4 strokes and the cost of sledding

[03rmking]

thats right there is no comparing these sleds in stock form because niether the nitro or the apex will hang with a 800 2 stroke unless it is boosted. i'd like to see the apex or nitro stock hang with any of the new 800's, its just not gonna happen. would love to have seen either of these sleds running in the powder we were in this weekend stock.talked to the major yami dealer for turbos here in oregon today, for a new apex or nitro with an entry level turbo and no suspension upgrades is about 18k. this is a 9lb boost on pump gas. only 240 hp. hmmm for that kind of cash in a 2 stroke i think i could get a m1000 get 240 hp and still have at least a couple grand left over suspension upgrades. if turbos are so reliable why aren't all the manufactures putting them on from the factory. is it because all that boost shortens the life of the engine? try and tell me boosting the power with a turbo doesn't put a ton of extra stress on the whole motor. that is why they quit putting turbos in most passenger cars, blown head gaskets and engines that wouldn't last half as long as thier counterparts without them. yes i have ridden a turbo apex, thank you snoboner, and yes it is the best hillclimbing machine i have ever seen on the mountain, bar none. but for the average sledder like me the cost is just tooo high. if they want to keep this sport alive $20 grand sleds are not the way to go!!! dave, i love the 2up muffpot better get a trademark on that name before someone else does!!!!

Why would you want to argue about the middle of the pack? That's like betting on which horse will finish 10th. So let's talk mods, that's where all the fun is. And everybody knows there is no bigger, cheaper, or more reliable HP than a 4s turbo.

I'll give you some material for future arguements. I'll sell you my turbo apex for $200,000. Now you can tell everybody a turbo apex costs $200k. Truth be told you can get into a used one for $12k or a new one for $15k-$16k. Not $18k or $20k. And it's 12lbs on pump gas.

A 240hp M1000 will get CRUSHED by a turbo apex. So why even consider spending the same on something with the fraction of reliability and less HP? Let's talk belts. A $60 1000 mile Yamaha belt at 300hp or a $100+ 200 mile AC belt at 160hp???

Ride what ya like, but the blinders are gone and I've seen the light

 

[Jaynelson]

A 240hp M1000 will get CRUSHED by a turbo apex. So why even consider spending the same on something with the fraction of reliability and less HP? Let's talk belts. A $60 1000 mile Yamaha belt at 300hp or a $100+ 200 mile AC belt at 160hp???

Yup, and don't forget to factor in pistons, rings, cranks, and whatever else you'll blow up regularily with a 240hp+ 2-stroke. The factor can barely keep these things together at 150hp LOL

 

[Xtremist]

I get a kick out of all the 4 stroke bashing by the uninformed and scared 2 stroke smokers on these sites. Any excuse to justify their reason to stay brand loyal I guess. What a pity to be riding with your eyes closed, they miss so much of what's going on around them.

I too seen the light, last season bought a 06 Vector, stock for now, I ride with a group of 7-800's all brands, various mods and track lengths from 136 - 162.

Here's the facts,

It COMPETES with them all, some days I get the better of them, some days not, but for the most part , REGARDLESS of snow conditions we are evenly matched.
It uses much LESS fuel riding in a day than the 2's, on a normal day I see the guys run thru a full tank of fuel then have to put another 2 gallons in to make the trip back to the trucks, that's 10-12 gallons in one day for them, I usually run thru 7-8 gallons in the same distance.
Daily operating cost is much LESS, 2 stroke injection oil for the weekend, 4 litres synthetic cost $40,( 12-13 trips each season injection oil cost $500) my annual oil change, cost about $45, ( being lazy and letting dealer do complete annual tune up $250).
1800 kms ( and still counting ) on 1 $90 Yamaha belt, 3 $115 Doo belts this season so far, and god only knows how many last season ( the owner can't even remember, and clutches are true and rebuilt) in the same 1800 kms cost $345 +++++++!!!!

What's the cost of a full blown mod from Specialty sleds, Mountain Magic or CR racing $25-50,000 ??? Will it compete with a charged Apex at $17-20,000 the answer is NO!!

Someone said they had to adjust their route for the nytro to follow, dude, either get a new rider on that nytro, or quit spewing BS all over here!! I spend the majority of time breaking trail in powder thru tight trails up creeks and thru trees( we almost never ride a groomed trail) with my bro on his 700 summit ( the old go as far as you can then turn out so I don't use you for traction method). And for the most part ,probably 60% of the time am the leader of the trail breaking.

I could go on about time and time again how my stock Vector has shut the mouths of the non believers in the group I ride with, but no need those who ride the Yammies know, and those who don't can keep their blinders on and believe what they want.

Yes, I have ridden the new XP, it's an amazing sled out of the box, I agree stock nothing else compares but at 150-200 pounds less and 10-20 more hp than the apex ,it better make the rest look stupid, but as everyone says, who rides stock, a charged apex,vector,nytro makes everything else stock or modified look stupid. The last weekend I was in Golden and was watching some XP's mark up a hill, very impressive, then a couple fellas came by on charged nytros and made the xps turn tail and leave after they more than doubled their marks on the hill in fresh snow, no cheating and using the tracks already there.

I'm not brand loyal, I also own a RMK 700, had cats, I went with the yammie because I liked what I seen, and the potential it has, had one of the other brands had a 4 stroke on the market worthy of looking at maybe I'd be riding it instead, ah ,but look now, doo is coming out with the big 4 stroke, I WONDER WHY?????? just sit back and watch the games begin as the other manufacturers follow suit,and as each brand loyal rider starts trading in their 2 stroker for a 4 and charging each of them to COMPETE with the Yammies already there.

Yes, the games have begun, the cost of sledding for me is much more affordable now than ever before, and I thank Yamaha for that. My fun factor is priceless.

Just like 4 stroke bikes have taken over the MX world it's only a few seasons away when sleds will be taken over as well.

So for all the non believers out there, keep your blinders on , say whatever it takes to justify your existance and your loyalty, because soon we will be saying I TOLD YOU SO !!

 

[Dano702]

I would love to ride a 300 + hp apex , never even seen one run . Why is everyone comparing a turbo 4 to a N/A 2 smoker ? How about the turbo VS the turbo . I will keep a very detailed list of costs in my new build . My new M8 has almost gone through its first tank of 100 to 1 . I will get to ride it with straight 91 in the tank on sunday .


After that first ride it is getting parked untill it has boost . I am at about 8200.00 right now with a new Boss seat . I hope to run pump gas , but good fuel is what i am starting with . So how about it ? TM8 at 12 lbs VS TApex at 12 lbs , who has a turbo M in there group ?

I cant wait to ride on boost , i will keep you all posted on how it goes . And of course how much it costs and weighs.

 

[xlr8r]

Wow! Well said! Not sure if Jeremy is on here or not, but we rode Tony's 2 weekends ago with a stock Nytro, 2 T'd Apexes, 1 T'd Rx-1 & a UBR900 Vertical Escape on the button. I have ridden boosted Nytros thus far but couldn't believe how well the STOCK Nytro faired amidst XPs M1000s and other sleds. I am riding an Apex after an M sled and multiple Poo's. For my primary sled, I would have to think loooooong and hard before going back to a 2-stroke.

 

[Boosted Rooster]

If a stock APEX can't keep up with a 800 2 smoker...
1 somebody needs to set the APEX up properly
2 The person riding the APEX has to have time in the seat.

I rode mine stock for 2 years could play with alot of sleds REVS RMK M series pick one!!!
Charged now WOOO HOOO!!!!!!!
$$ are alway's a topic on the forum. If you are that worried about money you in the wrong sport. Sleds that work in the hills are going to be 20k plus pick a brand?

Been gone from the 4 m for a while. Stll the same S#$% different day.
Yamaha has to be charged.
skidoo rules
polaris rules
artic cat rules
Can't we just ride!! And show pics

 

[snow_knight]

Well first off 03rmking is correct.. One can easily find a boosted 4 stroke for under 15k.. I found mind one here for under that with quite a few extra mods.. (thanks chubby)..

2nd.. I have been running mod doo's and poo's for years.. Ya there is a weight advantage.. but once you get used to riding a turbo sled.. the only time you feelt that weight is when its stuck.. I'm running a tapex w/ 174.. its a little wrestle in the trees but I can still go through the same spots I did before (just a little tighter now with my gen II simmons)however I was plain tired of working on them, clutching them, filling nitrous bottles.. and yes the 4 strokes are a pretty complex sled.. and one needs to learn a lot about them (or i did) to feel comfortable operating them so you dont burn em' down..Once one gains a little knowledge on them.. you will realize that they are the one of the most reliable sleds on the mountain (if not trying to run 24lbs. of boost of pump)..

3rd.. Turbo two strokes are great.. hey boost is always good in my book.. however there motors dont handle to boost as well.. ya some guys have had great luck with there motors holding together.. but most have not year in year out..

4th.. turbo kits for both 2stroke and 4stroke keep getting better and better for availible H.P. and reliability.. With this more and more manufactures are building kits.. and there is a lot of very reasonable kits out there for what every sled you ride..

At the end of the day ride what you want.. ride often... and remeber its always better on boost

 

[Reeb]

Yeah easy answer. If you wanna ride stock, or mildy changed, ride a 2s. If you wanna enter a whole nuther realm? Go turbo a 4s. I've made the unfortunate decision to build a 2s mod instead of a 4s. Make no mistake, I know I'm gettin' beat if a boosted sled is around.....period. And I can't wait till I can afford my own!

 

[Nate]

im trying to go boosted 4. Nothing against 2 strokes, my turbo M runs awesome and other than me breaking my steering post I have not had a problem with it. But I want a 4 stroke

 

[Snowstar]

I wouldnt buy a 4 stroke until the weights go down. Till then my 2 smoke will go everywhere I want to go and more. Gas and go.

 

[Priest]

hey Sandman you love to piss on yammi hot turbo when all guys around just let them enjoy their sleds and if you have nothing to do go and ride your sled

 

[heinracing]

im a loyal polaris fan ride rmk turbo, rented a nytro, stock 10 miles on it, i was really impressed besides it being top heavy, decent power, shocks sucked would probably never buy one but liked riding for the day i was impressed with it after hearing all the negative thoughts about a n/a 4 stroke

 

[SLY]

My Nytro turbo is such a tank, you wouldn't want it......

 

[heinracing]

if your willing to give me that tank ill take her

 

[blackout94zr700]

Budget is the never ending factor. Yes, sledding is expensive but, there is a wide range of sleds for a reason. and depending on where you live, it's not always your main sport.
( quads in summer, sleds in winter here in the NW )

 

[89sandman]

come on 4 strokers you can do better than that, i need entertainment here in the middle of the night. like they say riding a stock 4 stroke is great as long as all your buddies are also. i would love to see a stock apex try and plow all day through pow like this. maybe there were a couple out there but i just couldn't see them because they're sooooo heavy they were totally under the snow guess i should take some kind of snow radar with me so i don't run over one when i'm out this weekend or just strap an extra 100lbs to my hood...

 

[HYFLYR]

come on 4 strokers you can do better than that, i need entertainment here in the middle of the night. like they say riding a stock 4 stroke is great as long as all your buddies are also. i would love to see a stock apex try and plow all day through pow like this. maybe there were a couple out there but i just couldn't see them because they're sooooo heavy they were totally under the snow guess i should take some kind of snow radar with me so i don't run over one when i'm out this weekend or just strap an extra 100lbs to my hood...

Dont you have homework to do or something Run along now, go play with the other little kids. When you grow up you can ride with the big boys too.

 

[Snoboner]

We've had great snow . In 4 ft of deep we had to adjust our route so a nytro could follow, not compete. How much does the turbo help when its tight ? 45 mph track speeds are held back unless your digging.
What is the cost of insurance on a 20-30k ,200-300 hp sled ? Will they even sell it to you ? 12k,150hp sled costing me 400+ .
I don't believe a turboed 4 stroke will reduce my costs. At this time a non-turboed does not compete.

You don't even have a clue.

 

[Stlhead]

I ride a Nytro, I was a Doo guy, but I like it when my crank stays in one piece for entire rides. So I got a Nytro this year. I believed the stuff that I was seeing on the net so I was about to order a turbo kit before I had even ridden my new sled, but someone said to me "Hey you should ride the thing the way they built it before you go modding it so at least you have a reference point for the success of your changes." So I did, and I never did order the turbo kit. This sled will go anywhere my XRS 159 went, with less track and less HP. And it is even more fun to ride. As stated by others it is a very capable sled in stock form and performs very well after adjusted for local conditions. If I had larger testicles I would need the turbo, but as I am blessed with only average sized testicles I can appreciate the call of the hairdryer I do not feel like my sled NEEDS one to "Compete". I will admit that this summer I am going to build a turbo Nytro, but I am going to leave the one I am riding now NA. I just like building and working on toys, but my riding needs are not as great as my building desires. Winter nights and late summer afternoons spent wrenching in the shop are excellent ways to spend free time. While not as much fun as riding, certain trade offs must be made to accommodate work and family commitments. This "sport" is a hobby that fills spare time and costs a great deal of money, some have more time, and some have more money, all that really matters is that the participants are satisfied with the pleasure they get for the investment of time and money. It really does not matter whose sled is the best or the worse performing sled on the hill, it does not matter if someone uses a $50,000 TApex as a trail sled, or if a guy on a 99 700 RMK is breaking trail to the fresh bowls. As long as people are having fun and no one goes to the hospital or morgue, who really cares if brand X makes more power or if brand Y is lighter. Sleds are for fun, if your sled is not fun then sell it and get a new one or take up another hobby, the world is absolutely full of them. So can we all just hold hands and sing coombya instead of fighting over who has the best sled?

 

[PistonBroke]

lol....

It think it's 89sandinmycrackman.....


Cost of sledding? WAY cheaper when you run 4 stroke per mile.

-no more buying injection oil
-one $65 oil change per year, unlimited mileage
-better mileage
-most important: the sled(motor) will outlast your 2-stoke by a factor of 10.

Normally I wouldn't post to an inflammatory post like this, but come on dude...

SHOW ME THE MATH. Prove to me your melting M8 is cheaper to run than my Apex. I also highmark stock M8's with my stock Apex, so don't throw that boosted bullhonkey argument in there either.

Give'er!

PistonBroke