23 to 24 million more acres of wilderness proposed in five western states

[Tedd]

I have yet to go to an ATV dealer and see a BRC or SAWS banner on their wall. You'd think that'd be the first thing they'd put up.

I can tell you that a few of our local dealers here in Oregon have my SAWS business cards displayed on their counters as well as brochures that give information about us. The problem is that not ALL of them are willing to do so.

 

[Oregongirl]

You would think it would be in Polaris, Yamaha, Can-Am, Arctic Cat, as well as Honda, Suzuki, etc's best interest to put even a small portion of their revenues into promoting pro access groups as well as heavily lobbying washington. Fight fire with fire.

I have seen no evidence whatsoever that any of them do this.

What is SAWS take on trying to get manufacturers and dealers involved?

I have yet to go to an ATV dealer and see a BRC or SAWS banner on their wall. You'd think that'd be the first thing they'd put up.

This is a supremely frustrating part of the equation! Frankly, I don't understand it either. I am continually amazed that dealerships and vendors are often not even members of pro-access groups themselves. Much less spreading the good word through banners, flyers or including literature on BRC, SAWS, ARRA, etc. when they sell equipment or parts. I recently asked a dealership here in OR if they could put brochures at their parts counter and they took them, but they didn't seem that eager to do so. I've not been in there to see if they are even out or not.

In general - the other side has far more activism - from manufacturers to just people on street, more money, and more "green" promotional politics than motorized, pro-access groups do. We simply need more people to push this snowball uphill.

OR - maybe the manufacturer's know something we don't.....which, since they are continuing to develop new technologies and deliver to the marketplace, year after year, would appear to be a good sign. I'm not recommending that anyone hold their breath based on this theory!!

 

[donbrown]

I see that you are still online Don, so here goes my attempt to answer a few of your questions and explain a little about SAWS, and what the volunteers at SAWS are attempting to do.

Don, here are a few of my responses to your statements and questions:



Great. Thanks for joining Don.



Great again. Wish more snowmobilers would take the time to do so.



I know Fred, the President of CNSA, and I have talked to him a couple of times about land use issues. I am glad to hear that everything seems to be taken care of in CA and NV these days. In my last conversation with Fred, it seemed that CNSA could only do so much, due to the lack of concern and involvement from the general snowmobile crowd in CA. Hopefully something has recently changed.

SAWS has the same "lack of involvement" problem in numerous states, but many snowmobilers (certainly not all) in CA and NV seem to be among some of the least concerned about loss of riding areas if membership in CNSA and SAWS from these states are a sign of how many people care to get involved from these states. I don't have the figures in front of me at my current location, but I believe our total SAWS membership from these two states is around 100 members combined out of over 3000 plus current SAWS members, and we have not had a SAWS rep in these states for several years.


I can provide you a detailed description of the responsibilities of a SAWS rep if you wish and are truly interested. Note, these are not paid positions. There are no paid positions in SAWS. We are all volunteers.



Did I miss something? I did not see anything wrong with Susie's post. You can tell she is frustrated, as I am too, with the lack of volunteer help for SAWS. At the same time we always have a few people that expect SAWS to do this or that, which is either not tied to our mission statement, or that the few of us volunteers do not have the time or energy to take on. Sorry if you were somehow offended by her plea for more people to help us keep our riding areas open and for snowmobilers in general to get involved. Sounds like you do get involved to some degree. Good for you.



SAWS needs help in every western state, especially in CA, NV, WY, CO and UT. Even if it is just an hour a week, we could use the help. We may need to step away from some of these states soon without additional help.

Here are links to some additional information about SAWS, what we do, and how you can help.

Who is the Snowmobile Alliance of Western States?
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39187


SAWS National Forest Watchdogs Needed NOW
http://www.klymazzation.com/saws-national-forest-watchdogs-needed-now/

Thanks,

Dave

Dave you guys have no idea how much crap I get for owning a snowmobile.

From my neighbors "urging" me to get rid of them to people calling the cops when I tune them for 5 minutes. To the times police pull me over for a OHV inspection.

As far as being a SAWS representative. How much "litigation protection" does a representative have when the locals here litigate me to the poor house.

Hell I even had a neighbor call the Department of agriculture for having a garden in my own back yard ... his complaint was he saw an aphid fly from my yard onto his.

Susie's post demonstrated to me the struggle of the battle we fight.

THOUGHT ATTITUDE BEHAVIOR RESULTS

You guys need to plant the seeds of success for our cause.

AGAIN SAWS means to the public:

Jobs, Fee revenues, Tourist dollars, environmental conditions controlled and enhanced, reduced DEATH AND ILLNESS TO THE PEOPLE OF THE USA from out of control forest fires. Community involvement and less dependence on foreign oil

You gotta use the buzzwords of the day plus the tool / technology of today.

Notice how I never said snowmobiling? Why ... cause only people who use snowmobiles or have an economic benefit really care about us sledders. Because the masses are ignorant to the cause and effect of how a person on a snowmobile impacts their world ... and absolutely makes their life better.

Fill the value gap with things people want.

Have you noticed how an environmental whacko doesn't say you can't snowmobile. They choose a strategy everyone understands.

What "value" does snowmobiling provide?

We need to go after the politicians contributors and constiuents. See what each politician has to loose. I consider this strategy until "value" is created in the minds and hearts of all americans. Because right now today we don't have enough value with the general public.

Is the Amercan Lung Association in their district? Great have 100's of SAWS members write letters to the ALA asking this: Does breathing mercury and potash help my lungs ? No ... well Congress person in your district is supporting a bill to make sure you breath mercury and potash. Thru a natural process called forest fires.

Does the congress person have a union there who has employees at a company that makes a part for any of the machines we use in the snow ??? Yes well get a 100 SAWS people to write to the union and ask them .....

You should send a press release to the CEO of Catepillar and all the UNIONS involved with this headline:

USA CONGRESS AND PRESIDENT OBAMA TO PASS A LAW BANNING ANY CATEPILLAR EQUIPMENT ON 23-24 MILLION ACREAS OF PUBLIC LAND

How many people could you get to support SAWS with this strategy??? Maybe you should look at how ACORN thrives with government money.

Please don't spend much time on me ... cause you are preaching to one who fully supports your cause. We must spend the time on the non believers.

 

[donbrown]

I can tell you that a few of our local dealers here in Oregon have my SAWS business cards displayed on their counters as well as brochures that give information about us. The problem is that not ALL of them are willing to do so.

Why are they not willing?

 

[Tedd]

Why are they not willing?

That my friend I wish I knew the answer to as well, but unfortunately like you I do not have it.
I have been told by a local dealer that the reason they are not willing to pass out brochures and membership applications for pro-access groups to their customers during a purchase of a new snowmobile, atv, or dirtbike comes down to one thing and that is not wanting to add another form to the purchase process. Is that a good excuse? I don't believe so, but they do have a point at the same time. I purchased a new street bike last spring and thought the paperwork was never going to come to an end. In the end, we all need to do whatever it is we can do to fight these closures. Preferably these actions that we take will be lawful and not give us a worse image than we already have.
Have a good one....

 

[SnowSnob]

Not sure if anyone has said this yet but I found out this is the same beotch from NY that tried to push this same bill through last year and has been doing this every year since the 90's.
At least she's persistant.....but really just needs a bullet in head.
Knowing that put me at ease a little cause she's tried and failed for so long that even the politicains thinks it's ridiculous but I'm sure one day enough will be getting their pockets lined and get on bored with such a ridiculous bill.
If this ever goes through I'm going to NY right before I start picking Wilderness areas to ride and have a little talk with this chick....OK less talk and more wack.

 

[TIM]

retailers

That my friend I wish I knew the answer to as well, but unfortunately like you I do not have it.
I have been told by a local dealer that the reason they are not willing to pass out brochures and membership applications for pro-access groups to their customers during a purchase of a new snowmobile, atv, or dirtbike comes down to one thing and that is not wanting to add another form to the purchase process. Is that a good excuse? I don't believe so, but they do have a point at the same time. I purchased a new street bike last spring and thought the paperwork was never going to come to an end. In the end, we all need to do whatever it is we can do to fight these closures. Preferably these actions that we take will be lawful and not give us a worse image than we already have.
Have a good one....

the question you are asking is so easy it isn't even funny. Retailers sell. That is it. Most retailers can't even get the employee to ask for the sale let alone talk about land use. Land use is not important at all to a retail salesperson. A snowmobile, atv, stereo, dress are all the same thing. They are just products to sell, nothing more nothing less. and it is hard enough for the employer to get the salesperson to ask for the helmet, oil cover, etc. Let alone let me tell you about land use.

think about it, there are alot of dealers that don't even ride the stuff they sell. Do you think they care about the politics of the sport? no they don't. It doesn't affect the average consumer if land gets shut down. there is always some where else to ride. The loop trails that 95% of sledders ride are not being shut down.
tim

 

[Dogmeat]

This is a supremely frustrating part of the equation! Frankly, I don't understand it either. I am continually amazed that dealerships and vendors are often not even members of pro-access groups themselves. Much less spreading the good word through banners, flyers or including literature on BRC, SAWS, ARRA, etc. when they sell equipment or parts. I recently asked a dealership here in OR if they could put brochures at their parts counter and they took them, but they didn't seem that eager to do so. I've not been in there to see if they are even out or not.

In general - the other side has far more activism - from manufacturers to just people on street, more money, and more "green" promotional politics than motorized, pro-access groups do. We simply need more people to push this snowball uphill.

OR - maybe the manufacturer's know something we don't.....which, since they are continuing to develop new technologies and deliver to the marketplace, year after year, would appear to be a good sign. I'm not recommending that anyone hold their breath based on this theory!!

What would it take to have a massive movement for BRC, SAWS, etc to petition the manufacturers and dealers and basically tell them: "Get involved or else" ..

What I mean is, we need a concise organized grass-roots effort starting with the existing pro-access advocacy groups going to the manufacturers with a plan of action that involves them and put it in terms they can understand: Show them how it effects their bottom line.

I'd be willing to help any way I could with something like this but we would need some serious brainstorming here and it would require a lot of work, but if SAWS and BRC would be willing to formulate something like this I could put as much leg work into it as I could..

What we really need to do is get some lawyers on our side.

 

[CleElum Sledhead]

Regarding the manufacturers getting involved.

I have spoken with high up folks at Ski-Doo and Polaris.

Ski-Doo said they give to BRC and are not interested in giving to SAWS. I have no idea how much they give to BRC, but I hope it is a boatload.

Polaris said they offer no programs to give to organizations to help keep our riding areas open.

I decided it was not worth the effort to contact Yamaha and Arctic Cat after talking with these other two companys.

Below is my interview with Lee Hinkleman at IROC and Beyond in New York from yesterday regarding this bill.

http://www.bigfrog104.com/TipsforBe...County/SnowmobileShow/tabid/3397/Default.aspx

This interview was in response to my SAWS Action Alert regarding the Northern Rockies Economic Protection Act.

SAWS Interview with Lee Hinkleman at IROC and Beyond

Fist half of my interview (Segment 3)
http://media.regentcomm.com/uti/wfrg/iroc/audio/roc30221.mp3


Second half of my interview (Segment 4)
http://media.regentcomm.com/uti/wfrg/iroc/audio/roc40221.mp3

 

[Dogmeat]

That's good for getting some commercial publicity like that Dave

However, I have to disagree with you on one of the points you made:

I think Rep. Maloney knows exactly what a wilderness area is unfortunatley

 

[CleElum Sledhead]

I have to disagree with you on one of the points you made:

I think Rep. Maloney knows exactly what a wilderness area is unfortunatley

I am sure you are correct Dogmeat (what the heck is your first name anyway).

Heck, I was nervous, so I said whatever came to my little mind.

 

[snowmobiler]

excellent interview dave
wish i could speak half that good without flying off the handle.

 

[donbrown]

I am sure you are correct Dogmeat (what the heck is your first name anyway).

Heck, I was nervous, so I said whatever came to my little mind.

Get a tape recorder or in this case play back the interview over and over to yourself so you can refine your interview.

When speaking people listen to 3 things , The entire interview , the type of words you use and the tone / emphasis you place on each words.

For people under 35 make a point ever 3-7 seconds.

 

[donbrown]

Has anyone equated Wilderness equals the loss of natural resources?

Loss of business from less people using the forest?

Has anyone plastered pictures of the
"devastation from natural wilderness forest fires"

If you can't find them here in the USA look to Australia where a 100 people dies and 1,000 of homes died. Granted some claim the fire was started by a downed power line.

Well ... does any of the US forest have power lines running through it?
Has anyone wrtten a letter asking the power companies on how they will pay if the fire is started by a downed power line? Maybe the power companies would support us in using maintaining trails to reach the power lines and keep the trails as fire breaks access roads?

In Californis they will file a claim against anyone / or any entity involved in starting the fire ... beside those set deliberately.
From a ranch worker welding a pipe to get water to cattle to a person whose car broke down on the side of the road and caught fire.

 

[kiliki]

Write your Representative!!

I spoke with my rep and he does not support Nrepa
(why does someone dipsh!t from NY care about Idaho). I am writing a letter too. As posted before, this will hurt so many small towns. Revenue from people like us is the only the $$$$$ some of these places get.

Write! Write! Write!

 

[donbrown]

I spoke with my rep and he does not support Nrepa
(why does someone dipsh!t from NY care about Idaho). I am writing a letter too. As posted before, this will hurt so many small towns. Revenue from people like us is the only the $$$$$ some of these places get.

Write! Write! Write!

Because the people out WEST ... BOXER , PELOSI , FEINSTEIN ... are running the federal government right now.

Pelosi (D-CA) and Reid (D-NV) WROTE the stimulus package

So they get their buddies to get controversial legislature started in another part of the country. That way ... who ya gonna blame ... who ya gonna go after?

Do you attack Pelosi for 50 million for a rodent mouse research in her district ... in the stimulus package?

Do you attack REID for 2 billion for a SPEED train from LA to Vegas in his state ... in the stimulus package?

Do you attack Pelosi for getting 85% of their water in San Franciso from Yosemite National Forest? ( and destroying 1,000 of acreas by dams) When San Francisco is surround on 3 sides by a unlimited amount of water from desalination? This should be asked by everyone who is anybody.

UNTIL YOU FIGUIRE OUT HOW TO ATTACK THE VERY FOUNDATIONS OF THESE POLITICAL "MACHINES" THEY WILL JUST KEEP GETTING THEIR WAY

 

[Ov3rthetop]

wrote my rep and joined SAWS. I want my kids to be able to ride.

 

[Oregongirl]

Because the people out WEST ... BOXER , PELOSI , FEINSTEIN ... are running the federal government right now.

Pelosi (D-CA) and Reid (D-NV) WROTE the stimulus package

So they get their buddies to get controversial legislature started in another part of the country. That way ... who ya gonna blame ... who ya gonna go after?

Do you attack Pelosi for 50 million for a rodent mouse research in her district ... in the stimulus package?

Do you attack REID for 2 billion for a SPEED train from LA to Vegas in his state ... in the stimulus package?

Do you attack Pelosi for getting 85% of their water in San Franciso from Yosemite National Forest? ( and destroying 1,000 of acreas by dams) When San Francisco is surround on 3 sides by a unlimited amount of water from desalination? This should be asked by everyone who is anybody.

UNTIL YOU FIGUIRE OUT HOW TO ATTACK THE VERY FOUNDATIONS OF THESE POLITICAL "MACHINES" THEY WILL JUST KEEP GETTING THEIR WAY

Don - It would be FANTASTIC if you could put together some informational content that could be distributed in the form of brochures, email distributions, etc. This is going to have to be a grass-roots efforts by the motorized and rural communities in the West to change the views of the American public. We need an "Al Gore" in our camp!!!

If you or any others out there, what to take the lead on this type of campaign creation, SAWS is willing to be a part of it. Right now we just don't have the resource depth to do it without more members becoming directly involved.

There have been alot of great ideas shared on this thread - now we need the ideas to become actions. Please folks - if you have the time and the dedication to focus on just one area, now is the time. We need YOUR HELP!!