Why not government healthcare?

[Sidehiller]

Insurance is already socialized. I got my bill for my kid's health insurance last week and it went up 70%. I can't afford the hit. They have never been sick, Aetna just raised it for no apparent reason. I was told I could put them on my work health insurance, they started deducting off my check to pay for it. I canceled the kids' insurance with Aetna. Today I was told I couldn't add them because there was no "life changing event". WTF? Now my kids have no coverage untill after labor day when I can try to find an affordable policy.
My point is this - doctors, hospitals, etc. care for a boat load of people who have no insurance and make below some arbitrary salary for the 9 kids they have, so they get free health care.
Now someone with insurance comes along and the hospital jacks up the price to make up for the ones with no insurance.
Next, you and I see our rates sky rocket to pay these prices.

I am a conservative. I hate socialism. It is already here.
Bottom line, I am already paying for health care for a lot of people.
Does anybody have a solution?

 

[Ollie]

There actually is a solution.
There are a number of things they could do right now that wouldn't cost anything and would lower the cost of insurance by over 50% across the board.

1. TORT reform. They have to put doctors back in charge of the medical profession and take lawyers out. The cost of medical procedures are stupid high because doctors run loads of test that are both expensive and unnessary. They do it to protect themselves agains frivious law suits.

2. Lift any and all restrictions on importing medical equipment and medicines. Currently we HAVE To use US suppliers only. So they get to charge what ever they want. We could lower the costs of medicine and a lot of medical equipment by up to 75% by allowing the importation of equipment and medicines.

3. MORE DOCTORS. We have a critical shortage of doctors in this country as it is. Imagine what is going to happen if they put another 50 million leaches on the system.

4. No medical benifits for illegals. None, zero, ziltch. Unless it is life saving they don't get it. If it is life saving they get deported as soon as they are well enough to travel. We spend BILLIONS on medical and dental for illegals in this country and it has to stop.

5. Allow hospitals and dentist to refuse treatment. Of the 50 million (claimed) that don't have insurance there are only about 5 million (claimed) that don't have it because they can't afford it. There are already multiple programs to address the 5 million, we don't need more government controls.

6. Allow insurance companies to set their own policies on what they will and won't cover. As it is the feds force companies to cover all kinds of stuff that you and I don't really need. If an insurance company can tailer your insurance to your needs instead of one size fits all, it will allow them to lower the costs quite a bit. Don't know about you, but I don't need mamagrams.

7. Turn medicaid, medicare, social security and welfare over to the states (which constitutionally it is supposed to be) and let the states sort it out. This will give more control to the people and remove the federal red tape and waste that comes with it.

 

[Sidehiller]

Good points Ollie. It's just frustrating as hell to work hard and be punished for it. I don't see anything changing in the near future.

 

[Spur]

Sidehiller, your right the system is already socialized. Making it more socialized will not help the situation. As it stands right now Ollie's points are totally correct IMO.

I personally think we need to completely ban health care. The only reason it even exists is so that doctors and hospitals can charge big dollars for what they do. We need to let medical procedures be paid by the consumer as they go. This would allow free market to regulate cost. Doctors and hospitals can charge all they want, but if the only one available to pay the bill is the patient how long will they be able to charge 15K for a 30 minute procedure??? This will also eliminate you and I paying for someone else's health care. I know this would take a bite out of the medical industry for a while, but in the end it would be a better system. Doctors would still make a very good living, and would practice medicine because they love helping people as much as they love the money.

 

[MTdream]

Here are some stats for you...

• The U.S. tort system costs every man, woman and child in the U.S. a yearly a “tort tax” of $835—that’s $3,340 for a family of four! (The 2008 Update on U.S. Tort Cost Trends, Tillinghast-Tower Perrin, December 2008)
• American tort litigation is costing the nation almost 2% of gross domestic product annually. (The 2008 Update on U.S. Tort Cost Trends, Tillinghast-Tower Perrin, December 2008)
• In the past 50 years, direct U.S. tort costs have risen more than 100-fold while population has not even doubled and economic output has risen by only 37-fold. (U.S. Tort Liability Index 2008 Report, Pacific Research Institute, 2008)
• Excessive tort costs amount to about $589 billion – equivalent to a 7% tax on consumption or a 10% tax on wages. (U.S. Tort Liability Index 2008 Report, Pacific Research Institute, 2008)
• America’s tort system costs 30 times the National Institutes for Health’s budget to cure deadly diseases, 27 times federal spending on Homeland Security, and 13 times Department of Education funding. (Pacific Research Institute, Jackpot Justice: The True Cost of America’s Tort System, 2007)

 

[swampwater]

Bingo!! Just follow what has happened in Texas since they passed tort reform. Swampy

Here are some stats for you...

• The U.S. tort system costs every man, woman and child in the U.S. a yearly a “tort tax” of $835—that’s $3,340 for a family of four! (The 2008 Update on U.S. Tort Cost Trends, Tillinghast-Tower Perrin, December 2008)
• American tort litigation is costing the nation almost 2% of gross domestic product annually. (The 2008 Update on U.S. Tort Cost Trends, Tillinghast-Tower Perrin, December 2008)
• In the past 50 years, direct U.S. tort costs have risen more than 100-fold while population has not even doubled and economic output has risen by only 37-fold. (U.S. Tort Liability Index 2008 Report, Pacific Research Institute, 2008)
• Excessive tort costs amount to about $589 billion – equivalent to a 7% tax on consumption or a 10% tax on wages. (U.S. Tort Liability Index 2008 Report, Pacific Research Institute, 2008)
• America’s tort system costs 30 times the National Institutes for Health’s budget to cure deadly diseases, 27 times federal spending on Homeland Security, and 13 times Department of Education funding. (Pacific Research Institute, Jackpot Justice: The True Cost of America’s Tort System, 2007)

 

[FriscoProx]

Medicare has just under $40 trillion in unfunded liability. How much would insuring the rest of the nation be...$200t, $300t. Luckily I should have enough gold or silver coins to Medavac to India or Costa Rica for decent care.

 

[Ollie]

Insurance is already socialized. I got my bill for my kid's health insurance last week and it went up 70%. I can't afford the hit. They have never been sick, Aetna just raised it for no apparent reason. I was told I could put them on my work health insurance, they started deducting off my check to pay for it. I canceled the kids' insurance with Aetna. Today I was told I couldn't add them because there was no "life changing event". WTF? Now my kids have no coverage untill after labor day when I can try to find an affordable policy.
My point is this - doctors, hospitals, etc. care for a boat load of people who have no insurance and make below some arbitrary salary for the 9 kids they have, so they get free health care.
Now someone with insurance comes along and the hospital jacks up the price to make up for the ones with no insurance.
Next, you and I see our rates sky rocket to pay these prices.

I am a conservative. I hate socialism. It is already here.
Bottom line, I am already paying for health care for a lot of people.
Does anybody have a solution?

Here's a serious suggestion for your current problem.
Call your kids dentist before you do anything else. A lot of dental offices have their own pay plans that don't involve insurnce companies. You just pay a small monthly fee (similar to insurance companies), but it is a lot cheaper.

 

[POLZIN]

I have no solution to offer ! Its 0bvious that as bad as the insurance are giving the gov. more power over healthcare is the only thing that could make it worse.the way i see it if the gov. takes over or not its going to be the same greedy azzholes running things anyway . I cant see how adding politicians could possibly help!


Ollie,
I like that idea but its way to direct and effective! The gov wont let that go untaxed for long and that will be the end.

 

[Ollie]

more competition and less government control will do more to get the system under control than anything else, too bad it won't happen.

 

[snowmobiler]

I got my bill for my kid's health insurance last week and it went up 70%.

doesnt surprise me.greedy suckers.maybe because they are hearing
gov healthcare and screwing everybody they can,while they can?

 

[Wade]

Why do so many people want Government Health Care.

Because a percentage of the country, is mad that they can't "pursue their dreams".

Why go to college for 8 years, work for someone, bust your azz, miss out on life's adventures, work in an industry you don't like, just so you have money. And, healthcare.

If you want to just ski your life away, or run rivers, hang out with the rainbow children, or work for the poor, or do anything else, where money isn't forthcoming. Then you need government healthcare, to enable you to do that. Lots of people feel trapped by their lifestyle.

Another group, is those that feel embarrassed showing up to the emergency room, and having no way to pay for services. They want to feel like a paying customer, yet never have to commit to making something of their lives.

The insurance industry is definitely screwed up, and needs to be fixed. I think I know how to do it. I know a lot of people working 2 jobs, still can't afford healthcare. And, I know how welfare people live. But, a lot of this healthcare desire, is to enable laziness.

I'm really wondering, why I should work, if there's no benefit to it. Maybe, I can go become pursue my dream, of becoming a professional anti environmentalist.

 

[CleElum Sledhead]

I'm really wondering, why I should work, if there's no benefit to it. Maybe, I can go become and pursue my dream, of becoming a professional anti environmentalist.

I vote Wade in for this job.

And I will donate his first day or two of wages if some others will cover the other days.

 

[snowmobiler]

i can afford to buy his lunch someday

 

[Rizzo]

Theres a better solution.... Move to Canada...LOL.. Free health care for everyone. We get taxed up the ying yang but health care if free. Actually I wish they would bring in private care up here so we could get better service. I am very lucky and have many doctors who are good friends and its amazing how much it pays to know someone. I recently had my appendix rupture. Got a ride to the hospital with my buddy is one of the ER Dr's. Got admitted and was in a bed and on morphine within 20 mins of getting to the hospital. Had 4 Dr's in the room all of whom were friends and happened to be working that day. I hear horror stories of people waiting 8 and 10 hours or more for major problems. The waiting lists for certain surgury's up here can be years. If I want to pay I can go to the good old USA and have it done the next day.

 

[Trenchmaster]

Rizzo it's funny how you say in one sentence that we get taxed up the ying yang but health care is free. I'm no expert on health care but I would rather get sick here than in the USA. What happens to you Americans if you get sick and your private insurance company decides it is not going to cover you? There are allot of things that make me envious of Americans but their health care system is not one of them.

 

[Ollie]

Open the insurance buisness up, stop the reginal control and let people shop all over the country for insurance instead of only being given access to a few major companies.

Allow people and buisnesses to form groups and shop around for better rates.

There are a lot of things that can be done to make health care more affordable and none of it has to do with government control. The more government gets involved, the more expensive it gets.

 

[Wade]

Rizzo it's funny how you say in one sentence that we get taxed up the ying yang but health care is free. I'm no expert on health care but I would rather get sick here than in the USA. What happens to you Americans if you get sick and your private insurance company decides it is not going to cover you? There are allot of things that make me envious of Americans but their health care system is not one of them.

Actually, our health care is already socialized. If you show up to a hospital, they have to take you in. If you can't pay, they find out why you can't pay. If it's because you lost your job, they will sneak out, and buy you cobra insurance, and pay for it themselves, so that they get reimbursed some of their money, from the government.

The people that are hurting, are the working poor. they work, don't have benefits, but can't afford health insurance. Then they go to the hospital, and loss everything they have, and file bankruptcy. Which is a whole different subject. From what I can tell, Obama care, doesn't fix that. It will only apply to the lazy, and the poorest, of the working poor.

The problem in the US is, hospitals are allowed to charge people for service they didn't receive. As a makeup for the 3 people that couldn't pay. It's hidden socialized medicine. Make it illegal to charge people for service they didn't receive, and make it legal to boot people out, that can't pay. Then the hospitals have no excuse to charge such high prices. Then, even the uninsured might be able to afford a hospital visit. Oh, and once you get rid of those that can't pay, bet you'll see a huge decrease in liability lawsuits.

Problem is, you have to build more government ran hospitals, to take in those that can't pay. But at least, you can actually track the cost of socialized healthcare.

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

The government has a lousy track record when it comes to running things best left to the private sector.

The Postal Service (which at the time it was created made perfect sense) moves less freight at a higher cost than either UPS or FedEx

AMTRAK is the WORST run railroad in the country

Social Security is a PONZI SCHEME

Medicare is a PONZI SCHEME

The VA system is an excellent example of the sort of dogs**t 3rd world "care" the whole country will end up with.

Ollie's list is outstanding but I would add Portability to it. Currently, an insurance co. has to write an individual policy for each state it wants to do business in. This keeps smaller companies from playing in bigger markets and creates a bunch of mini-monopolies. Portability allows YOU the customer to buy your insurance from anyone which creates more competition, and as we all know competition almost always means better service at a lower price.

Boys this whole heathcare deal is about 2 things. Increasing the power of the Left by making us utterly dependant on the government.

We have the best medical care in the world. Everyone who can afford it gets heart surgery, and cancer treatment in the US. The problem is not quality (except for the Govt run VA) it's access

Yes, parts of the system needs fixing, so lets force our elected reps to fix what's broke and leave what works alone, but let us never forget that the things that piss us off about insurance and medicine costs are BECAUSE the govt messed with it in the first place.

In sledder terms...Do you take your sled back to the guy who screwed up your pre-season tune up and let him rebuild your motor?? If he's the only guy in town, then yes, but you watch him like a HAWK!!

 

[Ollie]

bo keeps telling us that there are billions of dollars in fraud and waste in medicaid and medicare.
If that's true, fix it.
Until such time as the government proves to me that they can actually run a social program effectively and efficiently there is no way I am going to let em run even more.

That's like taking your car in for repairs and the mechanic messes it up, not once, not twice, but over 15 times. Then he turns and tells you that you should let him completely rebuilt the whole car, and you have to pay for the whole job.
You gonna let em?