16ltd will not start

[one wheeler peeler]

I have a 16 proclimb with around 1000 miles and sled is stock except for can and been rock solid up to now. I just got back from a McCall trip and on day 4 the sled wouldn't start while trying to get it off the deck. I took apart the throttle block and disconnected what I thought was the TSS...didn't help. The pull rope started to fray, so I replaced it yesterday when I got back home. I was hoping that the sled sitting in the garage for a couple days would take care of any moisture in the throttle block (if that was the issue) but it still won't start. The strange thing is that even while trying to start it on the deck, the compression during the pulls was VERY inconsistent. Sometimes it was easy and other times you could barely pull. I tried the "turn ignition/kill switch off" technique and pull 10-15 times and retry...same result. After 3 start attempts in the garage, the fuel smell coming from the sled was really strong.

The pulls are still really inconsistent and the fuel smell is strong...flooded motor? I'm going to try and pull the plugs today and check condition, and for spark. I might even put in new plugs.
Shouldn't the pull 10-15 times with electrics off clear the motor? Would a flooded 800 be the reason for the hard pulls? Depending on spark, I will probably check injectors. A friend of a friend said the reeds might be the culprit. I have also read about a bad stator in a previous post.

Anyone else deal with similar issues?

Thanks...

 

[boondocker97]

Friend had an injector stick open overnight in the trailer and flooded it out to where it couldn't be started. Same sled as yours. Took him two days in the shop when we got home pulling it over with the fuel pump disconnected before it was cleaned out enough to start with new injectors. If you pull the plugs and spin it over make sure the kill switch is on. His had so much fuel coming out the plug holes it would have burned the sled down if it would have ignited.

If your pickup coil somehow got bumped and lost spark it won't start either. This happened to another friend of mine on a 2012. Ran good for 2 days and on the 3rd would not start.

When I lost my stator it was an instant failure and had no fuel or spark to the motor.

 

[be4life182]

Clear it out for sure. Try unplugging the key altogether both mine and my friends switch crapped out on us. Probably not it, because of the compression thing, but it is quick and easy.

 

[Castforcash]

Could be your voltage regulator.

 

[one wheeler peeler]

Well I just got back from a work trip and was able to start troubleshooting. I checked for spark and she did spark. One of the cat mechanics at the local dealer said he had seen this problem before and for some reason a new set of plugs was the solution. I tried that and still won't start and still has the same smell of fuel after the 2nd pull. I am going to pick up a couple reed valves just in case and start digging into the fuel system. I will reply with things that work and don't work for people with similar issues.

 

[Coldfinger]

Just some random thoughts on what I would do, but I have no special knowlege on what it may be.

Maybe pull plugs, kill switch off, and use drill on crank to turn engine over to clean it out and after you are done check torque on crank bolt to make sure the drill didnt loosen it.

put rags over the spark plug holes to catch excess fuel.

Install plugs and try to start. If no start, pull plugs. If they are wet, repeat whole process.

make sure you have good spark and there are no restrictions in intake or exhaust

also, make sure there is plenty of fresh fuel in tank.

 

[one wheeler peeler]

I looked at the reeds and they still look great, almost new. I talked to another cat mechanic who said he had a sled in the shop last week with a stuck open injector. There is an injector specialist in a town nearby that has equipment that can test and clean injectors. I'll have them tested next week. I can't believe cat wants 200-400 per injector (depending on type) for new ones. This will probably be a great time to pull the motor over a bunch to clean out any excess fuel.

 

[summ8rmk]

I have to ask the obvious as it has not been mentioned.

Have u held the throttle wide open while pulling over?

Sent it

 

[one wheeler peeler]

I have to ask the obvious as it has not been mentioned.

Have u held the throttle wide open while pulling over?

Sent it

Yup, I thought I put that in the initial post but I guess I missed it. When this problem first started, on the sled deck, I started researching the problem and that was a popular solution. A buddy and I tried 10-15 pulls with killswitch and ignition off, and throttle wide open a couple times over the hour or so of initial troubleshooting. I remember the “feel” of the pulls or compression seemed consistent during those 10-15 but as soon as we went to normal ignition and throttle settings the compression was different each pull with the occasional almost unable to pull.

 

[spoon]

Definitely flooded, overfilled my M1000 turbo once and drove to Revy and sled never started again until I got home (brought 2 sleds), pulled plugs, pulled over for days with key off, put new plugs in and a little oil down cylinders to seal washed rings and she fired up and never did it again. Top em off after getting to riding areas now.

 

[one wheeler peeler]

So I sent the injectors off to get inspected and cleaned and it turns out they weren't stuck open. I found a set of injectors on eBay and ordered them assuming one of mine was stuck open and wouldn't able to be fixed. While I was waiting for the new used injectors I pulled the plugs, left the injector mounts open, zip tied the throttle open to allow more air in from the airbox, turned off all ignition, and disconnected the fuel line. I pulled it over for about 30 minutes and fuel was spraying out of most every hole. I can't believe how flooded it was. After 30 minutes of pulling it over, I put everything back together and installed the new used injectors. First pull and it fired right up! It ran for a couple minutes before dying but I realized i forgot to plug in the fuel pump...I still can't believe how flooded it was.

With the injectors not being the cause of the flooding, I don't understand what caused it. I took the sled back out to McCall for a couple days and both mornings it pulled a little hard and on the 3rd pull...just a burble and then it wouldn't start. I tuned off the ignition/kill switch and pulled it over 10 times, turned ignition/killswitch back on and it fired right up. If its anything but overnight cold, it fires on the first pull. If its overnight cold, it wants to flood. Could it be a lack of air issue?

 

[spoon]

Check your water temp and intake temp sensors, might be giving faulty reading to computer causing it to flood on cold soak (overnight) startup.

 

[sleddude]

Glad you got yours running.
My friend is having a no start issue as well.
He made a good pull on a hill and came down and shut it off. Went to start it after 5 minutes and it wouldn’t fire. It has spark and the plugs are bone dry but no fuel pressure when we pulled the line to see if gas was coming out we pulled the pump and checked the smart valves and they looked ok with fuel in them and the lines. Checked the fuses and they looked good. So we towed it out. This is a 2016 M8000 LTD with 450 miles. Hard to believe a fuel pump would go out.

 

[summ8rmk]

Glad you got yours running.
My friend is having a no start issue as well.
He made a good pull on a hill and came down and shut it off. Went to start it after 5 minutes and it wouldn’t fire. It has spark and the plugs are bone dry but no fuel pressure when we pulled the line to see if gas was coming out we pulled the pump and checked the smart valves and they looked ok with fuel in them and the lines. Checked the fuses and they looked good. So we towed it out. This is a 2016 M8000 LTD with 450 miles. Hard to believe a fuel pump would go out.

99.9% sure the pump is toast.
Ive seen them go out with 50mi....., he got 400 more than that. It sucks.

The same battery that wouldn't run Ed's pump, runs my Alpha pump

Sent it

 

[sleddude]

Update
Well good news our friend Ed got the pump to work again. He hooked up a couple jumper wires to a battery charger and ran it forwards and it just clicked then reversed the wires and ran it backwards and it freed up and so he switched them forwards again and could hear the pump building pressure and gradually slowing down. So he hooked everything back up and hit the electric start and it fired up. Repeated the process around 15 times and it hasn’t stuck anymore.
Now what would you guys do? Run it or spend the 500 dollars on a new fuel pump?

 

[summ8rmk]

Buy the pump itself, no need for the whole assembly. Take his pump assembly apart so u can see the pump.
This should work, for less than 1/4 of the price.

Amazon product ASIN B07KBGZRC2
Sent it

 

[North]

Anybody ever heard of an M8000 that only runs when tipped on its left side? Looking at a '16 and the owner thinks it needs a new fuel pump - thinks it's gravity feeding fuel when tipped. Never owned a Proclimb but looking at a diagram of the fuel tank I don't think gravity feed is possible. Pinched harness or fuel line or something else that is freeing up when tipped?

 

[boondocker97]

Anybody ever heard of an M8000 that only runs when tipped on its left side? Looking at a '16 and the owner thinks it needs a new fuel pump - thinks it's gravity feeding fuel when tipped. Never owned a Proclimb but looking at a diagram of the fuel tank I don't think gravity feed is possible. Pinched harness or fuel line or something else that is freeing up when tipped?

Yes. Mine did this once in Cooke City 2 years ago. It was getting lower on fuel, but still plenty in the tank that it shouldn't have had running issues. Tip it on the side and I could get it to start and run fine. Dropped it down on the skis and it would die. Couldn't make heads or tails of it. I had suspected fuel delivery problems since then and cut in a fuel pressure gauge and routed it up in front of the handle bars so I could monitor it. Last year I found the fuel pressure was dropping and running the sled lean and causing it to make the temp light flash. Stator tested bad on the fuel pump supply circuit. Put in a stator from another sled and fuel pressure was back up to at least the minimum range, but not overly strong. Had another bog and then no-start with it this spring when the tank was lower on fuel and pointed slightly downhill. Makes me think there is something wrong with the pump assembly still. I'll probably change it before the season starts to be safe.

 

[North]

Interesting. So it's only happened on yours when the fuel is lower than 1/2 or so? In Cooke did the issue resolve itself with added fuel or something else? Looks like a fuel pump (pump only) is $115 or so - pretty cheap.

Still trying to understand why tipping it left would help. Best I can come up with is that fuel moves to one side of tank and puts extra hydrostatic pressure on one fuel pickup instead of 3 and helps the weak pump along. In that case it seems like a full tank would do something similar. Your example of yours dying facing downhill kinda contradicts all that tho.

 

[boondocker97]

It seems to be an issue for mine when the tank is on the bottom 1/2. Haven't had a problem on the top 1/2. Last time it happened we towed it back to the trailer where it was flat and it started no problem. Put some more fuel in the tank and ran a couple heats in a hillcross race after that without further issue.

I actually tipped mine up on the right side to make it run in Cooke. Anther time up there it wouldn't start on a low fuel tank unless the front end was pointed uphill. Changed the smart valves after that and thought the problem was solved...guess not. Until 2 years ago I used to be able to run the tank empty and it didn't miss a beat until all the fuel was gone. Then issues like this show up and it makes it darn frustrating.