4 strokes and the cost of sledding

[89sandman]

has anyone else thought how much the price of sledding is going to increase if everyone goes 4 stroke? seems you have to supercharge or turbo one to make it compete with the 2 strokes. have never seen ONE post where it states my stock 4 stroke was highmarking everyone. never once! with yami wanting over 10k for a 600 class sled, then the 5k plus to put on the turbo, your into a new sled at least 15k before you've even pulled the cord. another thing i never see the 4 strokers mention is the cost of rebuilding the motor. you could almost buy a 2 stroke sled for what your gonna pay! you can rebuild the top end on a 2 stroke for a few hundred dollars, and in a few hours. not the same on the 4 stroke. reliabitlity seems to be a selling point for the 4 stroke, but put the turbo on it and i see plenty of posts of rods, cranks going out. seems the reliabilty factor goes when the boost goes on. or do you have to put another 10 grand into carrilo rods and the such to make it half as reliable as it was before the boost? i have a good old 02 800 mountain cat with almost 10,000 miles and has never had ANY engine work done to it. almost 3,000 miles on my M8, no motor work.seems pretty reliable to me! not too many peeps willing to spend that kind of coin for a 2-4 month a year sport. let the games begin...

 

[Ollie]

2 - 4 month sport??
You need to move.

If I don't get at least 6 months it is a BAD year or I blew something up. Last year was an 8 month season. Started in Oct.

I have been watching the 4 stroke market. If they can get a 140hp sled down to around 500 - 510 lbs dry, I will prob. give em a try. The cost of sleds is getting stupid expensive. I just spent 9k for a sled that I then had to spend 1500 more on to get it set up properly. All that so I can replace it in 3 years.

You don't have to put a turbo on a 4 stroke. It is just an easy way to get massive power. I don't need or want massive hp. As long as I can get 100-110 at elevation I am good with it. I am just waiting for them to get the weight thing under control. Still to nose heavy for my liking.

 

[lava]

10k miles on a mtn cat w/ no motor work? more than a few are likely curious...what the heck oil are you using?

 

[MTm7]

yamalube BABY!

 

[snowmobiler]

got tree?LOL

 

[Snoboner]

Oh Ron, you just opened a can of worms. My Apex had a total of $14,000 spent on it till I got greedy and went for the rods and pistons that I have only triggered once. Don't need that kind of HP like I thought I would. 12 lbs on pump gas , throttle and forget. How many Guys have more than that on thier smokers? Lots! I had more than that into my KK and still fought with it every ride. I probably will have less than what some smokers put into their sleds in 3 years than what I will have spent on the Nytro.

 

[SylvanLaker]

I think the real question is where are we gonna put our Muffpots if everything goes four stroke!!!

 

[Snoboner]

I think the real question is where are we gonna put our Muffpots if everything goes four stroke!!!

Yamaha makes a two-up!

 

[BigFish BC]

I think the real question is where are we gonna put our Muffpots if everything goes four stroke!!!

on the turbo.

 

[Jaynelson]

When they get the hp/weight ratio reasonably close, I'll jump ship in a hearbeat.

Once that happens, I only see the cost of sledding going way down;

- No oil consumed/bought each ride
- Oil change intervals instead of motor change intervals
- Use less fuel (in theory)
- No time wasted cleaning powervalves
- Far, far less blown cranks, pistons, rings, reeds, etc and all the cost/opportunity cost of something almost guaranteed to blow up every few thousand miles, if not sooner.

Reliable four strokes for everyone and figure out some kind of direct-drive system instead of this hokey belt driven/2 clutch non sense and sledding would so affordable I'd puke.....

 

[03rmking]

It's obvious you've never rode one. I've put 3200 on my turbo and have yet to pull the cord.

I would also change the word "compete" to something along the lines of crush, dominate, obliterate, etc. Once the turbo is installed, there is no competing with 2 strokes.

 

[Remmy]

I would also change the word "compete" to something along the lines of crush, dominate, obliterate, etc. Once the turbo is installed, there is no competing with 2 strokes.

Well said.

You two-strokers crack me up sometimes. A stock Apex Mountain does a fine job competing with M7s and M8s. Add a turbo and there is no competition other than another boosted sled.

 

[feetsbig]

Was at my local dealer today,New Nytro on sale,$13,199,Can + 12%tax,turbo,$6500+tax.already over 20k,plus it still needs more track,better shocks,and liteweight parts,sails by 25k Can. in a hurry.When Yamaha can make a 4s that weighs less than my M1,with as much power,as much track,and as good a shocks,I'll be on one.Till then,I'll not buy another Yami.

 

[SLY]

Some guys are happy with 500 fans, some are happy with 800's while others like to have the M1000. Why have an M1000? probably 'cos it crushes the 800's., LOL. I have been running turbo'd 4 strokes for 4 years and have NEVER touched a motor other than to put a head shim in(touch wood) The power is highly addictive and makes it hard to ride without a turbo. The reliability of these 4 strokes, even when boosted at moderate levels, is better than anything out there. Belt life is incredible. I respect your choice but spend what you are comfortable with and enjoy. Stock sleds are not immune to problems, I know of 2 guys with failed cranks on new M1000's and we won't even open the worm can on the Rev reliability.

 

[89sandman]

It's obvious you've never rode one. I've put 3200 on my turbo and have yet to pull the cord.

I would also change the word "compete" to something along the lines of crush, dominate, obliterate, etc. Once the turbo is installed, there is no competing with 2 strokes.

thats right there is no comparing these sleds in stock form because niether the nitro or the apex will hang with a 800 2 stroke unless it is boosted. i'd like to see the apex or nitro stock hang with any of the new 800's, its just not gonna happen. would love to have seen either of these sleds running in the powder we were in this weekend stock.talked to the major yami dealer for turbos here in oregon today, for a new apex or nitro with an entry level turbo and no suspension upgrades is about 18k. this is a 9lb boost on pump gas. only 240 hp. hmmm for that kind of cash in a 2 stroke i think i could get a m1000 get 240 hp and still have at least a couple grand left over suspension upgrades. if turbos are so reliable why aren't all the manufactures putting them on from the factory. is it because all that boost shortens the life of the engine? try and tell me boosting the power with a turbo doesn't put a ton of extra stress on the whole motor. that is why they quit putting turbos in most passenger cars, blown head gaskets and engines that wouldn't last half as long as thier counterparts without them. yes i have ridden a turbo apex, thank you snoboner, and yes it is the best hillclimbing machine i have ever seen on the mountain, bar none. but for the average sledder like me the cost is just tooo high. if they want to keep this sport alive $20 grand sleds are not the way to go!!! dave, i love the 2up muffpot better get a trademark on that name before someone else does!!!!

 

[SNOW JW]

Now is the best time to buy a used Turbo 4-Stroke there are a few in snowest here for 12k with 2000 miles. They will easy run another 4k miles easy!!! without ever touching them. Now that's a steal and will smoke almost all the two strokes out there.

 

[SNOW JW]

if turbos are so reliable why aren't all the manufactures putting them on from the factory.

They are the Polaris FTS puts out I think 160hp and is only a 750 twin. Some of the watercraft motors now have blowers and they take a ton of abuse WOT for long periods of time across the lakes.

 

[Snoboner]

thats right there is no comparing these sleds in stock form because niether the nitro or the apex will hang with a 800 2 stroke unless it is boosted. i'd like to see the apex or nitro stock hang with any of the new 800's, its just not gonna happen. would love to have seen either of these sleds running in the powder we were in this weekend stock.talked to the major yami dealer for turbos here in oregon today, for a new apex or nitro with an entry level turbo and no suspension upgrades is about 18k. this is a 9lb boost on pump gas. only 240 hp. hmmm for that kind of cash in a 2 stroke i think i could get a m1000 get 240 hp and still have at least a couple grand left over suspension upgrades. if turbos are so reliable why aren't all the manufactures putting them on from the factory. is it because all that boost shortens the life of the engine? try and tell me boosting the power with a turbo doesn't put a ton of extra stress on the whole motor. that is why they quit putting turbos in most passenger cars, blown head gaskets and engines that wouldn't last half as long as thier counterparts without them. yes i have ridden a turbo apex, thank you snoboner, and yes it is the best hillclimbing machine i have ever seen on the mountain, bar none. but for the average sledder like me the cost is just tooo high. if they want to keep this sport alive $20 grand sleds are not the way to go!!! dave, i love the 2up muffpot better get a trademark on that name before someone else does!!!!

You can do a new Apex or Nytro with a turbo or supercharger on your own for less than $15,000 New M 1000 is $12,000 SLP Performance package is what $2800.00 ? Not bashong the big Cat but I' ridden a few and wanted my Turbo back but the 1000 rider that took off on the Turbo didn't want to get off. Seen a lot of cylinders being ordered for those sleds also. It's only as expensive as you make it. One thing you don't hear the Smokers fessing up to is what they spend on Mods!And yes, the Nytros are running stronger with a few hundred miles on them and do run with a stock 800. My Apex would run with Poo 900s and MC 900s with no problem when it was stock. and they were not stock.

 

[Climbmax]

All sledding costs money.......and some levels cost more
How bad do you want it?
Seems more coming to the 4 stroke side than leaving.......just like BRP
I know they are not for everyone..........its your money spend it wisely
RS

 

[4fun]

We've had great snow . In 4 ft of deep we had to adjust our route so a nytro could follow, not compete. How much does the turbo help when its tight ? 45 mph track speeds are held back unless your digging.
What is the cost of insurance on a 20-30k ,200-300 hp sled ? Will they even sell it to you ? 12k,150hp sled costing me 400+ .
I don't believe a turboed 4 stroke will reduce my costs. At this time a non-turboed does not compete.