09 Dragon 800 Top End Rebuild

[akrevrider]

Polaris blue semi synthetic to break it in and Amsoil Interceptor after that and no oil related issues in four new sleds.

My sled has the 08 fuel map & 08 head, the Fix Kit and an Aaen single pipe with stock can (this produced the most hp per a dyno run).

I'm running a PCV with a custom fuel map with a little fuel added in the mid-range & a little fuel taken out on the top end.

Don't have enough time on it this season to say how much better it runs with the 08 map & head but it is running really good so far.

akrevrider

 

[Jeff95]

Does the 08 map have the same safe mode detection as the newer maps?
I running the Jan/2010 map and seam to be going into safe mode allot.
I was running the Wayne Stoutner 1/1/2010 map. I'm going to try the SLP map it adds less fuel in the mid range. After boondocking down a long ridge I hit the gas and had no power. I had fouled a new plug that I put in earlier that day. SLP told me that with the 13.2-1 head you don't need to change the fuel map. They use the same map for Stage 1-3 kits. I would think the head would change the mid to top range!

Its close so just need to tweek a bit.

One of these days I will get smarter or lucky and get it running good!

 

[chumbilly1]

Iknow that pms is running the 08 map, and that the fix kit will raise comp ratio a little. If you cannot get non ethanol fuel I would give it a little 100ll or 110 leaded race fuel. 2 gallons per tank goes a long way to fight detonation. Most good engine tuners will tell you that e-10 fuel is horrible for sleds,and that it is not what they meen when they say pump gas! good luck.

 

[Hawkster]

I've already posted these on another sight so I apologize for sounding like a torked off SOB but any quality oil will work because it's not going to save you from this . Do you see anything wrong with the piston ? Besides the normal skuffing on the bottom which is the norm for these 800s' Totally backwards ,the piston out lasted the sleeve on this 2010 with a little over 2000 miles . The Fix is sitting on the bench , just waiting for the jug to get back and after this season it's gone. Poos' new saying less is better on the pros ? Are we really that @#$%@! stupid to pay more for less ?

 

[jim9006]

Crikey! That’s exactly how mine looked with just under 600 mi.. $576.00 and 22 days later US chrome had the cylinders back in my hot little hands ready to go. One day after that I had my MTK kit installed and now I’m heat soak’n till snow falls.

 

[Eli]

I've already posted these on another sight so I apologize for sounding like a torked off SOB but any quality oil will work because it's not going to save you from this . Do you see anything wrong with the piston ? Besides the normal skuffing on the bottom which is the norm for these 800s' Totally backwards ,the piston out lasted the sleeve on this 2010 with a little over 2000 miles . The Fix is sitting on the bench , just waiting for the jug to get back and after this season it's gone. Poos' new saying less is better on the pros ? Are we really that @#$%@! stupid to pay more for less ?

The cylinder didn't last because of the piston clearance/design. Fixing the piston will also help prevent that cylinder issue. Better that you found the crack under inspection than explosion!

 

[JUSTIN]

That is damm near identical to what my 09D8 Cylinders and pistons looked like after a 1000 miles. I am guessing, is that the mag side?
You(Hawkster) say those are of your 2010? The 2010 Cylinders were supposed to be a thicker walled cylinder, I almost had 2010 cylinders put on but went with the Carl's Cycle 860 Kit instead, makes me feel way better about my decision(many $ for 860 kit) not to do the 2010 cylinder's.
Have any of you checked your bulkhead for cracks in the welds? Look at the area that would be under the y-pipe. It can be hard to see but take a flashlight and inspect were the welds end. All four of the 09D8 in our group have had cracks start were the weld ends. The mileage varied on each sled but they all had it, mine was a pretty minor crack but some of the others were cracked pretty bad.
All said I am loving the power and torque of the Carl's Cyle 860 Kit and feel more confident not having the Polaris Cylinder and piston's in it.
Let it snow

 

[Hawkster]

Hope she works for ya jim9006 because I'm doing just what you did . Eli , the piston clearance is about as snug as you can get , nothing like the slop of the 08s' and 9s' , JUSTIN ....... the pile's a 2010 and it is the mag side, bulk head is still good , for now .

 

[Eli]

As I understand, the short pistons still have more tendency, even with proper clearances, to wobble....to scuff....to break(itself and surrounding parts(the cylinder!))


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hawkster]

I see what your saying ELI and after seeing how far the piston drops down to the crank I'd say that's the other problem. I've come to the conclussion that poo is at least ten to twenty years behind on there engine technology . Remember the 670 rotax ? They keep making mistakes others have already done in more ways than one . Who am I to say ?

 

[jim9006]

Hawk, I will post up when I have more data. So Far I’m like’n what I see. I do have one question for you though. Did you measure your piston to cylinder clearance? Mine was over .007 on each one on a sled that had slightly more than 500mi on it. (.006 is max per Polaris spec.). I could literally rock the pistons back and forth in the bores when I removed the heads (doesn’t do that now with the PMS kit installed) and .005 clearance. I spoke to my dealer / mechanic and they did not measure when installing the update….. Turns out they didn’t start doing that until the returns started coming back (because they, like the rest of us believed Polaris!).

 

[Hawkster]

jim9006, I didn't measure the clearance but when I stuck the new piston from the kit in it before sending it to the same guys you sent yours there didn't seem to be a differance , nice and snug nothing like the photos from the 8s' and 9s' You can tell by the one on the photo that it was a good fit for having over 2000 miles. I made my own intake filter with a SPI filter and a presock , and sealing up the leaky air box so there's no snow scuff on the piston just that unusual wear at the bottom of the intake side , no scuffs on the exhaust. I'll be anxious to see you reports and I'll also do the same. It's funny how dumping money and busting your hump to fix something makes you actually appreciate the pile.

 

[volcano buster]

Have any of you checked your bulkhead for cracks in the welds? Look at the area that would be under the y-pipe. It can be hard to see but take a flashlight and inspect were the welds end. All four of the 09D8 in our group have had cracks start were the weld ends. The mileage varied on each sled but they all had it, mine was a pretty minor crack but some of the others were cracked pretty bad.

Any photos for reference?

 

[Mentzel]

Are the updated Polaris pistons cast or forged? Forged pistons such as wisecos will typically require more clearance because they expand more. .0075" is not un-heard of for high perf applications.

However, for cast pistons that clearance is too loose and will cause many issues. Piston skirt breakage, seizure, excessive ring blow by, cracked cylinders to name a few. .0055-.0065 clearance is more common for cast pistons.

An option if the pistons are too loose is swain tech coatings. They work great in many applications! If the clearance is greater than .0065" I would match up wiseco pistons or coat the cast ones with swain tech pc9. That is if you can not bore cylinder and get correct size pistons. (nikasil)

 

[Mentzel]

Back to the subject matter, did you check your TPS voltage? This is a critical first step before tuning with the PCV5.

Also there are zero issues with VES Gold oil! Anyone that tells you differently is wrong. I have ran many full mod race engines on this oil both snowmobile and watercraft with great success.

SLP is of course going to sell you redline.... The old lady on the corner is going to sell you amsoil!

 

[Jeff95]

Yes check TPS and OK.
I going to try the 08 Flash. Not sure what base map to load for PV5. Think I will add a little in mid range to be safe.

If anyone is running the 08 flash with PV5 it would help to see the PV5 Map.
I have not seen a map on the forum and maybe it would cause more problems with everyone adding there 2 cents.

Maybe start with the SLP map and take away 5% in the mid range and zeroing top end until getting more run time on motor.

Jeff

 

[Jeff95]

Update

Wow!!!
The 08 map works great. Tuined the fuel and ended up with only taking a little off the top (7000-8250). My plugs are dark brown and it rips!

Need more snow.

Jeff

 

[civerson86]

the fix

After having my cylinders honed and having the piston too cylinder wall clearance checked and everything being on the low end of the specs I decided to install my fix kit. Got her all put together one heat cycle than did a compression test......both cylinders read 155 lbs of compression on each cylinder, before with the updated piston it only made a 117 each hole with the same compression gauge. Strike any red flags 40 pounds is quite a bit of change? DETO? Wut do you guys think

 

[IDPOLARIS]

What head are you running what's your elevation and did you check you piston to head squish.

 

[IDPOLARIS]

Wow!!!
The 08 map works great. Tuined the fuel and ended up with only taking a little off the top (7000-8250). My plugs are dark brown and it rips!

Need more snow.

Jeff

Whats your elevation you ride and what head you running. what map are you also using.