Is this DD oil normal after 500kms / 300 miles?

Hey guys

I'm trying to figure out what normal DD gear oil looks like after a 500kms.

This past fall I had the DD apart off my 09 HCR and all looked good in there. I did put the double row bearing in it back for the 2012 season. I may have 2000kms (1200 miles) on the sled since I put that bearing in it.

Anyway, lately I've been getting a vibration through the tunnel. The vibration varies at times. I figured it was ice in the tunnel or the type of snow I was riding on with that Power Claw track. Its not the first time I've gotten that vibe. I checked a list of things like busted bogey wheels, anything rubbing the track, bent driveshaft (I have experience with bent shafts on my old 1M...the sled shakes), but all checks out. I also starting hearing a new type of whining sound as of last week. I know the DD makes a whining sound anyway, but this sounded slightly different. I figured after I was being too paranoid. I rode 200kms since and haven't had an issue.

Today I tipped the machine on its left side and drained the oil from the DD looking looking for metal shavings. I drained it into a plastic bag...see attached pic. No signs of metal shavings and I watched it come out. This is 500kms of riding (300+ miles).

Is this normal? I am just trying to save myself some time taking the DD off and apart. It's not a 10 minute job for me. I am working full time at doing school part time, trying to squeeze in a ride here and there. I don't want to waste my time if this is normal.

Thanks!

I tried one more thing. I tipped the sled again, got a Q tip, slightly bent it and put in the drain hole and scrapped the bottom of the dd. At first it looked like oil but I could barely notice some metal glitter sparking in it. I would figure this would be normal. I didn't see any pieces of metal from a bearing.

Not sure about the oil, but a worn hifax can cause vibration and a belt can cause vibration if it has a wear spot/s in it.

I think it would be normal for oil to show a little small glitter. Take a strong magnet and put it up to bag and roll the oil around slowly to see if anything is left where the magnet is.

You could also flush your dd with diesel and capture the diesel and do the same thing.

.........and positive brake side bearings are in good shape??

Qreiff said:

.........and positive brake side bearings are in good shape??

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I replaced both of those this past fall, as well as all the bogey wheel bearings.

@ Coldfinger I'm going to swap on my spare belt and try that. It's a new one. I checked my hyfax too and I don't see any wear spots. It's the original hyfax actually, and it's hardly worn. I measured it compared to a new spare pair I have and there is 2mm of wear on them.

The oil looks bad to me but, how's your secondary clutch? I tore my DD apart last week looking for a vibration. 700+ miles and my oil looked like honey. After pulling and inspecting the DD I noticed my secondary had 4 broken screws. If I would have payed attention when pulling the clutch it would have saved me an hour but I was sure there was something wrong in the DD and in a hurry.

This is what my oil looked like after 700 miles, bearing all are good, planetary looked good as well. I also have a M7 which had very similar color at 900 miles.

Bowfisher said:

The oil looks bad to me but, how's your secondary clutch? I tore my DD apart last week looking for a vibration. 700+ miles and my oil looked like honey. After pulling and inspecting the DD I noticed my secondary had 4 broken screws. If I would have payed attention when pulling the clutch it would have saved me an hour but I was sure there was something wrong in the DD and in a hurry.

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I had a look at the outside facing side earlier and it looked ok. I'll have a closer look though.

Sledbrain2 said:

This is what my oil looked like after 700 miles, bearing all are good, planetary looked good as well. I also have a M7 which had very similar color at 900 miles.

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Your oil looks like mine. Makes me feel a little relieved. Thanks! I just feel mine turned black pretty quick given it it only lasted 300 miles.

I just Googled gear oil turning black and it seems to be common, especially where aluminum is used. And more common for cheaper oil. I had Quaker State gear oil in it, 75w90 I think.
http://forums.iboats.com/mercury-mariner-outboards/what-causes-gear-oil-turn-black-446616.html

And thanks to all who replied.

Sealed 5203 DD bearings come with polyurea grease, which overheats due to churning friction, chars and turns black. The rubber seals also get cooked. Never heard of a sealed DD bearing that was able to contain it's grease. The DD transfer shaft RPM is way too fast for grease.

My 2009 M8 cooked the 6203 stock bearing and turned my oil black, and a 5203 BDX bearing in my 2011 HCR did the same.

Side note: New polyurea grease doesn't mix well with syn-lube.

Now I run non-sealed 3203 bearings in my DD's. The oil (Amsoil Chain Case Lube) comes out with honey color, same as it went in.

Paul27 said:

Sealed 5203 DD bearings come with polyurea grease, which overheats due to churning friction, chars and turns black. The rubber seals also get cooked. Never heard of a sealed DD bearing that was able to contain it's grease. The DD transfer shaft RPM is way too fast for grease.

My 2009 M8 cooked the 6203 stock bearing and turned my oil black, and a 5203 BDX bearing in my 2011 HCR did the same.

Side note: New polyurea grease doesn't mix well with syn-lube.

Now I run non-sealed 3203 bearings in my DD's. The oil (Amsoil Chain Case Lube) comes out with honey color, same as it went in.

Click to expand...

I had my 09 apart and the 5203 bearing is tight, has no signs of seal coming apart. I am pretty sure the black is metal filings from the gear to gear interaction.

Sledbrain2 said:

I had my 09 apart and the 5203 bearing is tight, has no signs of the seal coming apart. I am pretty sure the black is metal filings from the gear to gear interaction.

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Sledbrain; Based on my experience, I still think you have a lube contamination issue.

After 700 miles, the BDX 5203 bearing in my 2011 HCR was tight, with seals more or less intact, same as yours. However, all the grease was gone, see photo. The "seals" were allowing syn-lube to leak in, flush the grease, and adequately lube the bearing with syn-lube. Just like yours, the BDX syn-lube in my DD was dark from what I believe was charred polyurea grease contamination. I had no mechanical issues with my DD. The BDX bearing nylon retainer was dark, as you can see in the photo.

That bearing turns at roughly 12,000 rpm, way too fast for grease! A bearing at that speed, like turbo & turbine applications, should have thin, 5 weight, synthetic oil mist. Signs of bearing over-heating (from grease churning) include: 1) the grease was gone (boiled away, charred, vaporized), 2) the seals were damaged and leaking, and 3) the bearing race was discolored. Never seen or heard of a DD bearing where the grease survived.

So why have a bearing in a DD with grease and seals? If the grease and seals don't last, and thus don't work, why have them? With an open 3203 SKF bearing in my 11 HCR and 09 M8, I've had no syn-lube discoloration and no bearing issues. Several other riders have reported the same results.

Just trying to provide information, for the benefit of other riders to consider. Whatever you decide, good luck and best regards!

Sergeant HCR said:

I had a look at the outside facing side earlier and it looked ok. I'll have a closer look though.



Your oil looks like mine. Makes me feel a little relieved. Thanks! I just feel mine turned black pretty quick given it it only lasted 300 miles.

I just Googled gear oil turning black and it seems to be common, especially where aluminum is used. And more common for cheaper oil. I had Quaker State gear oil in it, 75w90 I think.
http://forums.iboats.com/mercury-mariner-outboards/what-causes-gear-oil-turn-black-446616.html

And thanks to all who replied.

Click to expand...

Yeah, gear oil is NOT what you want to run in the DD. Either get oil from cat, black diamond or Amsoil makes a oil for the diamond drive. heavy (90w) gear lube is not even close to the right lube for that gear box. The cat/bdx/amsoil stuff is like 10w. very thin, almost water. Also, as stated above, worn hyfax (where it makes the turn) will cause a serious vibration where the track driver nubs start hitting the front shock lower arm.

normal

Look like mine always does change it every 500 miles and hittin 9k on the dd .