Wolves. on the endangered list again.

[Ollie]

The enviro's are at it again.
The endangered species list actually works and they don't like it.

http://my.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20080428/48154bc0_3421_13345200804281278492604

 

[bullfrog123]

We need a hunting season on these groups along with one for the wolves!!!! SOB's anyway.

 

[Ollie]

They whine and cry and sue to get them on the list.
Then when they have recovered they are pissed and sue so they don't have to admit they succeeded.

 

[HeadLever]

Technically, the are still off the Endangered Species List until a judge rules in favor of an injunction. I do not know who the Federal Judge is in Missoula, but I am hoping that whoever it is has the balls to laugh them out of court. I am not holding my breather, however.

 

[Scott]

Technically, the are still off the Endangered Species List until a judge rules in favor of an injunction. I do not know who the Federal Judge is in Missoula, but I am hoping that whoever it is has the balls to laugh them out of court. I am not holding my breather, however.

If they've met the target populations and breeding pair quotas then how can there be a legal leg to stand on to block the removal? What's the matter...their population survey was wrong? Bad science?

You can bet that in Missoula, the ruling will go emphatically one way or the other....generally the other. Most of them around here are liberals.

 

[khaddon2110]

If they've met the target populations and breeding pair quotas then how can there be a legal leg to stand on to block the removal? What's the matter...their population survey was wrong? Bad science?

You can bet that in Missoula, the ruling will go emphatically one way or the other....generally the other. Most of them around here are liberals.

Vote the bastages out!

 

[Ollie]

Actually all they have to do is try to argue that the target pairs was set too low.
Weak argument, but you can bet they will try.

 

[smokenjay]

I would think that environmental groups would be happy when species get removed from the list. Doesnt that mean progress is being made?

 

[HeadLever]

If they've met the target populations and breeding pair quotas then how can there be a legal leg to stand on to block the removal? What's the matter...their population survey was wrong? Bad science?

You can bet that in Missoula, the ruling will go emphatically one way or the other....generally the other. Most of them around here are liberals.

The quota was set by the federal goverment, not the environmental groups (thank God!). Defenders is now claiming that they originally said the 300 wolf quota was too low, even though they did nothing. I would like to see them prove this assertion.

If they truly thought that the federal quota was too low, why did they do nothing back then? Because they knew that demanding more wolves was a good way to get the whole reindroduction program killed. They took their chances and now they are following through with their plan on trying to force public policy through litigation.

I hope the feds grow some balls and fight this as agressively as possible. The problem with this is that most federal lawers (relatively low paying job) are the ones who did so poorly that they could not find work in the private sector (much higher paying job). If Ron Gillet and the Mayers really wanted to put their group's money to good use, they would hire a top-notch lawer to help the feds, pronto.

 

[HeadLever]

Man, I acually said "help the feds". I now feel dirty.

 

[Dogmeat]

I remember 15 years ago or so when all this got started ... It was a hornet's nest then, it's a hornet's nest now ...

The bottom line was, it was a TERRIBLE idea to re-introduce wolves for every reason that we're seeing today ...

Ok, the population rebounded .... now everyone and their dog wants to go shoot a wolf. Wooptee doo, something else we can shoot at and kill

I realize I have highly unpopular views on hunting, but seriously .... What was the point of reintroducing wolves only to delist them and effectivley paint targets all over them?'

The whole thing was as stupid idea as ever, and yes, I blame the idiot environmentalists for the whole thing.

What was supposed to happen, everyone that owned land and ranched in that part of the state was just supposed to be like "Oh well, the wolves just killed %10 of my herd this year, but that's ok because the federal government said we needed wolves."?

If they were serious about maintaining wolf populations they would have concentrated their efforts to have wolves in places they weren't going to be targeted because they were too close to civilization ... namley, Canada, The Yukon, etc ... It was STUPID STUPID STUPID to try to reintroduce them into such a relativley densley populated area, even as "sparsley" populated as the northern Rocky Mountain region is.

So what was the REAL motive all the enviro whackos had by reintroducing wolves? Personally, I think it was intended to be something else to push their agendas ... meaning, "Oh well, now there are wolves here, and they're another endangered species, so we can shut off access to all this land because the wolves need it" .... Sounds far fetched huh? Not really.

I guess IMO they never should have been reintroduced, but I think that for reasons that are probably different than the land owners up there...

Either way, this is a prime example of how mindlessly incompetent the federal government's so called "wildlife management programs" are.

 

[bullfrog123]

Problem is, is the feds and our elected officials have "Caved-In" to the pressure, (and millions of $s these A-holes have), of the enviro/wolf lovers. Plain and simple!!! The only Gov official with enough balls to stand up, was Wy governor. Id and Mt, caved in.
One other note, these enviros/wolf lovers don't have to deal with these wolves in their back yards. Most of them are city dwellers, not us outdoorsmen and ranchers that are suffering from these POS wolves. Our elk, deer, draw hunts in Id have been cut by hundreds of tags this yr due to these ***gin dogs. F&G won't admit there is a problem, but the # of hunts PROVES it.

How have the hunts been affected in Wy, Mt? I would like to know if you fellas are suffering the same thing.

www.saveourelk.com

 

[Snoman69]

I'm sure I'll get flamed, but...........

We should get rid off all the wild life, mnt lions, cougars, deer, elk, bob cats, hell, even squirels....... I am completely appalled at how close minded some of the comments are regarding wolf reinterduction..... They were here long berfore man and we wiped them away.... Is there a problem with wolves and ranching, yes.... Can it be solved, probably.....

For a natural environment, it takes an equal amount of predators to prey... Look at how the deer and elk population spiked because there were not enough predators to maintain the popluations.....

I believe we need to manage the wolf populations, but I do not believe that as soon as they are off endangered list that you should be able to go kill them as you freely want.... Have a hunting season for them, just like the rest of the wild life.

BTW - The envor's do suck

 

[Ollie]

I have no problem with wolves in places like yellowstone.
However.......
There is a big difference between, say a mountain lion and a wolf pack.
A mountain lion will avoid people. Jump up and down and they will run away.
You can shoot one of the wolves and they will still atack. They are smart, problem solving and have no fear of man.

Yes, they can be controled will targeted hunting, however, there again you will have a huge problem. The enviro's and people of that ilk who have no clue what they are talking about as they sit in their coffee shops won't allow it. They will sue, protest and the whole thing. It will take a group of childeren getting killed before anything happens and even then they will interfere as much as they can.

You can introduce and manage wolves. However, they MUST be confined to a specific area. Once they leave that area, they should be fair game.
It's one thing to have a large population of deer running around eating your flowers, it's another thing to have a large population of wolves eating your kids.

 

[SAWYER]

I shoot em anyway. Season or not

VE69, you obviously don't have wolf problems around you?

And no they weren't here long before man, in my area they were all transplanted

 

[HeadLever]

I'm sure I'll get flamed, but...........

We should get rid off all the wild life, mnt lions, cougars, deer, elk, bob cats, hell, even squirels....... I am completely appalled at how close minded some of the comments are regarding wolf reinterduction..... They were here long berfore man and we wiped them away.... Is there a problem with wolves and ranching, yes.... Can it be solved, probably.....

For a natural environment, it takes an equal amount of predators to prey... Look at how the deer and elk population spiked because there were not enough predators to maintain the popluations.....

I believe we need to manage the wolf populations, but I do not believe that as soon as they are off endangered list that you should be able to go kill them as you freely want.... Have a hunting season for them, just like the rest of the wild life.

BTW - The envor's do suck

The problem is that they have not been managed. The wolf population has been growning at aroun 25% per year and you are starting to see a huge drop-off in elk populations and an increase in livestock depredation. The area I hunt has had all of its' elk permits slashed in half over last year. Rumor has it that the aerial survey for the 3 hunting areas I hunt counted 67 bulls when last year there was over 350. You cannot blame it on the hunters because the sucess rate was lower last year than in the last 20.

If you want the wolf and deer/elk to come to a natural balance, you might as well kiss all of your hunting goodbye. If you want to continue to hunt, you have to manage the wolf population at a lower level so that the added take by hunters does not push the population over the edge.

 

[Scott]

I don't have a problem with the wolves that were ALREADY here. We've had them for years...they were NEVER gone out of the 9 mile valley west of Missoula. We have seen pictures at a friends house who lives up 9-mile. Pics from the 70s and 80s.....with WOLVES in their meadow. They were cool. I liked them.

I don't like RE-INTRODUCING anything. WHY does man have to f u g with it? They were doing fine on their own.

I'm sure I'll get flamed, but...........

We should get rid off all the wild life, mnt lions, cougars, deer, elk, bob cats, hell, even squirels....... I am completely appalled at how close minded some of the comments are regarding wolf reinterduction..... They were here long berfore man and we wiped them away.... Is there a problem with wolves and ranching, yes.... Can it be solved, probably.....

For a natural environment, it takes an equal amount of predators to prey... Look at how the deer and elk population spiked because there were not enough predators to maintain the popluations.....

I believe we need to manage the wolf populations, but I do not believe that as soon as they are off endangered list that you should be able to go kill them as you freely want.... Have a hunting season for them, just like the rest of the wild life.

BTW - The envor's do suck

 

[Snoman69]

I see what you guys are saying.... My point is that there needs to be and can be an equal balance.....

Scott said it well, when we the humans intervene, chit gets all messed up.... But it was us that caused the wolfs to be eliminated in most ares of the west.... Sawyer, your are right, we do not have the wolf problem down here in CO, yet..... I am originally from ID though, where their introduction was done in 95, so I am familiar with what has happened.....

 

[Wade]

The enviro's took in huge amounts of cash, to support forcing wolf reintroduction. Now they are taking in huge amounts of cash to support and fight to keep people from shooting the wolves. It's all about the money. They have a crisis, and someone will write a check, no crisis, no check.

 

[bullfrog123]

Good recovery Vert, nothing against ya just your 1st post set the wrong tone. And Wade said it well, the wolf lovers have WAYYY to much money to "buy their way of life" into an environment that they don't even live in, let alone even seen other than photos.

Let's drop off a pack of, say 10, in any city park in the US, no hunting for 15 yrs, let them breed like jackrabbits and see if they still want to go on their "nature" hikes. That would be interesting.

Our 3 states might be a small portion of the entire country, but this is still OUR land for cripes sake!! Or has the enviros bought out the Constitution? Regular Joe's off the street have no say anymore. Money is the only thing our Gov will listen too these days.