P
That sled looks SWEET all black...
Powdercoating a tunnel??????
- Thread starter S.Diddy
- Start date
Called up my local powdercoating shop today and the cost to powdercoat the suspension rails and cross bars was only $60. Never asked what it would cost for the whole tunnel. So now I just gotta strip down the rear skid and send them in.
We've been charging right around $85 for a set of suspension rails..but it's timed and depends on how much prep and grease cleanup. They must be perfectly clean or you get flaking. Everybody has a different technique from simple wipe/electrocute/apply then cook to extensive prep with a light finish media prep/phosphorous dip/priming agent/apply then cook. Also various techniques in temp control and product thickness control have radical durability and performance results.
Super hard and silky smooth is what we are hoping for!
A tunnel is not that significant cost wise from a material standpoint more the ability for your coater to handle the odd size depending on their preferred process.
Super hard and silky smooth is what we are hoping for!
A tunnel is not that significant cost wise from a material standpoint more the ability for your coater to handle the odd size depending on their preferred process.
We've been charging right around $85 for a set of suspension rails..but it's timed and depends on how much prep and grease cleanup. They must be perfectly clean or you get flaking. Everybody has a different technique from simple wipe/electrocute/apply then cook to extensive prep with a light finish media prep/phosphorous dip/priming agent/apply then cook. Also various techniques in temp control and product thickness control have radical durability and performance results.
Super hard and silky smooth is what we are hoping for!
A tunnel is not that significant cost wise from a material standpoint more the ability for your coater to handle the odd size depending on their preferred process.
I just payed $150 to have my new ice age rails powder coated.
M
I just ordered one powdercoated hope it last ok i wanted it black so i got the krinkle black they say it holds up well and is more scratch resistant. not scratch proof but a lot better than gloss
P
Exactly......could not of said it better myself.
P.P.
F-BOMB; I just got a timbersled set up for my turbo project, got the new ice age rails to match but like a damb fool I spent about 2 hours polishing the rails what do I do to prep them for shipment to you for powder coating? hope the polish doesn't hurt anything. Used Wizard
Well you actually have another avenue that you can go now that you polished them. You could get pretty decent performance, good durability, and really good appearance from anodized black. (I run a set of that as well) Our tests show that anodized will only compete in battling snow and ice buildup when the surface finish is polished. It still isn't or doesn't seem to be quite as good as the best coated finish in every aspect but the real key is the pre-polish so I can't be definate in that statement concerning your rails.
Now with that said we get them shipped in all of the time. Guys double them and build a custom box to cover them. It's pricey since they are of an odd size and you get bumped for length. Remember the cost does not include shipping so obviously the return to you will have to be added (luckily we are a massive volume shipper and it should be less coming back then it is coming in).
On yours we will re-finish (light media blast) and chemical treat prior to phosphate and or primer since we have to be 100% certain that the polishing compound has "left the building" or the finish won't last. Also gang we can do colors as well. I'm wanting somebody to do red or blue just to see it layed out on a sled. Me, I'm boring and like the solid black out sleds just like people are showing.
Also note you guys talking about "wrinkle finish". The wrinkle finishes or hammer finishes are universally some of the hardest most durable compounds to apply. But there is a disadvantage to the wrinkle finish because of the cupping effect that increases the bond between surface and ice is the worst performer at shedding snow. Same if your applicator does a poor job on any coated process and the finish shows the orange peel effect. So kind of a give and a take on that one. Looks cool lasts a long long time but doesn't shed the ice as well.
Guy talking about "telflon". It is just a spray on finish brand name process from Dupont that is a surface treatment. It's job is to fill pores in metal to decrease friction...not come off in your food...and chemically coat and "seal" the under metal to battle reaction to environmental elements that would ruin your food and quickly ruin the metal of the cooking tool. It's not durable enough for our world uses and doesn't perform any better. Do a search on carnuba wax blend processes and 'ice trays' inventions from the 60's for the most effective process ever created to date on adhesion coatings to battle ice adhesion and crystalization. Just fascinating (YA RIGHT!)
Now with that said we get them shipped in all of the time. Guys double them and build a custom box to cover them. It's pricey since they are of an odd size and you get bumped for length. Remember the cost does not include shipping so obviously the return to you will have to be added (luckily we are a massive volume shipper and it should be less coming back then it is coming in).
On yours we will re-finish (light media blast) and chemical treat prior to phosphate and or primer since we have to be 100% certain that the polishing compound has "left the building"
or the finish won't last. Also gang we can do colors as well. I'm wanting somebody to do red or blue just to see it layed out on a sled. Me, I'm boring and like the solid black out sleds just like people are showing.Also note you guys talking about "wrinkle finish". The wrinkle finishes or hammer finishes are universally some of the hardest most durable compounds to apply. But there is a disadvantage to the wrinkle finish because of the cupping effect that increases the bond between surface and ice is the worst performer at shedding snow. Same if your applicator does a poor job on any coated process and the finish shows the orange peel effect. So kind of a give and a take on that one. Looks cool lasts a long long time but doesn't shed the ice as well.
Guy talking about "telflon". It is just a spray on finish brand name process from Dupont that is a surface treatment. It's job is to fill pores in metal to decrease friction...not come off in your food...and chemically coat and "seal" the under metal to battle reaction to environmental elements that would ruin your food and quickly ruin the metal of the cooking tool. It's not durable enough for our world uses and doesn't perform any better. Do a search on carnuba wax blend processes and 'ice trays' inventions from the 60's for the most effective process ever created to date on adhesion coatings to battle ice adhesion and crystalization. Just fascinating
(YA RIGHT!)
T
Iam going to get my tunnel powder coated Black, bulk head Dark Blue, trailing arms Dark Blue, the rails Dark Blue, the suspension black and the bumper Dark Blue!!
What do you think?
Any better coloring??
The guy i talked to said he would do it all for $600!
J
What do you think?
Any better coloring??
The guy i talked to said he would do it all for $600!
J
Dang that 09-D9 in black looks good!!
Here’s my $0.02 on the topic of ice/coatings/aluminum rails and tunnels.
I think that Rob (F-Bomb) has a great low buck idea for the plain-Jane tunnel wrap... it will keep ice buildup down big time...and be cost effective without the need to disassemble the sled.
The people at Arctic FX ARE super easy to deal with.
Rob's workmanship and attention to detail are hard to find in todays products. Not many people out there take the time and research that Rob does in his work.
Keeping the sled from gaining weight, as Rob points out is as important as starting with a light sled. I've seen a 25 lb "block" of ice fall onto the track of 162" Edge chassis from a couple of hours of riding after we took a lunch break.
Powder coating the entire tunnel bulkhead assy is a PITA from a disassembly/re-assembly time frame. Powder coating the entire tunnel and bulkhead assy will also add multiple pounds to the weight of the sled but would stay lighter in use without the ice/snow buildup.
In addition, if you powder coat the tunnel on a RAW chassis, the powder coating will slow down the thermal transfer rate of the coolers in the tunnel by a fair amount. If you DO powder coat the tunnel, DO NOT powder coat the surface of the tunnel coolers inside the tunnel.
The most Hydrophobic coatings are the ones that will shed ice/snow build up the most. A hydrophobic coating is non porous and will fill in the porosity of the substrate metal.
The powder that Rob upgraded to last season seems to be top end in the durability and Hydrophobic properties. It does still scratch from normal use.
Robs Better-Boards are the best out there, especially the coated ones and have some of the most scratch resistant powder coating on them that I have ever seen.
This is where F-Bomb and I differ in opinions on coatings for Aluminum parts... and that is OK...
For the rails the best coating would be Type III anodizing also known as "Hard Coat" anodizing and is NOT to be confused with decretive Anodizing (Black or colored anodizing, Type II) including the black anodizing that Ice Age uses on their anodized rails (I have a couple of sets of these).
Type III would not need to be polished to be Highly hydrophobic.
The Type II anodizing on comercially available rails out there will scratch fairly easily. Type II DOES shed ice better if the surface is polished as it decreases the porosity of the surface and thus has more hydrophobic properties.... even better if the edges are radiused.
Type II anodizing is inherently porous, some processes less than others. Type II anodizing scratches fairly easily.
Even better at shedding ice are the “dry lube” Type III anodizing that has a small percentage of PTFE in suspension.
Type III Anodizing is VERY hard (65-70 on Rockwell C-scale) on the 7129 alloy of the Polaris rails and would resist scratching better than any powder coating or paint applied to the rails, hands down.
It adds essentially no weight to the part and improves its wear resistance.
You would have a VERY difficult time scratching the surface of a Type III anodized part in normal use.
For comparison a top notch knife blade, Very hard steel, has a Rockwell-C hardness of 55-62 (the higher the number the harder the surface).
Type III ano is used by the US Navy on Submarines to shed Ice in arctic exposure on aluminum and some Titanium alloys on the outside of the ship.
Type III anodizing is also used in Milataryfirearm manufacture, high-end cookware (not to be confused with the $50 "teflon" pans) and telecommunications as well as many industrial parts,
… And even the shafts (grey color) of all four of the Fox Floats on the Better Boards Demo sled… I doubt that you have seen ice stick to the shafts of the shocks. On the Floats, what I am calling the shafts is technically referred to in the Fox “jargon” as the body. The air chamber or “air sleeve” of the Fox floats is a high end Type II Black anodizing and some Ice Does build up on the air-sleeve ... but not the Type III anodizing of the "shaft"
There are plenty of industrial anodizing houses across the nation that will do Type III anodizing at a reasonable price. Probably in the neighborhood of $100 per pair.... if imaculately clean or brand new (and cleaned)
On the Rails, one of the "ice builders" is the fact that the cutouts on the rails and all the machined edges are square and actually quite sharp. Radius those edges.
On my rails, I will used a very small bearing guided 1/8” radius carbide router bit in a die grinder to radius all the “widows” and edges of the rails so that Ice has even less of a chance to build up.
If I were to replace the tunnel on MY sled... I would have he entire thing Type III anodized if I could find a metal finisher with a large enough tank. If I do the CR Tunnel sides.. they will be hardcoated for sure!!
Cut and paste here
This just gives you another opinion and another option.
This is my opinion based on my education/career in Mechanical engineering, materials application and years of experience in the industrial field (marine specialty and Yacht systems)
Here is a link to a a basic site describing Type III
http://elite-metalfinishing.com/anodizetype3.html
AND
http://www.teammetalfinishing.com/anodizing.html
Here’s my $0.02 on the topic of ice/coatings/aluminum rails and tunnels.
I think that Rob (F-Bomb) has a great low buck idea for the plain-Jane tunnel wrap... it will keep ice buildup down big time...and be cost effective without the need to disassemble the sled.
The people at Arctic FX ARE super easy to deal with.
Rob's workmanship and attention to detail are hard to find in todays products. Not many people out there take the time and research that Rob does in his work.
Keeping the sled from gaining weight, as Rob points out is as important as starting with a light sled. I've seen a 25 lb "block" of ice fall onto the track of 162" Edge chassis from a couple of hours of riding after we took a lunch break.
Powder coating the entire tunnel bulkhead assy is a PITA from a disassembly/re-assembly time frame. Powder coating the entire tunnel and bulkhead assy will also add multiple pounds to the weight of the sled but would stay lighter in use without the ice/snow buildup.
In addition, if you powder coat the tunnel on a RAW chassis, the powder coating will slow down the thermal transfer rate of the coolers in the tunnel by a fair amount. If you DO powder coat the tunnel, DO NOT powder coat the surface of the tunnel coolers inside the tunnel.
The most Hydrophobic coatings are the ones that will shed ice/snow build up the most. A hydrophobic coating is non porous and will fill in the porosity of the substrate metal.
The powder that Rob upgraded to last season seems to be top end in the durability and Hydrophobic properties. It does still scratch from normal use.
Robs Better-Boards are the best out there, especially the coated ones and have some of the most scratch resistant powder coating on them that I have ever seen.
This is where F-Bomb and I differ in opinions on coatings for Aluminum parts... and that is OK...
For the rails the best coating would be Type III anodizing also known as "Hard Coat" anodizing and is NOT to be confused with decretive Anodizing (Black or colored anodizing, Type II) including the black anodizing that Ice Age uses on their anodized rails (I have a couple of sets of these).
Type III would not need to be polished to be Highly hydrophobic.
The Type II anodizing on comercially available rails out there will scratch fairly easily. Type II DOES shed ice better if the surface is polished as it decreases the porosity of the surface and thus has more hydrophobic properties.... even better if the edges are radiused.
Type II anodizing is inherently porous, some processes less than others. Type II anodizing scratches fairly easily.
Even better at shedding ice are the “dry lube” Type III anodizing that has a small percentage of PTFE in suspension.
Type III Anodizing is VERY hard (65-70 on Rockwell C-scale) on the 7129 alloy of the Polaris rails and would resist scratching better than any powder coating or paint applied to the rails, hands down.
It adds essentially no weight to the part and improves its wear resistance.
You would have a VERY difficult time scratching the surface of a Type III anodized part in normal use.
For comparison a top notch knife blade, Very hard steel, has a Rockwell-C hardness of 55-62 (the higher the number the harder the surface).
Type III ano is used by the US Navy on Submarines to shed Ice in arctic exposure on aluminum and some Titanium alloys on the outside of the ship.
Type III anodizing is also used in Milataryfirearm manufacture, high-end cookware (not to be confused with the $50 "teflon" pans) and telecommunications as well as many industrial parts,
… And even the shafts (grey color) of all four of the Fox Floats on the Better Boards Demo sled… I doubt that you have seen ice stick to the shafts of the shocks. On the Floats, what I am calling the shafts is technically referred to in the Fox “jargon” as the body. The air chamber or “air sleeve” of the Fox floats is a high end Type II Black anodizing and some Ice Does build up on the air-sleeve ... but not the Type III anodizing of the "shaft"
There are plenty of industrial anodizing houses across the nation that will do Type III anodizing at a reasonable price. Probably in the neighborhood of $100 per pair.... if imaculately clean or brand new (and cleaned)
On the Rails, one of the "ice builders" is the fact that the cutouts on the rails and all the machined edges are square and actually quite sharp. Radius those edges.
On my rails, I will used a very small bearing guided 1/8” radius carbide router bit in a die grinder to radius all the “widows” and edges of the rails so that Ice has even less of a chance to build up.
If I were to replace the tunnel on MY sled... I would have he entire thing Type III anodized if I could find a metal finisher with a large enough tank. If I do the CR Tunnel sides.. they will be hardcoated for sure!!
Cut and paste here
This just gives you another opinion and another option.
This is my opinion based on my education/career in Mechanical engineering, materials application and years of experience in the industrial field (marine specialty and Yacht systems)
Here is a link to a a basic site describing Type III
http://elite-metalfinishing.com/anodizetype3.html
AND
http://www.teammetalfinishing.com/anodizing.html
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While I'm on a caffine induced typing spree
Also, inside the tunnel, to keep from GAINING weight from ice/snow building up in the area of the RAW tunnel on the Dragon models that do not have a front-tunnel heat exchanger. I rivet on a 1/16” thick sheet of UHMW plastic, full 15” wide of the tunnel. This is attached from where the front end of the cooler stops and where the inside of the tunnel exits on the bottom… Really cheap… will take abuse from spring riding and there will be ZERO ice buildup in that area.
This will keep this area clean and will help in the battle against robbing serious HP from your sled from parasitic loss created by drag from a decrease in this opening.
Also, inside the tunnel, to keep from GAINING weight from ice/snow building up in the area of the RAW tunnel on the Dragon models that do not have a front-tunnel heat exchanger. I rivet on a 1/16” thick sheet of UHMW plastic, full 15” wide of the tunnel. This is attached from where the front end of the cooler stops and where the inside of the tunnel exits on the bottom… Really cheap… will take abuse from spring riding and there will be ZERO ice buildup in that area.
This will keep this area clean and will help in the battle against robbing serious HP from your sled from parasitic loss created by drag from a decrease in this opening.
WOW Rob/MH..Very good info...my eyes are burning now but worth the read..
thanks for the excellent detail
thanks for the excellent detail
T
sent for a quote on the typeIII but if the f'ster is having good luck with his stuff and it doesn't need to be redone except maybe every 3rd year or so I'll give him the business. Yea I have powder coaters within 50 miles of me and sure the shipping is costly but I want it done right and the red could be cool w/ the right wrap plus; $10,000. for the machine , all the RSI bar stuff the BD turbo the wrap ,timbersled ect what's a little shipping, besides it will stimulate the economy and put food on some truckers plate(nutri system I hope)
You wont go wrong if you have F-Bomb take care of your coating... Like he said... its all in the prep. Worth the shipping to know it's done right!
Heres one I saw a while back from an 08 Cat M... All Orange PowCoat.. but if you squint... you can imagine it in all red.
Heres one I saw a while back from an 08 Cat M... All Orange PowCoat.. but if you squint... you can imagine it in all red.
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H
Just to input my .02 cents. I right a 06 X-Fire with a factory PC tunnel. My buddies ride M's with bare tunnels. While out riding, I constantly see them banging on there running boards trying to clean them out. Keep in mind that they also run Snow Eliminators as well. In some regards, I think these snow elimination devices collect MORE snow on the boards, but that is another topic. Anyway, with my PCed tunnel, I never have snow build up on the boards.
$200 seems pretty high... how many places did you get a quote from?
here mine with truck bedliner http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104182
MH ; went the link on your thread, like i said it was a quick quote I just told them approximate size and that they were sled rails, perhaps the salesman isn't a sledder and is clue less. guess e could say that 200.00 would be the most youd pay
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