ahh.. forgot the DI versus injectors in the airbox, into the runners.... Yup, that would be hard to do...
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2-stroke strikes back on 4-stroke "greenwash"?
- Thread starter 4Z
- Start date
ahh.. forgot the DI versus injectors in the airbox, into the runners.... Yup, that would be hard to do...
E
ericsmallbore
ACCOUNT CLOSED
Ineresting.
I only bought a 450 fourstroke dirtbike, because I needed more power than my 250 2st, and nobody made it.... I rode a ktm 300, and have never been so disappointed in a bike in my life. My RM250 setup properly smoked it... So, I had to go 4st but it wouldn't have been my first choice. if honda still made a 500 smoker, other than the service honda for 16g's... i would have bought one in a heartbeat. If the bike companies come back around and build a 450 2 st or something, I will own one in a heartbeat... But, I have ridden older 500 smokers, and the 450 pulls for WAY longer, and doesn't seem to sign off for much longer than a smoker. Come on KTM wheres the 500 2 st?? Make one, and I will buy it
I rode a bone stock '07 KTM 300xc and a bone stock '07 CRF450r back to back.... I handed the guy back his KTM laughing, and went a bought a 450 a week later
I rode a bone stock '07 KTM 300xc and a bone stock '07 CRF450r back to back.... I handed the guy back his KTM laughing, and went a bought a 450 a week later
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Sounds like all of the die hard 2 stroke guys should quit supporting Honda and Yamaha.
As much of a Honda fan that I am I hate to see them give up on the 2 smokes.
As much of a Honda fan that I am I hate to see them give up on the 2 smokes.
E
Ex-Member
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Heck arent Doos going this route already? Glad to see them getting the recognition.
SH 500 is only around 10 - 12g's. But that is with all the bells and whistles. By the time you pick up a new CRF450, add excel wheels, scotts, bars, suspension set up etc. (all the bells and whistles) where does that leave a guy $ wise? 10-12 g's?
the quote I got was 14,900, for the SH500... I got my CRF with all the bells and whistles, pipe, jetting, bars, risers, and a bunch of misc... new plastics and stuff out the door for 9800 taxes in. Its a nice bike, but sure not worth that IMO... remember, I'm canadian we get hosed on our prices. Don't get me wrong, I would like a 500 2smoker, but it wasn't wroth the $$ to me
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My bad, didn't consider your location.....
I couldn't/didn't want to afford one either. so I built my own. 8k USD (not factoring my time)
I don't know. I've had sleds burn down because I ran them too hard and they got hot and detonated and seized. I've had sleds burn down running WFO across a lake at relatively warm temps (20F) with stock jetting. I've had sleds catch a ring or skirt and shatter a piston. In short, I've experienced many failures in my 25 years of snowmachining but the MX bikes have been way more reliable. I've also witnessed my buddies 2-stroke sleds burn down or blow up countless times. I basically view any 2-stroke sled with over 3000 miles as a time bomb waiting to go off.
I like my new four stroke sleds. I still own and ride 2-stroke sleds as well and like them for their lighter weight and agility. I just don't see the two stoke motor was being the future. Even if you add all kinds of computer control to it, you still have ring snagging transfer ports, lubrication issues and the fact that two strokes are running a power cycle every stroke rather than every other stroke and that heat is more difficult to shed.
In MX they gave the 4-strokes a CC advantage because a 2 stroke makes more power per CC than a 4-stroke. The argument should be focused on what the is the most proper & fair displacement handicap awarded to the 4-stroke MX bike rather than the type of motor.
^^Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that a sled is geared to turn...say 8200 rpm, and with the right clutching, will/should run there MOST of the day. Talk to any engine builder, the worst thing on a motor is SUSTAINED high rpm pulls, and that what sled clutching does, shifting in a dirt bike allows rings, piston skirts, domes, etc. to displace some of the heat that is built on its short pull in the powerband.
Yes, two strokes are typically a bit less reliable than a thumper, but look at the shear amount of torture we inflict on them!
Not to mention, when you burn a hole in a piston on a two stroke, piston, rings, maybe a hone. $150
Burn a hole in a thumper, piston, rings, hone, valve job, cam chain?, valves?, cam sprockets?, cam bearings?, what else got contaminated by metal in the oil? $$$++++
Yes, two strokes are typically a bit less reliable than a thumper, but look at the shear amount of torture we inflict on them!
Not to mention, when you burn a hole in a piston on a two stroke, piston, rings, maybe a hone. $150
Burn a hole in a thumper, piston, rings, hone, valve job, cam chain?, valves?, cam sprockets?, cam bearings?, what else got contaminated by metal in the oil? $$$++++
wow that BC bud is good, maybe cut back a little the bs is rising.
T
Trinity Taz
ACCOUNT CLOSED
What ever happened to the fellow (in Utah I believe) that was developing a 2-stroke engine that used a diaphram to seperate the intake port passage from the crankcase therefore allowing the crank to run on oil-pressurized bushings? The atomization charge was accomplished by a seperate chamber that had reeds at the carb end and the diaphram transferred the piston pumping action to the chamber.
You can accomplish something similar with a stepped piston design.
http://users.breathe.com/prhooper/opads.htm
This only works for engines with an even number of cylinders.
B
BackCountryBob
Well-known member
I have an 08 60HP E-tec on a 4,200# semi displacement hulled sail boat that runs at 8,200'altitude. My top speed is on average 17 kts. Docked right next to me is the exact same boat with a Merc 60HP Big Foot FI.
We both run the same prop but the E-tec weighs 240# and the Merc 320#. Its a funny picture to see but in a drag race I can pull him out of the hole and never look back. We both turn 5,500 rpm but I can cruise 12 kts @ 3,200 rpm while he has to turn 3,600. Never raced top speed with him as the water conditions were too lumpy.
We have never done a fuel/hour test but I can attest that it gets 2Xs better fuel economy than old school 2 strokes. Oil consumption is really low if you use the optional E-tec oil which runs (I am told this) at about 100:1 ($32/g) compared to 40:1. There is a dealer only remap for oil type.
Everything Evenrude advertises about this family of E-tecs is true--more torque, low DBs, no smoke, light weight, 3 year warrany, no break in, 25 amp alternator, altitude compensating.
I would love to ride an enduro 250 E-tec dirt bike 6 spd pushing 60HP with 50-60 mpgs and I have been riding Honda 4s since 1983.
BCB
We both run the same prop but the E-tec weighs 240# and the Merc 320#. Its a funny picture to see but in a drag race I can pull him out of the hole and never look back. We both turn 5,500 rpm but I can cruise 12 kts @ 3,200 rpm while he has to turn 3,600. Never raced top speed with him as the water conditions were too lumpy.
We have never done a fuel/hour test but I can attest that it gets 2Xs better fuel economy than old school 2 strokes. Oil consumption is really low if you use the optional E-tec oil which runs (I am told this) at about 100:1 ($32/g) compared to 40:1. There is a dealer only remap for oil type.
Everything Evenrude advertises about this family of E-tecs is true--more torque, low DBs, no smoke, light weight, 3 year warrany, no break in, 25 amp alternator, altitude compensating.
I would love to ride an enduro 250 E-tec dirt bike 6 spd pushing 60HP with 50-60 mpgs and I have been riding Honda 4s since 1983.
BCB
F
flying pig
Well-known member
So are you saying I shouldn't run a two stroke a WFO? Problem is, I need to do that for sometimes 10 minute long periods of time when I'm climbing up steep grades onto glaciers. Also take into account that my riding is all done at sea level to 6,000 FT.
Sure, two strokes are cheaper to rebuild, I completely agree. Problem is, you do it more often, multiple times. You also need to consider how much your time is worth when you spend a day towing your sled off the hill. Plus, how many favors do you know owe your buddies?
As far as RPM, dirt bikes typically do not see the sustained high RPM use unless they are being raced out in the desert. I'm thinking the difference in reliability may lie in that snowmachines are always running "uphill" like a boat when running in powder, deep or loose snow. Dirt bike seldom see these types of conditions. Therefore their motors are not stressed to such a degree.
