Alpha Ice Scratchers - FYI!!!

[Chewy22]

Just a heads up if you have an older set of spare Alpha scratchers. AC narrowed the scratcher coil and bushing on the 858s. In the photo - left is the old style from a 19 Alpha and the right is the 858. The 858 bushing is too short for the older style scratcher. I made reversible scratchers out of the spare set I had laying around for my 19 Alpha; had to order the older/longer bushing so I can install them on the 858. I run this style of reversible scratcher on my twin rail ascender and they work great. I’m hoping they will work just as well on the 858.

 

[boondocker97]

Saving those ounces where they could!

 

[NHRoadking]

Saving those ounces where they could!

More like pennies.

 

[Chewy22]

More like pennies.

Probably the bigger factor, as it's more dollars then pennies.

Significant price difference between the two bushings:

2019 - $11.10 per
2025 - $4.92 per

The 2025 scratchers are a bit cheaper too $21.89/$21.33 vs $22.26

What is really interesting on the 2025 scratchers the right is $21.89 and the left is $21.33; both are $22.26 for the 2019s.

When I receive the 2019 bushings, I will post a side by side picture. I'll even show the weight difference between the two just for fun.

*Country Cat OEM parts prices

FYI - I did try installing the 2019 scratcher with the 2025 bushing. They go on, but it binds the coil up and won't work great. Also I did not check to see if the bushing is new for 2025 or they changed sometime after 2019. But if you have a spare set of alpha scratchers from the Ascender chassis it would be good looking into that.

 

[tenacious84]

Probably the bigger factor, as it's more dollars then pennies.

Significant price difference between the two bushings:

2019 - $11.10 per
2025 - $4.92 per

The 2025 scratchers are a bit cheaper too $21.89/$21.33 vs $22.26

What is really interesting on the 2025 scratchers the right is $21.89 and the left is $21.33; both are $22.26 for the 2019s.

When I receive the 2019 bushings, I will post a side by side picture. I'll even show the weight difference between the two just for fun.

*Country Cat OEM parts prices

FYI - I did try installing the 2019 scratcher with the 2025 bushing. They go on, but it binds the coil up and won't work great. Also I did not check to see if the bushing is new for 2025 or they changed sometime after 2019. But if you have a spare set of alpha scratchers from the Ascender chassis it would be good looking into that.

I think the pricing difference has more to do with economy of scale and one part currently being in production use versus the other part no longer being used in standard production. If you look at other parts that are new, the current model year is typically cheaper than stuff that was used older sleds. FYI, see long block engine prices

2025 858 long block is $2,600
'20-'24 800 long block is $3,300
'18-'19 800 long block is $4,166
*Country Cat OEM parts prices

 

[rkm]

The Catalyst scratchers also have more "preload" to them and can be used on a Ascender for better cooling.

 

[Chewy22]

The Catalyst scratchers also have more "preload" to them and can be used on a Ascender for better cooling.

Well damn, would have been nice to now that. I would have modified the Catalyst scratchers instead. I've jumped too far down the rabbit hole now, just have to see how the Ascender style work with the reversible tip. The tip is longer so should have a bit more tension......

 

[Turboskickbutt]

Just a heads up if you have an older set of spare Alpha scratchers. AC narrowed the scratcher coil and bushing on the 858s. In the photo - left is the old style from a 19 Alpha and the right is the 858. The 858 bushing is too short for the older style scratcher. I made reversible scratchers out of the spare set I had laying around for my 19 Alpha; had to order the older/longer bushing so I can install them on the 858. I run this style of reversible scratcher on my twin rail ascender and they work great. I’m hoping they will work just as well on the 858.
View attachment 427097View attachment 427098

Where did you get those reversing tabs from?

 

[Chewy22]

Where did you get those reversing tabs from?

I ordered them from Country Cat along with a number of other things. But there is a number of places that sell them.

Search - OTTP Ice Storm Ice Scratchers Replacement Tip

 

[Chewy22]

Just a quick update. I modified the catalyst scratchers. Damn did they harden these more compared to the original ascender scratcher. I tried a number of different drill bits and nothing was punching through it. Maybe could have got the job done with a drill press but don’t have one. So trying a 1/4” shaft collar with a set screw. Filed a flat spot for the set screw to recess in and used red loctite. I think it should work, we will see.

 

[MTN_VIPER]

Nice job Chewy22

Kind of curious to see how they fit when installed on the sled. Also wondering if they will kick up more snow/ice for improved cooling on hard pack at slower speeds.

 

[Chewy22]

Will test these on Friday.

This style worked awesome on my twin rail ascender. Kick up a lot more than the standard scratchers, sled ran cooler. Plus reversible.

 

[MTN_VIPER]

Cool, I assume that you just put a 90 degree twist on the standard Catalyst scratcher, so that the "tang" sits horizontal to the snow? (instead of pointing straight down)

 

[Chewy22]

Cool, I assume that you just put a 90 degree twist on the standard Catalyst scratcher, so that the "tang" sits horizontal to the snow? (instead of pointing straight down)

That is what I did. Used a cutting torch. The first set, from the 19 alpha, I heated and bent the 90 degree elbow. The catalyst set I heated the shaft right above the elbow. Much cleaner and nicer looking on the catalyst set. Twisted easer too. Used satin black spray paint to clean it up; see how well that holds up....LOL!!!

With the paint on the shaft, I had to use a hammer to get the collars on which I think is better. I don't think the set screws will come loose with all the red loctite, but scratchers take a beating so we will see.

 

[bnorth]

What about adding a tack weld below the collar? I realize it is spring steel but you have already heated and bent it.

 

[Chewy22]

What about adding a tack weld below the collar? I realize it is spring steel but you have already heated and bent it.

I like the way you are thinking. I know that would work great also and is my plan B if the loctite does not hold.

 

[MTN_VIPER]

I'm going to give this a try, so I ordered a set of OTTP tips and an extra set of Catalyst scratchers just in case I screw one up! My main goal is not so much to have them be reversable, but to increase the amount of snow kicked up by the scratchers for improved cooling.
We do a fair amount of slow tree riding to get to the play areas and it's not always possible to get off into deeper snow or go faster to cool the sled. Sometimes it can be a challenge to keep them cool under these conditions.

Here's a pretty good article on re-tempering spring steel. https://needmetals.com/heat-treating-spring-steel/

 

[Chewy22]

We do a fair amount of slow tree riding to get to the play areas and it's not always possible to get off into deeper snow or go faster to cool the sled. Sometimes it can be a challenge to keep them cool under these conditions.

Here's a pretty good article on re-tempering spring steel. https://needmetals.com/heat-treating-spring-steel/

This is the scenario I’m most concerned about, especial long uphill sections where it’s even harder getting the snow to the coolers. You see it even running the trails.

I poached these pics off Fakebook. But it shows how the Doo quick release flap attaches. I hate the idea of packing a flap but in certain situations it might be needed.

Thanks for posting the article.

 

[MTN_VIPER]

Thanks for the pics, a removable snow flap was going to be my next step if the scratcher mod doesn't help. Looking at the sled, I was tossing around different ideas on how to make a removable snow flap work. Due to the short tunnel, it definitely makes it a bit more challenging for sure.
I have the Cat Mountain pack on my sled, and I think that the flap would fit in it for those times when it's off the sled.

I only have one ride in, and she was getting pretty hot on the narrow-packed trails in. Not trying to make it a trail sled after all it's a mountain sled designed for deep snow. Mainly just looking to improve the cooling in less-than-ideal conditions so that I'm not holding up the group.

 

[Vern]

So do these sleds run hotter than a proclimb/ascender? I haven’t ran a snow flap on any of my proclimb/ascender sleds and never had an issue with heat running the stock scratchers unless it was rock hard frozen to where any sled would have issues.