??
I have however sat thru many debates about it given by muslim clerics (the internet can be very informative).
The sunni muslim seems to be the root of the problem. Most of the ****e muslims are pretty tolerant and peacefull.
My primary problem with the muslim world as a whole is they all claim to be so peacefull yet they refuse to do anything about the terrorist. So as far as I am concerned they are not interested in peace.

Now to be opened minded (I at least try that once in a while).
There is a lot more muslims that are turning against the terrorist and working towards removing them from their homes and their land.

Time will tell.
I still won't turn my back on a muslim.
Till I see the clerics (not just a couple, but in great numbers) preaching peace, I don't think you will see an end to the killing. Muslims appear to be basically sheep. If their clerics say stop the killing, it stops. If they say kill, there is bloodshed. That is the way it is.

 

[sldgy]

sldgy
No, I don't speak arabic, nor will I ever.
As to the Koran, no, I haven't read it. Have you??

For the record, no I haven't as I do not speak Arabic either. However, I did take a grad. class "Islam" taught by a Phd., Islamic gentleman from Egypt.
(Dr. Saraff, the proff., had spent 12 years in political prison in the 70's). The Koran was discussed extensively as were customs, core beliefs and traditions in a number of Middle Eastern Countries.

I am certainly no authority but do have a little different perspective on the subject.

 

[Wade]

Most of the prisoners captured were not in uniform. They were not members of a traditional military. They could be tried as spies or as murders, and just shot. When a "soldier" shoots at another soldier it's doing your job, following orders. When a non uniformed person shoots at anybody, it's attempted murder. There's a difference. I say try them and hang them if they need it.

No hostilities are not over and an official peace declaration has not be signed by both parties, the POWs (which they aren't) don't have to be released until you can be assured that they will not re-enter into hostilities.

Terrorist are murders, not soldiers. They deserve death, and nothing else. I just think America should be above torture that's all. If you need to motivate one of them to tell you the info, let him watch you legally execute the guy next to him, then ask him a few questions. Yha, for the death penalty, against torture, I'm complicated.

As for their religion, I'm really tired of the billion ways they get offended. I say we should develop a pork bomb, and threaten them with that. Might be another way to get info, just threaten to kill them and wrap them in pork, and stickem in the ground.

 

[HawkShot99]

just threaten to kill them and wrap them in pork, and stickem in the ground.

Mummies are wrapped up in bandages, muslims in strips of bacon!!!

 

[Jimi Cocktails]

I draw the line at violating international law and then pardoning yourself for it. Makes you no better than them.


I think our greatest president in the last 50 years put it best

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[SAWYER]

Right on Ollie, I hate it when people like TDubya defend thoss bastards.

Maybe if he would have had a relative in the towers, or known someone who got there head chopped off and had it held up in front of the camera he would change his mind.

The problem with people like TDubya is they are ingulfed by the media and they want to defend those f*cking sand niggers rights more than our soldiers. Like Ollie said "it's a war". They started it, not us. So f*ck em'. They don't deserve sh*t

 

[Ollie]

The biggest problem I have with people that sit back and say we are torturing those poor terrorist and we should be better than that is simple.

You say we shouldn't do this or we shouldn't do that
ok, so enlighten me. How do you get information from them??
Ask nicely and hope for the best?
What do we do?
I don't want to hear vague answers, tell me EXACTLY what you would do.
How do YOU win the war??

The terrorist they captured over in Iraq think we are a joke. We don't have the stomach to do what needs to be done to win, and the scary thing is they may be right. The best the Democrats can come up with is surrender.
I see and hear people whining about this and that but they are offering up NOTHING to answer their whining.
It all boils down to this................

Put up or shut up.

 

[weetee]

I draw the line at violating international law and then pardoning yourself for it. Makes you no better than them.


I think our greatest president in the last 50 years put it best

Quote:
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.


Dwight D. Eisenhower

OK. Tell us what we should do president Jimi. Should we release all the prisoners at gitmo? Should we give them a lawyer and constitutional rights? Do you relialize what would happen if we did?
You don't see a difference in holding murderers at the plush Gitmo resort and beheading innocent civilians on TV?
As far as the quote from Dwight, that is absolutly true, but in no way related to this topic. (Sober up and read his quote again)

 

[bonz50]

you want quotes?? here ya go.........

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.” - Marcus Tullius Cicero

no truer of the people tryin to undermine the war effort during current times... everyone trying to remove the militaries tools are the plague, the traitorous that walk among us...

 

[PJ-Hunter]

Hey Dubya,

Send them fuggers my way! I'll torture them for you and then you can pardon me. This country has become a cesspool of over-sensitive pansies that care about the well being of terrorists. The same terrorists that enjoy cutting the heads off of innocent reporters and sending the tapes to news agencies.

I think we should drop a nuke on all towel heads and rid the world of their evil once and for all!

 

[Ollie]

you want quotes?? here ya go.........

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.” - Marcus Tullius Cicero

no truer of the people tryin to undermine the war effort during current times... everyone trying to remove the militaries tools are the plague, the traitorous that walk among us...

Oh that's good.
I just copied that to the ol hard drive.

You just described 2/3 of the liberals in this country.

 

[bonz50]

Oh that's good.
I just copied that to the ol hard drive.

You just described 2/3 of the liberals in this country.

ya, it's good to read ancient text, even if it is difficult reading, these guys were brilliant...

kinda surprised you hadn't heard that one Ollie... that is classic Cicero, possibly one of the greatest political minds ever... a very astute observer of power structure and its affects on people and governance...

 

[Jimi Cocktails]

OK. Tell us what we should do president Jimi. Should we release all the prisoners at gitmo? Should we give them a lawyer and constitutional rights? Do you relialize what would happen if we did?
You don't see a difference in holding murderers at the plush Gitmo resort and beheading innocent civilians on TV?
As far as the quote from Dwight, that is absolutly true, but in no way related to this topic. (Sober up and read his quote again)

I'm sorry to piss your simple little brain off.

In no way is a violation of the Geneva Convention Acceptable on any side of the war. Our President and Vice President directed these violations and have pardoned themselves and the administration for these acts. If you violate international law just like the Islamic Extremest have, then you in turn, are just as bad. Why not do things the correct way or work to change international law instead of going about it with your head in the sand and break the law and then pardon yourself.

How many soldiers, civilians, and innocent people have we "Accidentally" killed in order to get to the terrorists? A lot more than were killed in 9/11.

I support the Republican party when it stood for right and fiscal responsibility. The GOP. The real Deal - not this crap we see today from a loser of a President who has lied and cheated his way into success. He has ruined the reputation of the GOP.

Dwight's opinion is true. This war is about money and government contracts - military industrial complex, but I'm sure that you enjoy the 15 trillion dollars of National Debt, which is mostly held by foreign countries like China....... or do you not see a problem with any of this.

 

[Jimi Cocktails]

you want quotes?? here ya go.........

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.” - Marcus Tullius Cicero

no truer of the people tryin to undermine the war effort during current times... everyone trying to remove the militaries tools are the plague, the traitorous that walk among us...

I think that is a great quote and describes our President and Administration perfectly. I highlighted the best areas