09 800 No oil to Mag side only - Anyone seen this issue

[skibreeze]

Ok, so I was rereading some of this and thinking about the oil caps. I can believe that the caps are causing the bubbles in the oil lines, but why is it that it is primarily the CFI's that are going down? My 07 600 carb has the same oil tank and cap and no issues burning down.

 

[rmkboxer]

its the same oil cap that they have used for years. not whole lot of them failing. I did talk to a guy today and he said the brass fitting on the pto side of his had come out of his cases. something to look at

 

[PMSPOLARIS]

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www.pmspolaris.com can install for right around $300 or you can have your local Polaris dealer or local shop install it. Thanks for the interest in it. I can answer any more questions if you need.
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We have been running these kits since last winter and have done teardown evaluations which we take the pistons out to inspect and they look great. It has been crazy how fast these kits are going out the door, and we are building them as fast as possible to keep up with demand, Let us know and we will get you on the list. This is a long term solution to the durability issues Polaris 800 engines are experiencing. Everyone that has put one in and rode with it has commented on the snap the motor has in the midrange and how much quieter the engine seems. It makes the engine seem like it wants to pull harder and longer than it did before. Hope this helps and look forward to talking to you.

 

[skibreeze]

Is it just me, or does it bug the crap you when vendors have to put their ads in every thread?

PMS, I like what you have done with your kit, but to jump in every burn down thread and claim that this is the fix for everything that ails the 800...... I don't buy it.

I'd even put money on it. I'd bet you $1,000 that your kit would still burn down on my stock 800 with nothing but an slp intake and pipe/can before it hit 1,000 miles.

 

[diamonddave]

its the same oil cap that they have used for years. not whole lot of them failing. I did talk to a guy today and he said the brass fitting on the pto side of his had come out of his cases. something to look at

You are Assuming it's the same cap. We don't know if there was a vendor change or design change. Plus, the Edges didn't have the cap sitting at a 30 degree angle with a closed off vent as the sled sits at 0 degrees of attitude onn flat, level ground.


It's just like the ration of Pro's and to some extent Dragons breaking the snout's on the P-85 over the last 2 years....never saw that problem before. Polaris swears nothing changed. Why now? Is there a cutting die worn out?


As for Ski's question regarding 07 600's....How many 07 600's or ALL 600's are there for that matter out there in comparison to 800 CFI's?

 

[diamonddave]

I'm pretty sure that your math is incorrect.

Please enlighten me then...2 stroke injectors fire twice as often as a 4 stroke injector.

 

[rmkboxer]

You are Assuming it's the same cap. We don't know if there was a vendor change or design change. Plus, the Edges didn't have the cap sitting at a 30 degree angle with a closed off vent as the sled sits at 0 degrees of attitude onn flat, level ground.


It's just like the ration of Pro's and to some extent Dragons breaking the snout's on the P-85 over the last 2 years....never saw that problem before. Polaris swears nothing changed. Why now? Is there a cutting die worn out?


As for Ski's question regarding 07 600's....How many 07 600's or ALL 600's are there for that matter out there in comparison to 800 CFI's?

ya your probably right

 

[skibreeze]

Please enlighten me then...2 stroke injectors fire twice as often as a 4 stroke injector.

That is true, but at 8,000 rpm a 4 stroke injector fires 2,000 times a minute and a 2 stroke injector fires 4,000 times per minute, not the 16,000 you mentioned.

 

[diamonddave]

That is true, but at 8,000 rpm a 4 stroke injector fires 2,000 times a minute and a 2 stroke injector fires 4,000 times per minute, not the 16,000 you mentioned.

Sorry ...you are correct, my math was incorrect.

 

[Adobe-Al]

Is it just me, or does it bug the crap you when vendors have to put their ads in every thread?

PMS, I like what you have done with your kit, but to jump in every burn down thread and claim that this is the fix for everything that ails the 800...... I don't buy it.

I'd even put money on it. I'd bet you $1,000 that your kit would still burn down on my stock 800 with nothing but an slp intake and pipe/can before it hit 1,000 miles.

WOW! Kinda sounds like you don't want to give up on your Dragon yet!!
By the way I have not heard of a lot of crank failures on these D8- do you think you might of stressed your crank with all of your topend failures? I always worry about debris getting into crank bearings. Could also be that none of D8 stayed running long enough to fail the crank I hope they take you up on your bet. I might want some of that action too. My track record on blowing up sleds is pretty good!

 

[skibreeze]

WOW! Kinda sounds like you don't want to give up on your Dragon yet!!
By the way I have not heard of a lot of crank failures on these D8- do you think you might of stressed your crank with all of your topend failures? I always worry about debris getting into crank bearings. Could also be that none of D8 stayed running long enough to fail the crank I hope they take you up on your bet. I might want some of that action too. My track record on blowing up sleds is pretty good!

I would love to believe that I can fix it. The PCV got me by far the most miles on a set of pistons and they are still good. IMO, the other failures had nothing to do with the crank bending. IMO, the clutch bolt probably came loose first, and when it hit the side panels, it bent the crank.

I bought a new Doo, it will force me to ditch the Polaris and move on.

 

[EricW]

UPDATE:

On the above sled I used a vaccum gun to check out the oiler tappets in the case and they were functioning. Did the ohm test per manual on the injectors and the resistance checked out. Did not pull or bench test the injectors. In doing the other work I noticed that the oil pump linkage arm was not on mark as it should be. I was lean by quite a bit. At full throttle position it was actuated maybe a little more than half throttle position. I know this has been this way since day one. I have never set or checked that for some reason (kicking myself now). It still had the factory loc-tite on it when I set it correctly.

I forced oil through the oil pump supply and the 5 lines to the motor to be sure there was no air. I bled out the bubble at the filter and put the motor back together with a fresh cylinder and top end.

Took it on a test run yesterday with 50:1 premix in the tank as well as the injection functioning. Topped off and indexed the oil and fuel tanks so I could measure usage. The sled ran great and broke in well with good plug color and piston wash that was bordered by excessive oil stain.

At the end of the test I burned 5 gallons of gas and 16 oz of oil from the tank. That gives me 40:1 if my math is correct. Pulled the plugs and power valves and put the scope in to look things over. The pistons and skirts looked great. Everything looked normal to me considering the extra oil.

I have to wonder if I have had a combination of symptoms going on from the oil bubble at the filter to the pump being out of spec. I will be watching this sled and the oil lines like a hawk to see what if anything changes.

Does the 40:1 ratio sound right. The setting I used on the arm was with the throttle cable slack taken out (by pushing the throttle flipper lightly) then adjusted to line up the arm tit with the pump casting index line. Doing that gave me 40:1.

Gonna run it some more tomorrow and I'll update as parts fly out the hood. lol. EW

 

[rocket]

Getting yourself into the 40-50:1 range should be ok. Some of the 800s were adjusted pretty light on oil from the factory - I only ran my 800 a few hundred miles before deciding the pump should be re-adjusted to add more oil. I've been about 1qt per tank of fuel on average.

 

[EricW]

Sled ran hard all day. Put up some big lines and never missed a beat until the trail ride out. Fouled the pipe sensor, getting the 5 flash code. Maybe running double oil wasn't too good for it. I'll slap on another tomorrow and hit it again.

Today was one of those days you only get a few of a year. Deep pow, blue bird day, and only a few other tracks all day. The West Kootneys were epic. Some long pulls grinding hard the whole way. No issues, knock on wood. Hope this was an isolated thing. Thanks all for all the input. EW

 

[diamonddave]

Eric I run 32 to 1 plus I run 3/4 oz per gallon oil in my tank and have never had an exhaust temp sensor code. Check your oil caps

 

[EricW]

Eric I run 32 to 1 plus I run 3/4 oz per gallon oil in my tank and have never had an exhaust temp sensor code. Check your oil caps

Dave, are you saying oil cap as a separate issue to the temp sensor or are they some how related.

I have been thinking on this oil cap issue. Seems the design is that the cap is supposed to vent until you flop, then the vent valve closes to prevent leakage. Is this right?

If it is, why dont we disable the OEM check valve then drill and tap a vent hose into the top of the cap. The hose could route up to the handlebar post area under the cowling for protection from water, snow, crud and then into a pill/asprin sized bottle.

If your eled were upside down for any length of time the leaking oil would run into the bottle, then when upright it would run back to tank. If the bottle had a small vent hole strategically placed you could still loose a little oil but thats way better than loosing a motor.

I would rather drill a 1/4" hole in the cap and clean up the leak than loose a motor to a .50 cent cap if thats the cause.

Boondockers has an oil overflow system then runs to a remote tank then drains back to tank on their turbo oil systems and it seems to work great. Gotta be a way. EW

 

[HUNDO]

Not in these sleds. However, I just go ahead and pull a motor on a CFI 4 when dooing top end work anyway. They're pretty easy and I've heard about "bent" injector tips.

I should've also agreed with you guys earlier, I'd definately be having the injectors cleaned and flow tested. We ran into this with the SDI Doo's frequently which is identical to this CFI arrangement. 2 stroke injectors fire twice as often as a 4 stroke so at 8,000 R's the Polaris CFI's are firing 16,000 R's.

Speaking of injector service, what makes are having issues....

That is true, but at 8,000 rpm a 4 stroke injector fires 2,000 times a minute and a 2 stroke injector fires 4,000 times per minute, not the 16,000 you mentioned.

A 4 stroke fires once every two revolutions. A 2 stroke fires every revolution. Therefore at 8000 revolutions per minute, a 4 stroke injector would fire 4000 times and a 2 stroke injector would fire 8000 times.

 

[willys48]

Lost the engine on my 08 700 a couple of weeks ago. got 75 miles on last mag side piston. it looked the same as in your pictures. pulled motor and checked everything seals and throttle body boots but nothing. dumped oil from tank and checked with vacum and it would hold 10 inches vacum. you could shake the tank and the cap would rattle but still held vacum. put new cap on and it would still pull just under 5 inches so I bought a 1/8" 90 degree elbow for a 96 ultra and taped into the top of oil tank behind cap. No vacum now so I will run a vent line to the bars now. also my lower crank case was leaking black stuff from the weep hole behind water pump. Having new water pump seal and oil pump seal replaced and the impeller was a little rough so it will be replaced also. Hope this works. The way out lately has been tied to a skidoo kind of hurts the old ego

 

[diamonddave]

I have been thinking on this oil cap issue. Seems the design is that the cap is supposed to vent until you flop, then the vent valve closes to prevent leakage. Is this right?

Correct. Problem is they should, (at least the 10 now that I have checked) not be closed at such a low change in attitude. It would be nice if they would close at closer to 50-60 degrees relative to 0,0 .

Dave, are you saying oil cap as a separate issue to the temp sensor or are they some how related.

Eric,

My point was that running my sled with a higher oil to fuel ratio so far, has not resulted in any exhaust temp sensor problems. I think some feel that a higher oil to fuel ratio will cause the exhaust temp sensor to fail prematurely. Kind of like what happens to Lambda sensors in 2 strokes. However, Polaris exhaust temp sensors are different than Lambda's. In fact, they are nothing more than a pyro sensor.