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RMSHA Racers Needed!

ndC7M8

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There's a few ski hills in minnesota, and there used to be hillcross at one of them within the last couple years yet I know.....maybe get something going once a year over this direction in minnesota somewhere and you'd get a lot of the dakotas, iowa and wisconsin riders to get in on it. 12 hours a way from the events otherwise
 
C
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Everyone's complaint seems to be either cost or distance to the races. I'm sure this would be a lot of work to make happen, but what if RMSHA split into a few smaller divisions spread more evenly across the rockies. Then at the end of the season the best from each division meet in Jackson to crown a champion in all the different classes.
 
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snwman77

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Clutch Guards

No need for Clutch Guards in any class anymore. Those guards were ment for sleds that were turning Crazy RPM to make power. Like a Polaris XLT with triple pipes that turned 9,500 RPM and the mod sleds back in the day that had no belly pans of hoods on them.
If a newer Mod sled of today turns low 8,000 RPMs What a waste of time and money to put a clutch guard a piped 800 that turns close to the same Rs as a stocker. If Im wrong Please tell me. I dont know of any new mod kit for a 800cc turns more then 8,300 RPM.
 
T
Jun 27, 2008
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I would love to do some hillclimb and hillcross racing but all the races are so far away. CA/NV/OR/WA/ID I could swing but WY, MT, CO, UT no way.

We have one here at Anthony Lakes ski area(eastern Oregon) every year but I've yet to make it, could be a nice addition to your series since it's already an established and fairly long running event.
 

Keith517

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No need for Clutch Guards in any class anymore. Those guards were ment for sleds that were turning Crazy RPM to make power. Like a Polaris XLT with triple pipes that turned 9,500 RPM and the mod sleds back in the day that had no belly pans of hoods on them.
If a newer Mod sled of today turns low 8,000 RPMs What a waste of time and money to put a clutch guard a piped 800 that turns close to the same Rs as a stocker. If Im wrong Please tell me. I dont know of any new mod kit for a 800cc turns more then 8,300 RPM.

Good point, are all the extra clutch guards really necessary any more? I understand that there may be more to it that just RPM, do we need fully enclosed clutches on mod sled? Back in the day Mod sleds ran without bellypans and hoods, i can see need for fully enclosed clutches if that was still the case.
 
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sykosledhead

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Laramie, WY

I have looked at trying to get one going in the Snowys but haven't had the time to research opinions of local ski hill.

I have tried to run in the past. Cost is huge to just show let alone compete. Keep in mind the top guys have all the bells and whistles. The end result is determined by a lot of luck and skill but having all the choice parts and mechanics to get things running as they should is hard to beat. What you’re asking is for filler for all the big money teams to look down on. A good example is Dennis Durmas. I can remember times when that guy is a complete a$$ toward locals and amateur. Who is going to go through all it takes to deal with his bad attitude. What you’re asking for is a distinct division of riders, those with all the money and those without. In this regard, it won't work.
On the other hand, RIP, Rick Ward was a great competitor and yet would give the shirt off his back to help out.
This sport needs to get away from the ego trip and focus on the group as a whole.

Just my syko sense.

syko
 
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throttlecable

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I have looked at trying to get one going in the Snowys but haven't had the time to research opinions of local ski hill.

I have tried to run in the past. Cost is huge to just show let alone compete. Keep in mind the top guys have all the bells and whistles. The end result is determined by a lot of luck and skill but having all the choice parts and mechanics to get things running as they should is hard to beat. What you’re asking is for filler for all the big money teams to look down on. A good example is Dennis Durmas. I can remember times when that guy is a complete a$$ toward locals and amateur. Who is going to go through all it takes to deal with his bad attitude. What you’re asking for is a distinct division of riders, those with all the money and those without. In this regard, it won't work.
On the other hand, RIP, Rick Ward was a great competitor and yet would give the shirt off his back to help out.
This sport needs to get away from the ego trip and focus on the group as a whole.

Just my syko sense.

syko


Yes, Dennis has earned a reputation among some crowds that reflects your opinions, and there are others just like him who tend to damage RMSHA just as much as they benefit it. Durmas has been retired from racing for 2 years now, but still competes at Jackson each year and claims a fair amount of success in the process. In his defense, he is currently the driving force behind RMSHA expansion in Colorado, and a key figure in laying the groundwork for the new race at PowderHorn Ski Area.

Money and time will always stand in the way of RMSHA growth, but big egos are just a part of racing in general. The majority of our racers are really good people with good attitudes, and sacrafice both time and money for the love of competition. Big ego guys typically have achieved a certain level of success on the track, but most are still down to earth and approachable once you get to know them.

ps -Syko how come you guys (JH hill crew) couldn't svae my sled from wrecking all the way into the catch net? :crutch:
 
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sykosledhead

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Truly

Throttle
As being one of the guys that has caught your sleds, I will say you are right. You for example have been great to work with. I don't want the mass to think even 50% of the riders are ego freaks because it’s not true. I would say less than that in the RMSHA as a whole. But the Dennis types are the loudest and do all no good when they let their true colors out. If Dennis is working to expand, then good to him. When he gets on the hill, I feel the need to punch him in the mouth. I hope in time he will change as so many have with age.

I have had Jackson on my bucket list for some time now and will continue to work and meet that checkmark. I find it hard to believe the average rider can compete with those that run all the latest gadgets.

Here is an example of what I say.
Several years ago, remember the conditions of the 3rd catwalk of Jackson was bare ground and ice. We were helping most riders off this section all day. Along comes the great Brett Rasmussen on his sled and he hit this spot, were thinking he's done, somehow he plays with the throttle and off he goes to win the class. I have studied this situation so many times over the years and I can't decide if it was just Brett being Brett or if it was the Easy-Ryde he had under it. I say both. There aren't many common riders out there that run Easy-Ryde. I can say confidently 90% or more of riders would, givin the chance. But now we are asking guys to spend a crazy amount of money to try and compete with the best toys money can buy. Can an average guy, who can only make one race or two, truly make a run of it?

To me it seems better that some of these teams should branch out and look to pick up more riders, not just the young ones, but guys who can ride.
If given the chance, there are many riders that could compete given the equal levels of toys and opportunity to try.

I need to say one more thing. I hope this next Jackson, we don't have to catch your sled, Throttle. It would be nice to see a blue sled win at the big one. And it couldn’t happen to a nicer guy. Truly. Last year you ran a Yami, no turbo against some fast guys. Either you have a rich grandmother or wife. Either way, you started with a stock toy to find a ride.

Thanks for giving some of us hope.

syko
 

Racer220

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I agree with most everyone that finances/time are the biggest setback for racing right now. The economy won't help that for a while for most people. Stretching out and finding venues in currently fragmented markets I think could be a big boost. Definitely MORE manufacturer support. For me, I would have quit racing if it wasn't for my #1 rule I've followed since my first race.

- You need to have 100% confidence that at the end of the weekend you will have had enough fun to justify the time and effort you put into racing.

Granted, I'll almost guarantee that there will be days when nothing goes right, sled or body parts are messed up, and statistically you were a failure. Well, welcome to racing. What will matter more than anything is whether you decided that this is how you want to progress as a rider and as a representative of the sport. Just like anything else, racing might not be right for you like freeriding is. No problem. But your experience isn't worth any amount of time or money you come up with if you can't look back and say you enjoyed what you did. I don't think any of us race hillclimbs because it is '$worth$' it, we do it because we love the sport and love to compete.

Some good points have been made about how to compete against racers/teams that seemingly have it all. Let me throw a stick in the spokes though. Privateer. Cable knows what I'm talking about. Racing is just as much about the rider as it is having all the parts and great setups. Anything is possible if you put your mind to it. Not always easy, but I would definitely put my 2012 season on the table to prove what I mean. No factory support, no team mates, 100% of the funding came out of my pocket last year. I've worked my tail off since I started racing with one goal in mind. Go over the top of Snow King. It took me 27 races before I finally raced at Jackson, but it all paid off. I went over 2.9 times (missed the last gate went up the 4th catwalk my 1st time lol....) IMHO I think beyond the time/money aspect of it a person has to determine whether or not it's something that will benefit them as a rider. Not quite sure how to market that at the meeting, but it's something to think about.
 
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sykosledhead

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Agreed

First to answer Shane's question. If you long track it, then its not stock. The stock class is designed to be just that, the same thing that the average sled comes out of the box as. Depending on the race and the officials, they may dictate if you can run screws in your track or any other minor change. But as stated, stock is the key.

220
I can say after 5 tours to the war, I know exactly what you speak of. The question isn't whether it’s worth it, but what it would take to get more people to step up. I believe your first point is the current key, the economy. Until those changes, not much hope for any groups to step up.
Second, if it were just saving up some cash and go racing, more folks would have been part of this. As most pros can agree, this is $100,000 +, not the mere $10,000 sled. Big difference. Remember back when you started, because if you look at your sled, it has a maze of support stickers. That’s not unsupported. You might have made an honest run of it, but just the fuel to each race is $1000’s depending on the outfit. Besides, you had either the lottery, rich wife or grandmother that helped get your start. It wasn't you holding a menial job, eating rumen noodles for a year or so and deciding to go racing. Do the math, impossible. The key is (not which form of) you had help whether it was a sum of money you were given or whatever. Not to diss on your wife, grandmother or whomever gave you the start.
I ask, are you speaking to fortunate riders that have a great job to allow them all the add-ons and so they should race with the factory-sponsored or the average guy who is trying to do just as you did? Big difference.
This is also speaking to the above-average guy who has a descent sled to begin with and will throw his little bit of savings at the chance to ride Jackson, not the season. Your aren’t even talking to the below-average guy who is struggling to ride a home-build masterpiece (to them) that can ride.
Even Kirk Williamson, who is famous for doing just that showing up with something different and making it run, had help, a lot of it.

Again, it’s not the ride that is addressed here but the reason why no one is making the attempt at RMSHA. Money and the oppurtunity.

Throttle.
You make a great point about your sled. If you remember the year before, we did catch your sled and we are the guys you expressed your gratitude to afterward. One point you need to remember is the amount of ice and the 20 guys that went down that hill with your sled. I speak this because I was almost to the catch net with it. And here we are, a rider wants to say, not good job for saving any sleds today, but you lost mine. We truly tried and did our best to save all sleds, but failed on yours. It isn’t that we didn’t save yours, it’s we damn near got our a$$es handed to us in the process of trying to save your sled on a very icy hill. If this isn’t what you remember, pull it up on YouTube since I have watched it a hundred times wondering what I should have done different. And I have spoken to Cody (Mr Yamaha at Jackson) no less than 4 times to say we tried.
This resembles the bad attitude the famous Dennis Dumas displays on the hill, the point made earlier. He is wide open, as he should be, getting out of control and finding a hole. And yelling at the hill crew to not touch his sled, he’s got it, try some stupid move and lose it. This is what racing is all about, agreed? Now the part I complain about comes into play. He wants to yell, scream and cuss at the hillcrew for not saving his sled. That is why he has the bad attitude label.
No matter what anyone says, we as hill crew truly bust out butts to save all sleds. You have the competition of going up the hill and we have the competition of saving sleds. We have winners and losers, too. If you think otherwise, come join me and my crew on the 3rd (ask for John). You will get a nice workout. And bring spikes or something for traction, it will probably be needed.
What frosts my cuttookus is when a rider says, risk your neck to save my sled and when you don’t save my sled, I have the right to yell at you for it. Oh’ and who gives a crap about the next 8 sleds/riders, there’re not mine. What right does the rider have to yell at the hillcrew? Let’s refer back to the original comment where I compared Dennis to Rick. Any similarity here?

I also want to remind all, the beginning of this comment is just to enjoy the racing. What part of the racing is being enjoyed here by the racer or the volunteer to help him out?
My original comment spoke of this problem. And yet somehow we are back on to it. The factory-supported pros (not all) think they can do as they want even if it’s make an a$$ of themselves at the volunteers expense. And you say it’s part of racing. Ego’s are killing RMSHA.
The Rick Ward, Darren Gould, David Sheppard, Brett Rasmussen, Chris Brandt or even Kirk Williamson-Polaris Zollingers (Nathan, Ryan and Anthony) crew (the list goes on) has never spoken one word poorly to hillcrew. The aspect of their anger is not the hillcrew but of their misfortune of hitting a hole or rut wrong. They are just as fierce competitors as anyone and yet they see we as hillcrew are not the problem, but the help out of a bad spot even if we didn’t save their sled. I was ran over by one of the Sheppard boys on his mod sled (screws) and before the sled came to a stop, he was off the sled, pulled me out from under it and was apologizing to me. I didn’t know whether to say thanks for pulling me out or for the experience. I was having a ball. This has been my vacation every year for 16 years. But I knew he appreciated my efforts and believed there isn’t a sled worth getting someone hurt.
I say again, the poorest apple makes the loudest noise and therefore makes the worst representation for the whole group. Dennis has the power to prove to all involved he can change to make RMSHA better as with anyone else who finds himself falling into this bad attitude category. You may think you are allowed or don’t care but in the end, you lose.

syko
 

Racer220

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I get what you're saying Syko, but in my case it's definitely not a lottery, rich wife/family member issue that got me where I am at. Have I had cash sponsors before? Absolutely. But my main point pertained to all of 2012 and most of my previous years. A stickered up sled may mean something to some people, but in my case nobody was paying me for having their logo plastered all over my stuff this year. Believe me I'll give credit where credit is due when it comes to who supports me in one way or another. Back to the main topic.......

This is shooting for the stars, but....

What are the possibilities of RMSHA 'branching' out into divisions? East/West, North/South??? Look at how many non-sanctioned events are held in Oregon/Washington. Look how many people want to Reno race back, or races at spots in California. Look at proposed race sites - Big Sky, Tamarak, Grand Targhee, and possibly trying to keep Schweitzer going in Sandpoint. Heck, my dad even suggested Sun Valley seeing as how it's a privately owned resort. RMSHA has 450-550 entries they run through every weekend with only a handful of new people each year accounting for that number. Keep the races that we currently have and expand south or west. Start a division with 5-7 races in the northwest. Combine the top riders at the end of the year for a circuit championship similar to Jackson.

Thoughts????
 
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sykosledhead

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220

If what you say is true, than you must admit, you are the exception. The issue here is not what one person has done but as a whole, 99% live by sponsers. Besides, were not talking about scientists or corperate CEOs. Were talking about the average guy. And again I say, how can an average rider get started into this sport? Can you deny you must spend in the $100K ballpark or more for your outfit and all the travel? If not, guess. If so, it is much higher. And for the average team, this is what is spent on the RV alone. Not to say we all need to keep up with the Jones, but again, to compete is to be comparable. Were not talking of throwing the ol' El Tigre in the family truckster and stopping by for a fun day at the hill. No offense to the El Tigre fans amung us, I rode those many years ago.
But again, how can we get more folks to attempt to enter events is the question? Personally, I think a Hooters or M&M's spondered team is just about the ticket but there are some non-believers here too. But seriously, to get folks to spend their hard-earned food money on an event is hard to swallow. I believe this is the logic behind the different classes, ie: Pro, semi-pro and ameteurs, which has brought some to the hills with al least the attempt.

I do like your idea of opening the venues up geographically. This is a possible idea. There are sleds over most the northern USA.

RMSHA?

Again, as I began, I have looked at the possibilites of one in the Snowies, Laramie, WY. I would need to speak to some race reps to get some facts before I could do too much. The ski area is looking for expanded business (from the scuttle butt)and they have quite a bit of parking/lodge area. Most of the over-night lodging/food areas would be in Laramie, 35 miles away. But there are some close, like Mountain Meadows cabins and the small town of Centennial. And to say as well, there are some really good riding areas close by for those that like to watch and ride some. The beauty of the Snowies is CO is close, and when travelling from the East, its the first big hill on I-80. The bad is if your the Tapio boys, it would be better to fly in than drive from WA.

Maybe, just maybe.

Good talk 220. Anyone else with some ideas here? RMSHA want to chime in at all? Dennis? Throttlecable? Snow Devils?
Lets try to get some sponsored teams to throw their thoughts on here for a different outlook.

Hey guys, am I off my rocker? Thompsons and Ski-doo, Zollingers, both Polaris and Cat? Cody and Yamaha? Tapios? Sharps? Curtis crew? and all the big teams I can't think off the top of my head?

Why can't we get a voice from the companies themselves? Cat, Polaris, Ski-do and Yamaha? These events are a big part of their sales? Not just Jackson.

And one last correction, it was one of the Sharp boys that ran me over, not the typo-Sheppard. My bad. I still laugh about that one. What a nice guy.

Something to think about.


syko.
 

Keith517

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Getting into racing can be expensive but for all those reading this thread looking to get into racing I don't want you to think it will cost you $100,000. I just started racing a few years ago. I did not know a single person who raced RMSAH, I had no factory sponsor ships. I do not live close to the races. I live in central Utah about 120 miles south of Salt Lake City, so travel to the races is quite far. When I started racing I was in my final year of College and working. I did have few sponsors listed below and what they gave me.

The company I worked for: They gave me time off work to go to the races.
A local dealer ship: Gave me parts at there cost
A local graphics company: Put graphics on my sled for free
A local Outdoor store: Gave me a pair of Boots

I am very grateful for the help they gave, every little bit helped.
If you are just starting in RMSHA you will most likely be competing in the Semi-Pro classes not the Pro classes. There is not near the amount of factory support in Semi-Pro and many do like I did and run a stock sled in the Stock, Improved-Stock and Mod Classes. Riders ability is, I would say, 90% of the success in hillclimbing so being on a stock sled in all three classes in Semi-Pro is not as big of disadvantage as you might think. Racer220 is a good example, he got in the finals in all three classes at Jackson on his stock sled. Another good example, the first race I ever competed in was the Preston pride hillclimb. I remember one of the days, Keith Curtis put the fastest time of the day on his 700 stock sled.

I started with a stock M7 ( I bought it used for $4,000), I got a 14'x7' cargo trailer and that is what I hauled my sled in ( $1,500). I used my travel money for gas in my truck, I was on a tight budget so instead of staying at a hotel i put my Big Buddy heater in my trailer and slept in my trailer. Average race is about 300 miles from where i live, so 600 miles round trip. I got about 10 mpg in my old gasser truck pulling the little trailer so my fuel cost per race was between $200 and $300 per race.
I entered 3 races my first year and i think i ended up spending about $7,000 in the first season, sled and all.

That is how I started and have built from there, It has been a blast, I love racing, I now have a lot of friends at RMSHA both semi-pro riders and Pro riders. As stated above there are a few who have big egos but I have found that most of them are very down to earth and good guys, willing to help out and give advice any way they can. The RMSHA staff are great to help and very friendly.

This has just been my experience as a RMSHA outsider getting into the sport. I would encourage anyone who is thinking about racing to give it a try, it is a lot of fun and a great way to test and improve your riding skills.
 
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sykosledhead

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Jackson

Slow-poke.

Thanks for chiming in. We all appreciate the facts.

I can say Jackson has been on my radar fro som e time and I am holding out for jackson. I was once on the starting line and opted out due to not being ready. Not that I was able to, but as with all racers, its about learning what to do and not to do. Well one point I can pass on is once your put screws in your track, go ride it around. I didn't. So sitting on the starting line, pin the gas and all I hear is my anti-ratchet drivers rachetting. It was vewry icy that year and you have.05 secs to decide what you will do. I chose no-go and try another year.

I can say also I have made a ton of freinds in RMSHA as well. They, as a whole, are a great buch of folks and love the sport of sleds as much as I.

I don't want to focus on the bad because the good don't deserve it. I made my point and off we go.

I will say to anyone interested, give it a try. I had a blast but for a moment while on the line. I had the worst case of tunnel vision. Maybe like me where I focus on one race and the expense of just one. It is doable if you try.
Don't think you will be racing with the pros off the get-go.

I will get back on that line again. Maybe this year. The beast has been in the shop all summer getting a new chassis and now pipe work.

Enjoy all


syko
 

Racer220

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Good luck getting any factory reps to chime in here. Not sure there are even any registered as members on SW from anything I've seen. It makes sense to ask though when you look at the other big circuits in the U.S. What can be done to nab a huge sponsor like Amsoil, Air Force, etc.... Look at how much money they have put into the snocross circuits. Is that a valid way to start cutting costs at the racer level? Is it feasible to attempt that without having the venues that bring thousands of spectators in every weekend and not just 10s or 100s? I would think so. Not sure how much it would help overall, but anything is still better than nothing. You want an idea how bad factory support is struggling? My buddy got an offer for a factory sled for $12,500. $12,500!?!?! You could get a hold over with 3 year warranty for that price lol. And that's factory support? Granted he gets great deals on clothes and parts, but still... I totally agree that we need more than just a circuit rep hearing this stuff. What are the manufacturers doing to help the guys that are so willing to put that brand name out there every weekend? Would be nice to know.

I agree with you John. Even if you already ride, you have to take a substantial financial move to start racing. The biggest 'investment' is a sled. Let's face it, unless you're a Keith Curtis, Tapio, Rainey, or one of the other select freaks of nature you definitely need pretty up to date equipment. For the average joe that doesn't already have something similar I wouldn't suggest anything older than 2-3 years. Ballpark price range $5500-$7500 easy. Maybe cheaper though. I've seen year old stockers going for under $5k (rarely). If you have done the deal right, take your current sled and sell it to put $$$ towards upgrading. Almost everything else is dependent on how much you want to put in. How many races do you want to attend? How many classes? It's all relevant to how much you can afford obviously, but you definitely don't need a 6-figure setup to make it in this sport. Think about how much money you spend just to freeride during the winter. Fuel, food, weekend trips, etc... Would you sacrifice that to put it towards a starter race budget? Try to put into perspective what you would have spent anyway and start from there. If you can't get past that conversation with yourself, than you probably shouldn't plan on racing.

As far as truck and trailer setup, either use what you have or make friends and haul as a team to cut costs. From what I learned early on it doesn't make any difference in the world how you get there as much as setting up your race equipment the best you can.
 
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sykosledhead

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Spot on.

If and when I do get back to the line, I have made a rule for myself that I need to have as much riding in before the end of march as I can afford. Truly the practice is the test not the race itself.

Besides I bought a lottery ticket yest and when I win, its all good.. We can do the races together. If you can travel with a poo rider. But we will be comin from opposites sides. LOL

I'll stop by come Jackson and if your in the Snowys area, holler. I have a couple nice spots depending on your preference. Bring on the snow. Spoasta be 100 tomorrow in Cheyenne. I'm gunna crawl in my fridge and take a nap.

Syko
 

roughrider99

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Thanks for the info slow poke, I intend on trying to hit 2 races this year to get a feel of cost and expenses, and if I feel good in my races and prove to myself that I got a chance of doing well if I stick with it I plan to race the next full season, jumping into rmsha is huge for me cost wise, living in canada means all the races are a full days drive at best. Plan on running a stock sled and I am building up a plethora of spare parts, my biggest hurdle is time off work, I am a field mechanic, pretty much married to my job and on call 24/7
 
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