After 2 seasons on the snow, did the 2019 or 2020 Alphas end up with a better track record?

[summ8rmk]

Yeah,
Cat's recommend 35psi or equivalent spring load on the FTS makes them quite heavy up front.
My Ctec's require a full 100% pull of the rope when warm or ur pulling it twice and they are much harder to pull over than Polaris, i Haven't pulled on a skidoo 850 but i bet its easy and a very short pull to start.

The Alpha has so much traction, u can't ride it around full throttle all day like a Polaris 2.6. If u do, ur in for a very fast ride. That is likely why they think its such a handfull. Let off the gas and put around through the trees at Polaris speed.

Stock Alphas going down hill in deep snow are a handfull. They will submerge like a submarine, right, left, whichever way u happen to look, much quicker than u would imagine. The elevate seemed to help tremendously in this area.


Sent it

 

[Octanee]

What was sno west review of the 19 alpha? Because we all know for the most part it's the same minus a few minor changes..... It's probably the complete opposite. Review!

 

[boondocker97]

Last year SnoWest bagged out and didn't ever do a head to head of the 800-850 class sleds. In fact almost everything they put out last year was just a regurgitation of the info they got from the manufacturers. Very little personal ride experience put into their articles. In each of their September and October issues they had two staff top 10 sled picks. First issue the two riders had the Alpha as #1 and #2. Second issue it was mid pack for both ( 4th and 7th I think). Multiple Ski-doo models always up front. They had a comparison of the differences between the twin rail mountain cat and Alpha, and a lone test of the twin rail hardcore. The hardcore test had zero input on how good or bad the machine actually was. If there wasn't photos of someone riding one there was zero evidence that they actually put a leg over it. It did say the ctec and clutching combo had good response. How can you put out a credible magazine without doing a feature article/test of the machine that brought the biggest change in mountain snowmobile suspension in decades?

 

[turboless terry]

Oh man! They absolutely destroyed a 2020 Hardcore when compared to a Skidoo Expert and a Pro RMK.

Here a just few of their observations from the Snowest March 2020 issue:

The Hardcore had a heavy front end, was hard to steer, was down on power, felt heavy compared to others, the weight was on the nose and plowed through things unless you were on the throttle, once on the throttle it felt like a jetski, took more effort to make it work, hard to start, harder to pull and always a least to pulls, the suspension didn't deliver, you would be the most tired at the end of the day on the Alpha, the Alpha made them plan their moves far in advance due to slow response, less than snappy throttle response, the weight of the sled plus being down on power really handicapped the Alpha, hard to tree ride going downhill, skis are narrow and don't have the bite required, the Alpha didn't seem to turn where I wanted it to go, hate the hooks on Alpha skis, they trip you, the running boards collect more snow than the others, porky 48 lbs heavier than the Pro RMK 162, seat is soft and too short, weren't particularly happy with the vertical steering post, handlebars were uncomfortable, bar controls are cluttered, brake handle not so hot.

They did like the traction of the track and how reverse worked. They said you had to ride the Hardcore very aggressively, if you didn't, all the weight transferred to the front end an it was very hard to steer.

Taking the time to setup the suspension would have helped a lot but, the hyper-criticality of this article certainly doesn't motivate the Arctic Cat faithful.

A bunch of what they said is true. Hardest starting, hardest steering, least power. Elevate fixes the diving or plowing frontend. I don't get the downhill turn. Easier on everything in powder. Maybe they don't know how to ride them. Some of what people gripe about on sidehilling is not true. They go straight acrossed a hillside but the dog walk a little. Nature of the beast. Just a different feel than what you are used to. They stick to a sidehill better than any sled in the right snow. I hate the ski loops. The ride sucks on trail. They burn more gas than any of them. 3 pulls with bad shoulders. I did get hung like a deer in a fence once. Foot twisted in footwell. There for a half hour. The seat is perfect for mountain riding. E start models have trail seat. The more tired at the end of the day is someone that doesn't know how to ride it. The 154 is easier but harder in some ways. Not the 165. I don't think i would wait on cat to do anything. That is like waiting on Yamaha to come with a 2 stroke. I think atac is a gimmick. The only settings I like is 2. The on the fly lockout would be nice though. I actually think people that have track trouble are railing them up the trail too fast or getting them hot and it transfers through the clips. Deep snow track. They are fairly snappy because the track hooks up better. Need more power. They will beat the others in the right snow.
Just buy one and spend the money on an elevate kit.

 

[Vern]

I watched a couple of snowests test ride videos earlier in the year and it was clear that the riders were die hard skidoo riders. Everyone knows skidoo handles completely different from cat and poo, so if your used to Doo of course your going to struggle on the other two. They looked like they were amateurs on the vertical post sleds, and of course they criticized the sleds because of this and praised the Doo. I have no doubt I would get my a$$ kicked if I hopped on a Doo with there handling characteristics after a lifetime of riding cat and Polaris, but I wouldn't blame the sled and pretend to be unbiased. I haven't read the article in the magazine, but it sounds like it was based off the videos I seen. Maybe they should list the test riders personal sleds as well so people that might actually use these articles for decision making can factor possible bias in as well. The test riders did look to be about 50-60 as well, so maybe that did play a factor as someone mentioned above. Personally I think the alpha is the easiest sled to ride that I've ridden. It does have its quirks, as with any chassis, but learning to use less throttle like mentioned above seems to be the ticket.

 

[Frostbite]

Great input guys, yes you can tell the Snowest test crew migrate toward Skidoos. Years ago they were accused of being Polaris fan boys. I think when you evaluate something it has to be tough not to compare it to what you know. I get it but, you also have to look for the good in the sled you are evaluating. I didn't see much of that going on other than saying they liked the reverse and the track on the Alpha. Maybe that was all they liked but, their test comments certainly killed my desire to run out and buy a new Cat.
Heck, after reading that article once again I am discouraged enough that I right now I am contemplating just ponying up and buying an Elevate Kit for my Proclimb since everything else is already done. Then I wouldn't have to worry about the cracking an Alpha skid, the primary clutch bottoming out on the spider and coming apart or snow ingestion taking out my engine. How an Elevate Kit would work with the Barcode front end would be a whole new adventure but, I think it might be awesome!

 

[turboless terry]

I think you are overthinking it. Buyers remorse isn't supposed to kick in until after you buy it. You can put all the stuff in the world on an old sled and it is still an old sled. Really good chance it won't work as good as the new iron. You are just trying to play catch up. Put the elevate kit on your alpha. The alpha rails aren't breaking left and right. Clutches aren't all blowing up. You only hear about the bad stuff. They don't talk about how many people got over the virus. Only how many died. I can't even stand to ride my buddy's 17 mountain cat because it feels like a slug in every category. Didn't say its a bad sled. Comparing it to the new ones it's not even in the ballpark to me. His is completely stock. Pull the trigger. Put elevate on it. Get rid of those stupid ski loops and don't look back.

 

[Octanee]

In no way would I take that snowest review to heart by any means as others have said, It's bogus.

And likely over thinking it. It's a damn fine machine. Really they all are though.

I don't find the steering hard my self, Infact it's never been a thought or complaint I've had. Power I find on par with the Polaris 850, by I find I mean feel, when I tested the khaos, my alpha had way more hook up and pulled the arms more due to that, I fact I've out climbed it easily on a semi technical hillclimb/sidehill up through semi spaced trees on my alpha. it is said to have more true hp, by 8 hp? But it don't feel like it or show it, the doo though it pulls, they've always been king.



Front end weight, I'll sure say mine doesn't feel front end heavy when riding and playing. And again it's a wheelie machine if your not ontop of it (still a 165). I've never had a sled so nimble.


Clutches letting go, there's been a few who have had that yep but of how many sleds sold, it's probably only 2% I'd bet but could be wrong. The rail issues seemed to be biggest from shock pressure issues. 3k km on mine no issues. I've hit some things, flew down rough hammered out trails. Some smaller jump/drops but I do be mindful to not push it hard.


The pull start thing, if you can give it a good quick pull, it'll fire up half pull, if your slow it's 1 full pull. A cold morning you feel it like all the sleds, it's better than the older sleds though.. Again you can add E-START.

I do know what has kept some away from the cat is the lack of warranty and I get it. Cat does 1 year factory and 2 years aftermarket which if you don't snow check?? ( could be wrong) you pay for. or at least in Canada., I know doo is similar in that they offer 3 or 4 years aftermarket but I believe it's included?. Unsure on Polaris.

 

[M8onEdge]

Dude regardless of what you do don't let the Snowest "review" influence your decision. It is extremely Doo biased. They've been skidoo fanboys since 2013 when the XM came out. They completely ignore the negatives of the skidoo e.g., too rider forward, twitchy, unpredictable steering, overtransfer in steep, more prone to wash out, flat powerband (yes linear means flat with no real fun spot). If you're happy riding a '15 proclimb (with mods), you will simply love an Alpha. They are better in every way (power, smother engine, track hookup is remarkable, carve on a dime, steer easier). I owned a '15 almost identical to yours and honestly don't think there's even a comparison to any cat sleds 2018 and newer. Personally I've moved back to an RMK because I think the Poo is the most balanced, responsive mountain sled across all conditions. You can't go wrong with any of them frankly. The new models are amazing and regardless of what you do to the '15 you'll be better off on any of the newer sleds.

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks guys, I know you're both right.

Let's see how things unfold.

 

[favoritos]

The initial start of the first pull is powering up the ECU. Cold starts are a little easier with a quick short pull to "power up" the ECU. Then give a solid second pull.

I don't have much chassis input. I can give a little feedback on the 800 motors riding lower elevations.
Have a '16, 18, '19 and a 2020. Also ran a couple of '17 sleds in the mix alongside the first CTec motors. The skid is the same in all the machines. Everything is over 150 hours of engine time.
The old Zuke motors do pull more on top rpms. If you ride maxed out all day you will see the difference. The CTec pulls a whole lot more in mid through just before the top. We usually hop on the CTec sleds when there is a choice. The Zuke gets selected for a top end drag race. It just pulls longer with good conditions.
I still remember the first ride with the CTec motor. I actually giggled in the helmet. The midrange power difference is pretty amazing.

Motor durability has been all over the board. The Zukes were usually solid. Didn't see much initial skuffing and most just kept running. (Had two of the '17 motors go down right around 70 hours). The rest were fine.
CTec motors have been pretty good too. Have not done anything to the '18 or the 2020 sleds. The '19 went down at about 70 hours. The replacement motor skuffed quick, but held compression. It has gone another 80 hours without any big change.

Riding with the motors.
The CTecs are just more fun. The pull is addictive. They are louder when you get into the valves vs. the Zuke. The '20 motor does have that annoying low-mid rpm rattle. It also has a different sound as you crank through the rpms. Almost like a growl. It has a teeny tiny edge on power in that range too. The '18 and '19 have about the same edge over the '20 toward the top. Honestly, most of the time you would never be able to tell the difference, it might be a couple mph.
Oil consumption isn't a whole lot different. Oddly, the 2020 uses more oil than the '18 and '19 motor. Oil range is greatly reduced on the CTec sleds because of the oil pump location. Not a big deal, but the light starts flashing so dang early.
Fuel consumption. Bury the throttle, and they get close to the Zuke. Baby the throttle and they start to sip fuel. You can limp the CTecs a long time too. The Zukes use more fuel on baby throttle. Not a huge deal unless you are running out all the time. Odd note to fuel is the '20 is using more than the '18 and '19 if riding midrange rpm a lot of the day.

Again, I don't have much input for chassis. I can answer more questions about the motors.

 

[Frostbite]

Great input on the engines Favroitos! The only CTEC I have ridden was on a 2018 demo ride but, the engine was still in the break in mode and I was less than impressed. It seemed almost four stroke like compared to my peppy MDS weight and SLP single piped Suzuki.

The biggest thing I like about the 2019 is I would be saving enough money to order the Iceage Elevate Kit and still be spend a whole lot less than a normal new sled. I also liked the idea of the slotted piston and the way the 2019's are able to use MDS weights.

 

[boondocker97]

...The biggest thing I like about the 2019 is I would be saving enough money to order the Iceage Elevate Kit and still be spend a whole lot less than a normal new sled. I also liked the idea of the slotted piston and the way the 2019's are able to use MDS weights.

I think you have your answer.

 

[Frostbite]

If it were only so easy. My wife is fighting me tooth and nail. She thinks the 2019 looks like either a "Bruise" or and "Angry Easter Egg". She said "cool, macho guys don't ride sleds with pastel colors"! Dang, what a way to knee a guy in junk Sweetie!

The good news is, she is a much bigger fan of me either snowchecking a new 2021 Alpha, Mountain Max or buying a new or used 2020 Khaos (she didn't like the colors of the 2021 Khaos). I also showed her a couple Skidoo Experts that are great buy since everyone and their dog seems to be ordering the new Skidoo turbo. She likes those as well and said "get something that makes your heart go pitter patter, not just one that just happens to be a good buy!

Then there's me, I struggle because I like a good buy almost as much as the right sled. More to follow with only 7 days left to order.

 

[summ8rmk]

Here's more help.... lol

If i was to purchase a new Alpha.
I would get the 19 and an elevate kit.
Strip all the stickers off and put different ones on if u really don't like the colors.

I have MDS weights in mine. I honestly don't know if there is any difference from stock? Both setups seemed spot on.

Sent it

 

[Frostbite]

Summ8rmk, I agree from a dollars and cent perspective that makes the most sense!

To make matters worse, my daughter got home from work and my wife had me show her a picture of the 2019 Alpha One I was looking at and she said that "I would have turn in my Man card if I rode a sled with a rail the color of Easter Eggs". Then she said "it looks like the evil witch Maleficent from the Disney movie". I just can't win. ?

They both are telling me to order a 2021 but, I am not sure I can justify spending that kind of money....

 

[Badv2]

If you can ride who cares what color your sled is and some ladies rip no man card needed for sledding.

 

[summ8rmk]

Summ8rmk, I agree from a dollars and cent perspective that makes the most sense!

To make matters worse, my daughter got home from work and my wife had me show her a picture of the 2019 Alpha One I was looking at and she said that "I would have turn in my Man card if I rode a sled with a rail the color of Easter Eggs". Then she said "it looks like the evil witch Maleficent from the Disney movie". I just can't win. [emoji17]

They both are telling me to order a 2021 but, I am not sure I can justify spending that kind of money....

Show ur women what the sled looks like on the mountain. [emoji1787][emoji41]
They're All just about the same when covered in snow...

U can paint the rail or add that to ur custom wrap.

Sent it

 

[Chewy22]

I would order a 21 ATAC, if I didn’t have a 19. I have a 16 too. Dropped case, roller clutch, narrow boards basically all the new goodies besides the plastic. You would think it would be close to an 18/19 twin rail but it’s not. Don’t stay on the 16 long before I want to jump back on the 19 Alpha.

 

[turboless terry]

2021 mountain max looks the best. Fun sled stock. Put the elevate kit on the following year if worried about money. Either way it is going to be way better than what your riding. People always ask what year of a model they should get. The last year. They always run the best and most reliable.
I thought the kaos colors were good. You can always get the all black one and do what you want.
If they rode cat in the 90s they could appreciate the 19 colors.