09 Dragon 800 163 not right

[PowderMiner]

My sled is acting like it has only 50-70% power to the track. It still ran really good just 4 rides ago. I notice this on hill pulls or really deep snow. It seems like it revs up but the clutching seems “rubber-bandy”. I have SLP pipe, and Clutching very similar to Aksnowriders set-up in the sticky post. The clutch work has about 2000 miles on it so… it might be time for a rebuild. I have over 3600 miles and 2000+ since update so am concerned that I might be on the verge of catastrophic failure.

Update so you don't have to read the whole thread...

The Problem was the 70-80 psi in each cylinder. Dealer replaced them with stock pistons since they were not scored and cylinders looked clean.

First ride back and it pulls strong had good rips through deep sticky snow and had to pull a sled out. No problems.

 

[SaskRMK]

To start off do a compression test to find out if your top end is on its way out.

 

[rmkboxer]

what weights are you running and where were you riding?

 

[PowderMiner]

"what weights are you running and where were you riding?"

I am using 10-68's and was in Central WA at 5400' with 3 feet of fresh powder slowly turning to mashed potatoes. This is the same set-up i've ran for 2 seasons and usually strong. it just felt like i was riding a 500cc with a 163 track. It seemed to run fine until it was loaded up in the deep stuff. My dad thinks the 50-70% is an exageration so i'll adjust to 80% (a 600) with real poor track speed recovery.

 

[EricW]

Take a felt pen or magic marker and draw a line from the hub of your primary to the top of the sheeve. You can do this on the secondary as well. On your next ride the the belt will wear away the marker on the portion of the sheeve that it is traveling or working in. If you see a lot of the line showing at the top of the sheeve then you are probably not getting full primary engagement and its time to start looking at clutch components.

Do you know if you have any delrin washers in your secondary to help with spring bind? Might be something to consider. Have you noted what the max RPM and track speed is on your pulls. You should be getting and holding 8100 - 8300 RPM and 40 or better MPH on track speed.

You can also compare the same performance numbers between trail and hill pull to learn some issues too. i.e. it will pull the R's on the trail but not hold them in the steep hill. Any chance snow or water is getting into your clutch compartment causing slippage?

If all your drive things are good(clutching, gearing, belt, track tension/clearance, shaft bearings) then you can look at the motor culprits like power valves/bellows/springs, fuel filter, bad gas, spark plugs/color, indicators of fuel/air mix, stuff like that.

Are ya all stock or do you have a fuel controller?

Hope ya get it figured. EW

 

[Eli]

Get a lift kit! (The Fix). QUICK....

 

[PowderMiner]

I have the two delrin set-up like AK had posted.

Previously to this it would hit 8450 on the trail below 3500' and ~5000' hold 8100-8300 and get between upper 40s - mid 50s track speed depending on snow conditions on a long pull medium steep hill no jumps...

I didn't really pay a lot of attention as it was obvious that something is not working right but it will preform on the trail, did seem as if it was down ~300 rpm though, too tired to test on the trail out and snow was so good that witha 600-like power i had no time to think about diagnostics, whitch is a streach for me anyway.

The feel of a loss or not achieving full power or clutch shift out or full pull from the track was occuring only in the deep. i could track poach to recover or sidehill to regain track speed. It felt ok on the trail ride home, but did notice as we got below 3000 feet that it wouldn't just instantly go to 8450, more like 8000-8150.

I switched to 66 weigts for the trip to West Yellowstone and then back to the 68s here and cleaned them with a little break clean and noticed that the non-metalic bushing in the weigts was a little gummy. Also adjusted the track then too, was a little loose and put it at 1/2" @ the 16" with a gallon of stain as my weight (a little less than 10 lbs ~8?)

I am going to take it in to the shop on Tuesday morning and let them take the clutch apart and other diagnostics. i went out tonight to look it over after the snow melted off and the track is starting to wear, cracks and string showing, so i might need to do more to it than just limp through the last couple of months here.

 

[PowderMiner]

"Get a lift kit! (The Fix). QUICK.... "

Yea, The Fix, Camo Extreme, rebuilt clutch, and Fox all around! But no Pro next year, decisions decisions!

 

[rmkboxer]

My sled is acting like it has only 50-70% power to the track. It still ran really good just 4 rides ago. I notice this on hill pulls or really deep snow. It seems like it revs up but the clutching seems “rubber-bandy”. I have SLP pipe, and Clutching very similar to Aksnowriders set-up in the sticky post. The clutch work has about 2000 miles on it so… it might be time for a rebuild. I have over 3600 miles and 2000+ since update so am concerned that I might be on the verge of catastrophic failure.

mine did the same thing in mccall, it would pull then when it shifted out it would drop to 6500. runs great at home or not in deep powder there. I have to big of weights in mine for the elevation and it looks like you do to.

 

[markoo]

With 2000 miles on your clutches they probably need a good cleaning and new springs.

 

[Eli]

Don't forget the 2000 miles on the pistons with impending doom....

My friends sled wouldn't hold r's just like the clutches were wore out and dirty. A shortblock later with a "lift kit" and it's 8150 all day long....same clutches no cleaning. SLP advised him that whenever a sled is not holding r's, it is quite often in need of pistons.

Oh yeah, I have the camo extreme, fox shocks, new clutches (even a turbo)....all moot when the engine implodes. PISTONS


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[PowderMiner]

My clutch has been flawless and was very well set-up, Skagit Valley Polaris did it and they know exactly where I ride, weight (fat basted), and the way I ride. It is a set-up with a lot of local testing and proven results. The set-up is very similar to AKsnowrider’s detailed in the “Increasing your IQ” sticky thread, “question for those who clutched their D8” post. Those who ride with me know it is a capable sled and I am the limiting factor that is why I think something has broke or wore out. (besides me)

I am taking it to them in the morning to see what it is and I’ll ask them to look at the engine. It looks like I have been very lucky to have a D8 that has lasted, so-far (3600+), minus ECU and VR. I really like this sled and its performance when right.

I will post the results, even if it is a bad belt or I put a weight in backwards or something…

Just hoping for the simplest (<$) of fixes to get through the rest of the promising spring season.

 

[modjunkie]

Don't forget the 2000 miles on the pistons with impending doom....

My friends sled wouldn't hold r's just like the clutches were wore out and dirty. A shortblock later with a "lift kit" and it's 8150 all day long....same clutches no cleaning. SLP advised him that whenever a sled is not holding r's, it is quite often in need of pistons.

Oh yeah, I have the camo extreme, fox shocks, new clutches (even a turbo)....all moot when the engine implodes. PISTONS


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What he said. My sled did the same thing wouldn't hold r's, poach a track and get the r's back fine until you hit the deep. I did everything, clutching, fuel filter, exhaust valves, nothing worked until i pulled the top end. Now the sled pulls awesome. It just happened one day and then got a little worse every ride out. Don't trust a compression test it is usually the bottom ring that has gone and they will test fine but won't hold compression on a long pull. Call the boys at Pms and order the fix. Worth every penny, my sled has never pulled better. I bet if you pull the top end off you will see where it has been pushing past the bottom ring, my pistons were brown almost the whole length.

 

[rmkboxer]

now you guys have me thinking, the weird thing is at a lower elevation mine will hold the rpm

 

[Eli]

now you guys have me thinking, the weird thing is at a lower elevation mine will hold the rpm

Maybe your sled is PMS'ing and it needs the Fix? At lower elevations it will make more power to hold r's. It's being temperamental on you....PMS'ing!


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[rmkboxer]

I know I had to big of weights for mccall, I am still running at 2500-6000 and it runs fine. but at 6 and up the rpms drop when it shifts out. I may do the pms kit but I have not had any issues. I am not convinced it is a compression issue but I am not rulling it out either

 

[Eli]

From what it sounds like, with enough miles they will most likely implode. Why not do it now, have a better running sled, and save mucho dinero?

 

[PowderMiner]

Just got the diagnosis.

Cylinders 70-80 psi. Cylinders and pistons surprisingly not scored, tops were worn out? I'll check if i got that right, doesn’t make sense, and probably my misunderstanding.

This engine seems to have held-up well with stock pistons.
Was I lucky?
Did I get a good set of pistons?
Are my cylinders perfectly shaped?
Am I the best at warming my engine and running good oil?
Don’t know?

SO with that need to make decision…

· OEM pistons in stock and ready to install. They lasted 2000 miles before…
· “The Fix” is at least 2 weeks out and more expensive.

· “The Fix” gives more horsepower?
· “Will I spend the rest of the year tuning “The Fix”?

· Will the Fix work with a Power Comander V?
· Will the combination work with a aftermarket head?
· What head and Flash to use with “the Fix”?

I have a SLP pipe and think I’d like more power, but I have been riding with flat pistons so new ones will be nice.

 

[raptobob]

What do you mean that the tops of the pistons were wore out. The top "dome" of the piston should never change. If it's eroded away it's been lean.

 

[PowderMiner]

I’ll try and get clarification I probably didn’t understand what was said. Bottom line is pistons are worn and didn't look scored on the sides, nor the cylinders.