Oh and I forgot.
GO CHIEFS!
GO CHIEFS!
4 strokes and the cost of sledding
- Thread starter 89sandman
- Start date
F
Flange509
Member
Its not the weight of a 4s it the motor momentum that must be overcome in order to change direction. The 4s has a lot more of it than a 2s I think that this is the why they feel heaver when ridden thats why i went back to a 2s dirtbike last year, 4s dirtbikes run like crazy they just take more energy to ride.
How many posts have you seen?? I think I have seen 2 and one of those was not even a turbo...
And yes, I have figured out how to heat my food up on my Nytro although I do not use a muff pot...
Four stroke fun factor is x100...
I tried my best NOT to respond to this post.... really.
I am still riding my 03 RX-1M. Of course like your sled it has a FEW mods to make it work better but BOOST isn't one of them.
One of my best memories are of the times I have done far better climbing than I guess most folks think a fourstroke should be capable of doing and guys come up and says "wow, your sled rocks, what kind of turbo are you running"?
Then I get to say with a smile on my face; none, the engine is stock.
I planned to upgrade the sled several years ago but the low end torque of the engine just won't let me get rid of it. It fires up every time I turn the key, it doesn't require oil as part of its regular diet, the sled actually runs better on 87 octane, my clothes don't smell like I have been cutting wood after riding and I change my own oil once a year if it needs it or not.
I understand that fact that some people just don't get it and wear "Two Stroke For Life" hats, but the fourstroke infection is spreading and spreading fast. Just try not to be the last guy to jump from the past into the future.
Frosty
I am still riding my 03 RX-1M. Of course like your sled it has a FEW mods to make it work better but BOOST isn't one of them.
One of my best memories are of the times I have done far better climbing than I guess most folks think a fourstroke should be capable of doing and guys come up and says "wow, your sled rocks, what kind of turbo are you running"?
Then I get to say with a smile on my face; none, the engine is stock.
I planned to upgrade the sled several years ago but the low end torque of the engine just won't let me get rid of it. It fires up every time I turn the key, it doesn't require oil as part of its regular diet, the sled actually runs better on 87 octane, my clothes don't smell like I have been cutting wood after riding and I change my own oil once a year if it needs it or not.
I understand that fact that some people just don't get it and wear "Two Stroke For Life" hats, but the fourstroke infection is spreading and spreading fast. Just try not to be the last guy to jump from the past into the future.
Frosty
So you paid $3.98 for a Boss seat and got the M-8 for your Birthday?
new stock sleds can also break down!
I had a stock Apex that had to get towed out at 2000km with a broken jack shaft bearing. I also had to change my steering column shims twice, and my hyfax twice, all in 2000km.
with all these repairs on a stock new sled, I 'd rather have a turbo and at least have a good excuse as to why my sled requires a lot of repairs.
I had a stock Apex that had to get towed out at 2000km with a broken jack shaft bearing. I also had to change my steering column shims twice, and my hyfax twice, all in 2000km.
with all these repairs on a stock new sled, I 'd rather have a turbo and at least have a good excuse as to why my sled requires a lot of repairs.
I think a t-nytro must have gone by 89gaysandman and made his m-8 look like a old tundra. Now he's on here crying how its not fair that some people can afford to ride a $20,000 sled...... There's not a sled more reliable nimble and easier to boondock then a boosted nytro 162. PERIOD! I've been running a boosted yami for 5 years usually at 18lbs of boost and sometimes in 4' of pow and have yet to even BLOW A BELT and also have NEVER BEEN TOWED!
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Nikolai
ACCOUNT CLOSED
I'll ride around 2000 miles this year. My Nytro(no turbo) only costs $24 to ride if I fill up my spare gallon. I burn less gas and don't use oil, it's deffinitely a cheap sled to ride and over the course of 2000 miles will save me alot of $$$ over a 2-stroke, especially since there's no maintenance.
The turbo and highmarking comment is BS. Anyone who buys a sled with highmarking in mind, will dump thousands into it no matter if it's a 2-stroke or 4-stroke. Tons of Doo riders do 860's ect., M1000 riders get BB's, pipes, y-pipes, fuel controllers, ect. The Nytro with a Turbo could be done for $15,000. There are tons of 2-stroke riders who have at least that in their sleds.
I would never go back, the benefits far outweigh the negatives. No stink, cheaper to ride, better fuel economy, unmatched reliability, quiet...and the best part is that it starts every time with just the turn of the key.
The turbo and highmarking comment is BS. Anyone who buys a sled with highmarking in mind, will dump thousands into it no matter if it's a 2-stroke or 4-stroke. Tons of Doo riders do 860's ect., M1000 riders get BB's, pipes, y-pipes, fuel controllers, ect. The Nytro with a Turbo could be done for $15,000. There are tons of 2-stroke riders who have at least that in their sleds.
I would never go back, the benefits far outweigh the negatives. No stink, cheaper to ride, better fuel economy, unmatched reliability, quiet...and the best part is that it starts every time with just the turn of the key.
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Nikolai
ACCOUNT CLOSED
This proves you have not ridden a Nytro. Everyone I've let ride my sled(even an XP rider) said my Nytro handled everybit as good if not better. Don't knock it till you ride it.
I've been saving up the empties and picking up pennies where I can for the last couple of seasons in the hopes of one day buying a turbo'd 4 stroke. All of the guys I ride with think I'm nuts, but I started riding sleds in order to access ski terrain and kite-skiing terrain, so I looked at the sport from a different perspective. And above all else I hate burning oil. But now I love sledding for sledding, and the skis get left behind more then they are taken. Who the hell cares what we are on, as long as we are sledding. Snowboarders and skiers get along, hell we even learn from each other... kitesurfers and windsurfers do as well, now if only the 4 stroke guys and 2 stroke guys could too.
Last month we were out in some very deep, very light pow, with 3 XP's and a couple of 07 Doo's, with me on my lowly 03 RMK 700. The Doo's were all trying to highmark each other, riding in each other's lines and getting 10 maybe 20 feet higher each time, cheering and high-5ing after each higher mark. The whole time this old fat dude was sitting on this old RX-1, quiet as hell. After everyone gave up, saying that we weren't going to get higher. He actually asked if he could give it a shot. We said yes, off he goes, slowly, goggles still around his neck, half way up the first incline, he even slowed to allow a guy who was side hilling to pass above him, then off he goes, in his own line, through untouched pow the whole way... he blew by the highest mark by 500+', and he turned back when he wanted, not when he had to... it turns out it was his first sled, and he bought the whole setup, RX1+Alpine turbo for under $6000 plus the labour to build it.
Now all the guys want one, and we sat down and figured out the cost of building a Nytro and operating one, for a 2000 mile season... used Nytro (hey it's just getting broken in at 500miles) $8000 (from the US), track, rear suspension, tunnel, shocks, seat, light weight goodies, we'll drop close to 100 pounds and it'll cost about $6500, now we are up to $14500, with goodies, and we are right at the wet weight of an XP (wet weight to wet weight) the Nytro is far more reliable then the XP (on average, of course on a case by case basis it might differ). Annual operating costs for 2000 miles = $600 in gas, $50 oil change, $65 belt (just to be safe) $250 annual tune up... totals $865.
For an XP, I wouldnt touch a used one, cuz I want the warranty. So now we are talking new... the price is right around $12000 right now, out the door (in Canada. It might even be more, but I'm trying to be generous). Pipe, vent kits, clutch kit, re-gear, that is another $1,500+, So lets say the whole setup was $13,500. Annual operating costs for 2000 miles = $750 in gas, $250 in oil, belts are being replaced for free under warranty, for now, but lets say 3 belts, so that's $300, $250 annual tune up... totals $1550. This of course assumes that nothing else breaks, which so far, out of any of the XP's we ride with, this has not been the case... and most items have been non-warranty items. So the operating cost is more then 80% higher then the Nytro.
So after year one, the Nytro's total cost has been about $300 higher then the XP. This includes purchase, mods and operating costs.
After 2000miles, most of the guys here are getting rid of the Ski Doos, and trading in on something newer. They have been consistently losing about $4000 over the purchase price of the sled, this doesnt even include the mods. Now if we assume that due to the reliability of the Nytro, we'll keep it for three seasons, then if we were to repeat everything above, the Nytro's total cost over three seasons, including purchase, and still having the sled at the end, is just over $17,000. The 2 smoke owner would be sitting at over $30000 for the same 3 year period. That is almost double the cost in a three year period.
I'm not trying to pick on the XP's, I think these numbers are pretty representative of all 2 strokes.
This obviously doesnt include major engine mods.... if we were to include those, say a $7500 turbo on the Nytro, running at between 12 to 15psi so it is still very reliable, and $4000 of additional work to the 2 Stroke Engine, probably wont help it in the reliability department. Even then if we kept the Nytro for 3 years, and the 2 Stroke for 2 years, then the Nytro's total 3 year ownership cost has increased to $24000 and the 2 Strokes would stay about the same (as the costs of the depreciation is replaced by the cost of the mods...though technically the depreciation would increase in year 2, since it is now a 4000 mile stroke sled). Now there is no comparison in performance, and it is still cheaper to run.
Sorry if this kinda rambled, but anyway I've run the numbers, if you look at the total cost of ownership, I just haven't been able to find a way that the 2 stroke more economical then the 4, in the long run.
I've also had way too much time to figure this stuff out, since I've had too much down time, waiting for replacement parts for my 2 smoke.
Have Fun
T
Last month we were out in some very deep, very light pow, with 3 XP's and a couple of 07 Doo's, with me on my lowly 03 RMK 700. The Doo's were all trying to highmark each other, riding in each other's lines and getting 10 maybe 20 feet higher each time, cheering and high-5ing after each higher mark. The whole time this old fat dude was sitting on this old RX-1, quiet as hell. After everyone gave up, saying that we weren't going to get higher. He actually asked if he could give it a shot. We said yes, off he goes, slowly, goggles still around his neck, half way up the first incline, he even slowed to allow a guy who was side hilling to pass above him, then off he goes, in his own line, through untouched pow the whole way... he blew by the highest mark by 500+', and he turned back when he wanted, not when he had to... it turns out it was his first sled, and he bought the whole setup, RX1+Alpine turbo for under $6000 plus the labour to build it.
Now all the guys want one, and we sat down and figured out the cost of building a Nytro and operating one, for a 2000 mile season... used Nytro (hey it's just getting broken in at 500miles) $8000 (from the US), track, rear suspension, tunnel, shocks, seat, light weight goodies, we'll drop close to 100 pounds and it'll cost about $6500, now we are up to $14500, with goodies, and we are right at the wet weight of an XP (wet weight to wet weight) the Nytro is far more reliable then the XP (on average, of course on a case by case basis it might differ). Annual operating costs for 2000 miles = $600 in gas, $50 oil change, $65 belt (just to be safe) $250 annual tune up... totals $865.
For an XP, I wouldnt touch a used one, cuz I want the warranty. So now we are talking new... the price is right around $12000 right now, out the door (in Canada. It might even be more, but I'm trying to be generous). Pipe, vent kits, clutch kit, re-gear, that is another $1,500+, So lets say the whole setup was $13,500. Annual operating costs for 2000 miles = $750 in gas, $250 in oil, belts are being replaced for free under warranty, for now, but lets say 3 belts, so that's $300, $250 annual tune up... totals $1550. This of course assumes that nothing else breaks, which so far, out of any of the XP's we ride with, this has not been the case... and most items have been non-warranty items. So the operating cost is more then 80% higher then the Nytro.
So after year one, the Nytro's total cost has been about $300 higher then the XP. This includes purchase, mods and operating costs.
After 2000miles, most of the guys here are getting rid of the Ski Doos, and trading in on something newer. They have been consistently losing about $4000 over the purchase price of the sled, this doesnt even include the mods. Now if we assume that due to the reliability of the Nytro, we'll keep it for three seasons, then if we were to repeat everything above, the Nytro's total cost over three seasons, including purchase, and still having the sled at the end, is just over $17,000. The 2 smoke owner would be sitting at over $30000 for the same 3 year period. That is almost double the cost in a three year period.
I'm not trying to pick on the XP's, I think these numbers are pretty representative of all 2 strokes.
This obviously doesnt include major engine mods.... if we were to include those, say a $7500 turbo on the Nytro, running at between 12 to 15psi so it is still very reliable, and $4000 of additional work to the 2 Stroke Engine, probably wont help it in the reliability department. Even then if we kept the Nytro for 3 years, and the 2 Stroke for 2 years, then the Nytro's total 3 year ownership cost has increased to $24000 and the 2 Strokes would stay about the same (as the costs of the depreciation is replaced by the cost of the mods...though technically the depreciation would increase in year 2, since it is now a 4000 mile stroke sled). Now there is no comparison in performance, and it is still cheaper to run.
Sorry if this kinda rambled, but anyway I've run the numbers, if you look at the total cost of ownership, I just haven't been able to find a way that the 2 stroke more economical then the 4, in the long run.
I've also had way too much time to figure this stuff out, since I've had too much down time, waiting for replacement parts for my 2 smoke.
Have Fun
T
Is 2000 k's on Highfact and wore out natural? I think that wear can be controlled. Commenting on Apache post.
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pura vida
Well-known member
[/QUOTE]...instead of this hokey belt driven/2 clutch non sense...[/QUOTE]
you don't really understand clutching do you? hokey? sure you go to a direct drive and i will stay with the hokey belt driven/2 clutch non sense. but you are right, if you could figure out a better power transfer system you would never have to work again.
pv
you don't really understand clutching do you? hokey? sure you go to a direct drive and i will stay with the hokey belt driven/2 clutch non sense. but you are right, if you could figure out a better power transfer system you would never have to work again.
pv
A
Ak nitro
Well-known member
Squish, could not have said it better myself. I got into this sport from snowboarding also, I bought a sled to access new terrain. Over time I stopped bringing my board and just rode my sled all day, it is more fun. For me and my wife to go riding all day on our rmk 900 and summit 700 we would burn all of our gas, about 18 to 20 gallons worth, not to mention oil and belts. My wife can ride the same distance on her phazer and burn only 2 gallons, my nitro has a turbo, I run 12 to 14 lbs boost and it still uses less fuel than my 900. I would say daily operating cost of my two 4 strokes about 40 bucks, my two strokes about 100 bucks. Not to mention a 4 stroke engine could see 40,000 miles but after 4000 on a two stroke your engine is about toast. I just sold all of my two strokes for a fraction of what I bought them for, if they have over two thousand miles on them you almost have to give them away.
D
Duke
Well-known member
I think the real question is where are we gonna put our Muffpots if everything goes four stroke!!!
Just lay Salmon fillets over the turbo housing. LMAO
If I had the money, a turbo nytro would be the first on my list, but I could hardly afford to go through my 01' summit! LOL!
D
Dano702
Well-known member
I bought an 07 hold over , and got a great deal . The seat was around 500 , got a good deal on that too . The old M8's in the box are selling cheap right now just so you guys know .
Oh and by the way rode the 8 on straight 91 on sunday .
Never had that much fun on a sled in my life . It had the 08 ECU refash before i rode it , and it was spot on all day . This little stock 8 was hanging with the carbed King all day long , never high marked him but went every where he did .No side vents yet , no under hood heat issues . This sled just flat out rips stock .
Snow over the hood all day long . All 162's in our group , no one could stop on flat ground with out getting stuck . Had to point down hill to get moving again . I cant say enough about how well the 8 runs . On a side note i know the guy who put it together . This sled never went over 5000 - 6000 (half throttle) rpm untill the first tank was gone . Nice easy trail riding , no deep snow. And we also warm it up really good ,every time we move it .
Got to ride with a TM7 on Sunday , cant wait to get boost . I got video and still pics just have to remember how to post them . Never did see a single four stroke all day long , but the snow was very deep . This sled is going to be just right with 80 + MPH track speeds .
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lucky13
Active member
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