2000 - 2005 Polaris 800 Crank Problems explained.
Ok, I have pounded around in my head........ Explaining Findings on the 2000/2005 800 Polaris Crank Problems for ALONG time.
My First thought was.......DON'T even think about it, Its just not worth it.
This Thread has changed my mind.
Let me give you all a fast and simple overview of why the 800 suffered far more then the 700.
I have said this before on the internet -
ONE HUGE REASON !!!! When Polaris lengthened the Stroke they Made the Lower Connecting Rod Pin smaller, plain and simple lost much needed support on the O.D. of the Rod Pin. Where as the 700 had a much bigger Rod Pin it could with stand more quality control problems then the 800
I believe Polaris Read what I said, and I am the ONLY one to ever say it.
**NOTE** The New Polaris 800 motor has a much bigger Lower Connecting Rod Pin. Search the internet high and low ( Has anyone ever told you this....... )
The small Connecting Rod Pin is why the Lock ring Bearing is so important on all 2000-2005 800 Big Block Motors.
Theres ( 2 )...... Million dollar questions.
#1 - Is the Wide Bearing Upgrade worth it ????????
Answer - ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!
#2 - Has the 2000 - 2005 800 Crank Problems been solved to a degree as good or better then any other 800 Twin built to date ???
Answer - ABSOLUTELY YES!!!!!!
Think about this folks.......Over the past years, Year 2000 to 2006/2007... To my knowing there was no reports of an 800 Crank That Indy Specialty Built having any PTO-End Related failure.
Then in 2008 a few cranks that had been sold with, the only 3 year warranty in the business had a few PTO-end failures...........
Now that being said...............Why in the world do you think that happened ???? And if in fact it did happen why would a shop that had a 3 year warranty........Why would they change to a 5 year Warranty ???
I will tell you why -
( 2 ) reasons-
#1 - I tested and found out that the Double Row Bearing is a bad idea and IF all things are perfect it will NOT last under extreme conditions ( If ALL things are not perfect - Meaning the case or the crank are just a touch out of spec the wide bearing can last a very long time. The truth of the matter is this.......If the crankcase fit is exactly what it should be given countless tests, and the crankshaft PTO O.D. is exactly what it should be.........That means ( 2 ) things happen
#2 - With PTO-end interference fit you swell the inner race, With Proper Crankcase fit you actually crush the outter Race of the bearing.......Now that being said, with these two factors in mind ( Mind you... For the most part a bearing is not designed to be expanded and contracted at the same time behond a reasonable amount ) What happens ........Is the clearance built into the bearing between the inner and outter race where the balls are has been reduced to almost ZERO........Now that into consideration, The factory
had ( 2 ) Narrow bearings with a WIDE gap ( spacer ) between them ( And only ( 2 ) rows of ball bearings ).
NOW- Imagin the wide bearing is installed........
Again ( 2 ) things happen -
#1 - You have filled the entire space with bearing other then ( 1) little tiny .060 Thousand spacer.
#2 - You now have ( 3 ) Rows of ball bearings.
Guess what happens............You build mass amounts of heat, It can change the temper of the metal........It also leads to premature crank seal leakage, and premature crank failure.
From 2000 till sometime in 2007 I didn't use the Wide Bearing...........Then all the BUZZ was the wide bearing Upgrade EVERYONE Had to have it. ( You couldn't sell a 800 crank without it )
So I started including it at some point..........Don't misunderstand me here........Just because it sometimes works does NOT mean it is correct. Its just luck. The Wide Bearing Upgrade is a BAD Idea for everyday use in a perfect assembled motor.
If you had and woren PTO-end..............................................
Or Poor Crankcase Fit...........................................................
Or the crankcase was assembled with to much Crankcase sealer...
That being said - You could actually get by with the Wide bearing.
BUT if you had what we call a perfect crank by Polaris in the Middle of high and low measurements, And a Crankcase that was in the middle of the high and low measurements and you had the perfect amount of case sealer ( Less is better ) The cases are suppose to get to a Metal to Metal fit.
All that being said..........If your parts are close to perfect and you install
the Wide Bearing your motor will NOT last as long as it would have with the Factory Polaris OEM PTO-Bearing set-up.
WHEW!!!!!!! I realize I am jumping around a little bit here -
Back to why I went from a 3 year warranty to a 5 Year warranty.
Simple !!!!!!!! I figured out the damage the Wide Bearing was causing and I addressed it..........I went to a different PTO-Bearing configuration that runs cooler and I redesigned the PTO-end Completely.
My New 800 Torque Master III Has the same design as The 900 Torque Master III ( And there has never been a Broken Indy Specailty 800/900 Torque Master III PTO-End. )
The weak link of the OEM PTO-End, Is the fact that the Bolt hole that is drilled to hold the drive clutch on is to BIG and to deep for the O.D. of the end itself.
So the Fact is this.........The 800 Torque Master III has corrected all the problems to a degree above and behond that of any other 800 Built to date.
The 800 Torque Master III is 1mm Bigger then the new Dragon 800, And the hole bored thru the crankshaft is much smaller and the threads are located right under the clutch taper where they belong........NOT under the bearings where it can swell the shaft and cause heat.
I know what a few of you are thinking..........
Your saying to yourself..........Well if the wide bearing takes up all the space and builds to much heat why would Polaris put ( 1 ) super wide bearing in the new Dragon.......
The reason it works is this............It may look like a MONSTER bearing.
Its just a super wide inner and outter race with just ( 2 ) rows of ball bearings just like the OLD Big Block ( I.E. ) Less heat is created by less rotating mass.
The benifit to the ( 1 ) super wide bearing is that its a little easier on the crankcase simply because it covers more area. ( Not needed ) If the crank stays straight the case will not wear.
Thats as short as I can keep it and still hopefully get the point across.
The Bottem-line. The 800 Torque Master III Has solved all the problems and it has the warranty to back it. The 800 Big Block is one of the best 800 motors Built to date when its all done correctly.
I hope this shows light into a very misunderstood Motor.
Dan
.I have seen 800 VES motors go 5000 miles no issues I have seen them go 500 and lose the crank. What's up ?
I heard the Cases caused it, I heard certain RMP range causes it to eat the case, which makes the crank fail.
I have and 02 / 800 VES and an 02 / 700 VES. The 7's don't seem to suffer.
Ok, I have pounded around in my head........ Explaining Findings on the 2000/2005 800 Polaris Crank Problems for ALONG time.
My First thought was.......DON'T even think about it, Its just not worth it.
This Thread has changed my mind.
Let me give you all a fast and simple overview of why the 800 suffered far more then the 700.
I have said this before on the internet -
ONE HUGE REASON !!!! When Polaris lengthened the Stroke they Made the Lower Connecting Rod Pin smaller, plain and simple lost much needed support on the O.D. of the Rod Pin. Where as the 700 had a much bigger Rod Pin it could with stand more quality control problems then the 800
I believe Polaris Read what I said, and I am the ONLY one to ever say it.
**NOTE** The New Polaris 800 motor has a much bigger Lower Connecting Rod Pin. Search the internet high and low ( Has anyone ever told you this....... )
The small Connecting Rod Pin is why the Lock ring Bearing is so important on all 2000-2005 800 Big Block Motors.
Theres ( 2 )...... Million dollar questions.
#1 - Is the Wide Bearing Upgrade worth it ????????
Answer - ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!
#2 - Has the 2000 - 2005 800 Crank Problems been solved to a degree as good or better then any other 800 Twin built to date ???
Answer - ABSOLUTELY YES!!!!!!
Think about this folks.......Over the past years, Year 2000 to 2006/2007... To my knowing there was no reports of an 800 Crank That Indy Specialty Built having any PTO-End Related failure.
Then in 2008 a few cranks that had been sold with, the only 3 year warranty in the business had a few PTO-end failures...........
Now that being said...............Why in the world do you think that happened ???? And if in fact it did happen why would a shop that had a 3 year warranty........Why would they change to a 5 year Warranty ???
I will tell you why -
( 2 ) reasons-
#1 - I tested and found out that the Double Row Bearing is a bad idea and IF all things are perfect it will NOT last under extreme conditions ( If ALL things are not perfect - Meaning the case or the crank are just a touch out of spec the wide bearing can last a very long time. The truth of the matter is this.......If the crankcase fit is exactly what it should be given countless tests, and the crankshaft PTO O.D. is exactly what it should be.........That means ( 2 ) things happen
#2 - With PTO-end interference fit you swell the inner race, With Proper Crankcase fit you actually crush the outter Race of the bearing.......Now that being said, with these two factors in mind ( Mind you... For the most part a bearing is not designed to be expanded and contracted at the same time behond a reasonable amount ) What happens ........Is the clearance built into the bearing between the inner and outter race where the balls are has been reduced to almost ZERO........Now that into consideration, The factory
had ( 2 ) Narrow bearings with a WIDE gap ( spacer ) between them ( And only ( 2 ) rows of ball bearings ).
NOW- Imagin the wide bearing is installed........
Again ( 2 ) things happen -
#1 - You have filled the entire space with bearing other then ( 1) little tiny .060 Thousand spacer.
#2 - You now have ( 3 ) Rows of ball bearings.
Guess what happens............You build mass amounts of heat, It can change the temper of the metal........It also leads to premature crank seal leakage, and premature crank failure.
From 2000 till sometime in 2007 I didn't use the Wide Bearing...........Then all the BUZZ was the wide bearing Upgrade EVERYONE Had to have it. ( You couldn't sell a 800 crank without it )
So I started including it at some point..........Don't misunderstand me here........Just because it sometimes works does NOT mean it is correct. Its just luck. The Wide Bearing Upgrade is a BAD Idea for everyday use in a perfect assembled motor.
If you had and woren PTO-end..............................................
Or Poor Crankcase Fit...........................................................
Or the crankcase was assembled with to much Crankcase sealer...
That being said - You could actually get by with the Wide bearing.
BUT if you had what we call a perfect crank by Polaris in the Middle of high and low measurements, And a Crankcase that was in the middle of the high and low measurements and you had the perfect amount of case sealer ( Less is better ) The cases are suppose to get to a Metal to Metal fit.
All that being said..........If your parts are close to perfect and you install
the Wide Bearing your motor will NOT last as long as it would have with the Factory Polaris OEM PTO-Bearing set-up.
WHEW!!!!!!! I realize I am jumping around a little bit here -
Back to why I went from a 3 year warranty to a 5 Year warranty.
Simple !!!!!!!! I figured out the damage the Wide Bearing was causing and I addressed it..........I went to a different PTO-Bearing configuration that runs cooler and I redesigned the PTO-end Completely.
My New 800 Torque Master III Has the same design as The 900 Torque Master III ( And there has never been a Broken Indy Specailty 800/900 Torque Master III PTO-End. )
The weak link of the OEM PTO-End, Is the fact that the Bolt hole that is drilled to hold the drive clutch on is to BIG and to deep for the O.D. of the end itself.
So the Fact is this.........The 800 Torque Master III has corrected all the problems to a degree above and behond that of any other 800 Built to date.
The 800 Torque Master III is 1mm Bigger then the new Dragon 800, And the hole bored thru the crankshaft is much smaller and the threads are located right under the clutch taper where they belong........NOT under the bearings where it can swell the shaft and cause heat.
I know what a few of you are thinking..........
Your saying to yourself..........Well if the wide bearing takes up all the space and builds to much heat why would Polaris put ( 1 ) super wide bearing in the new Dragon.......
The reason it works is this............It may look like a MONSTER bearing.
Its just a super wide inner and outter race with just ( 2 ) rows of ball bearings just like the OLD Big Block ( I.E. ) Less heat is created by less rotating mass.
The benifit to the ( 1 ) super wide bearing is that its a little easier on the crankcase simply because it covers more area. ( Not needed ) If the crank stays straight the case will not wear.
Thats as short as I can keep it and still hopefully get the point across.
The Bottem-line. The 800 Torque Master III Has solved all the problems and it has the warranty to back it. The 800 Big Block is one of the best 800 motors Built to date when its all done correctly.
I hope this shows light into a very misunderstood Motor.
Dan
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