If so, are you using the closed loop or open loop setup? I am definitely going geothermal, just cannot decide which way to go. I do have a ditch to dump the water into, but the thought of using 8-12,000 gallons of water a day with the open loop is against my better judgement. Thinking of sticking with the closed loop.
Who's heating/cooling with geothermal?
- Thread starter highmark18
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I am Building a House right now and it looks like I am going Geo as well. From all the research I have done ( Many Hr's ) The Closed loop is a far better way to go. I have ledge so I will be drilling 2 well's around 350 feet deep instead of the trenches witch are a cheaper way to go.
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buck50
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you only need 2 wells??????????? how big is your place?????? for my house i'm building, which is around 5000 square ft, which includes a big AZZ garage, i was told i would need 6 wells!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by the way RLG, how is that house coming along???
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....I hope I am right!!!......I have to dif places doing a heat loss on my plans, One of them told me on the Phone based on what I told him he was guessin 2 wells about that deep, We will see next week when ge has time to get "real" #'s on it. It is comming along good, All the backfilling is done and I also have the basement and Garage (9 foot fiil in garage) done, I have the power, Phone and driveway sencer contuites bured and into the basement. I am putting my meter in the woods, I put a new hole into the silo under my Transformer and ran conduite from there to where I am biulding the meter tower and I ran from there under ground into the basement so you will not see any crap on the house. Buddy is helping me this weekend to mount a panel in the basement and at the tower so I should have power at the house when the builder shows up in about 2 weeks.Where you at??
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buck50
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NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! got the slab all backfilled and ready for the plumber to come in and lay down his pipes and drains before we pour the slab!!! power is to the house(underground of course) and on a temporary pole. the well is dug(25 gpm!!!!!6
Where you at??
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). most of my driveway isin, just working on expanding the parking at the house now, and getting the area where my septic field is going ready!!!!!!!!! so far, coming along pretty much too plan and timetable!!!!! hopefully it stays that way!I've had a closed loop geothermal system since about 1984. 6 x 150' wells. Only problem I've had is we started with 3 x 300' wells and they blocked off within weeks. THEN the jacka** putting the system in says "Oh! We had the same problem about 2 blocks away. Underground stream flows thru here and the flow is strong enough to fold over the plastic pipe." Duh! Redrilled with more shorter wells and been fine since.
At that time I got lots of rebates and 0% loans from the state and electric company. Has easily paid for itself. I'm in the Soux Falls, SD area. I think the farther north you get and the farther south you get the slower payback. You may need more wells or flow as you move north. If we get several days in a row of never getting above 0F I'll usually have to kick over to pure electric for a while because the ground can't draw the colds away fast enough and therefore the system can't keep up - runs constantly but house slowly gets colder.
Geothermal is the only way to go in my opinion.
At that time I got lots of rebates and 0% loans from the state and electric company. Has easily paid for itself. I'm in the Soux Falls, SD area. I think the farther north you get and the farther south you get the slower payback. You may need more wells or flow as you move north. If we get several days in a row of never getting above 0F I'll usually have to kick over to pure electric for a while because the ground can't draw the colds away fast enough and therefore the system can't keep up - runs constantly but house slowly gets colder.
Geothermal is the only way to go in my opinion.
vdo1948, I wonder how efficient your system is compared to the new ones, From what I know the NEW ones are amazing!! 1 watt = 5.2 co, just 7 years ago it was 1 watt = 3.8 co. Also the water Funace (the best IMO ) can produce 123deg water now. I have talked to 3 people that have it and the el bill is only up $100 / $150 on the coldes month so you can't lose. They all love it and one guy built a new house 6 years ago and went Geo agin so It must work.
There are still rebates out there, I know of at least $3,000 so far that I can get and Hear I may be able to get another 2 to 3K.
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There are still rebates out there, I know of at least $3,000 so far that I can get and Hear I may be able to get another 2 to 3K.
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you will have nothing but headaches for sure. i have mainly dealt with pump and dump. i have changed numerous pumps and tanks out for poeple and send them $2500 bill for a system only 5 to 10 yrs old. florida heat pump is the brand that is sold hear and if you have a service man like we have here they is no service period. I haven't found one person that would have another system like it again.
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anziconda
Well-known member
Solar??
Hey there...I'm a plumber in Bozeman Mt. With the recent cost of energy the geothermal is starting to take off in our area. Haven't heard anything good or bad about them yet. Another thing that we are starting to do is solar supplemented heat systems. I'll be installing my first system for a local hotel soon. Have a buddy that installed it on his bosses shop and it has worked well so far. Good luck.
Hey there...I'm a plumber in Bozeman Mt. With the recent cost of energy the geothermal is starting to take off in our area. Haven't heard anything good or bad about them yet. Another thing that we are starting to do is solar supplemented heat systems. I'll be installing my first system for a local hotel soon. Have a buddy that installed it on his bosses shop and it has worked well so far. Good luck.
closed loop. 8 years and no problems, and the heating bill is way better then when we had propane
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Where you at??
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Just make sure your conduit run into the basement is 15' or less. I put my panels in a mechanical room in the center of the basement with the intent of installing the meter base on my well house so as not to have any boxes attached to the house. Found out after I'd wired the entire house that since the run was over 15', I had to have a service disconnect where the power enters the house.
I ended up with a $1200 meter head/service disconnect combo attached to the front corner of the house that's about 3'x3'x8". At least I was able to paint it. Guess I should have studied the code book a little closer.
geo rules of thumb
yes, I can shed some light and will.
first the answer to the question--- CLOSED SYSTEM... less maint. for starters.
With Geothermal, generally in our area (SD) its sized for the cooling load rather than heating. Many things can play a factor in its payback and customer satisfaction.
1. location- in town with high electric/gas rates its very attractive, out of town with low electric rates it will take a bit more to get ROI
2. Wells- Don't let anyone jive you here (life blood of the system) 99% of installers use a rule of one well per ton of equip. 3ton=3 wells. we sell standard lengths of wells @ 210 I say again 210 its is the most efficient depth in our area... deeper may cause better heating but lack the cooling, and shallower just the opposite. (actually trench loops are supposed to be the most efficient, but not the norm).... Also be carefull who does these wells, and antifreeze in the system is crucial (correct ration) and also thermo conductivity of grout put in the well will greatly increase/decrease its efficiency.
3. equip- Again, often sized for the cooling size it will ensure comfort in the summer, as you don't have supplement cooling other than other units. But with heating you can (and often will as stated earlier) use your electric strip heat when its get brass monkey cold for awhile. Keep in mind you can do many things with a geo unit ranging from just simple heating and cooling to water to water systems,,,,meaning all your infloor heat, domestic hot water, swimming pools heck many options here.
I have known people that take the leap and are very happy and see extreme savings and others will take longer to get the ROI...
Some name brand gas/LP units are saying these new 20+seer and 95% effic units are just as good.... but the deal is,,,, EVEN IF SO. you still don't fork over your wallet every month for the fuel as the water is just being recycled in a geo unit....
well sorry about rambling,,,, can field other questions if needed.....
yes, I can shed some light and will.
first the answer to the question--- CLOSED SYSTEM... less maint. for starters.
With Geothermal, generally in our area (SD) its sized for the cooling load rather than heating. Many things can play a factor in its payback and customer satisfaction.
1. location- in town with high electric/gas rates its very attractive, out of town with low electric rates it will take a bit more to get ROI
2. Wells- Don't let anyone jive you here (life blood of the system) 99% of installers use a rule of one well per ton of equip. 3ton=3 wells. we sell standard lengths of wells @ 210 I say again 210 its is the most efficient depth in our area... deeper may cause better heating but lack the cooling, and shallower just the opposite. (actually trench loops are supposed to be the most efficient, but not the norm).... Also be carefull who does these wells, and antifreeze in the system is crucial (correct ration) and also thermo conductivity of grout put in the well will greatly increase/decrease its efficiency.
3. equip- Again, often sized for the cooling size it will ensure comfort in the summer, as you don't have supplement cooling other than other units. But with heating you can (and often will as stated earlier) use your electric strip heat when its get brass monkey cold for awhile. Keep in mind you can do many things with a geo unit ranging from just simple heating and cooling to water to water systems,,,,meaning all your infloor heat, domestic hot water, swimming pools heck many options here.
I have known people that take the leap and are very happy and see extreme savings and others will take longer to get the ROI...
Some name brand gas/LP units are saying these new 20+seer and 95% effic units are just as good.... but the deal is,,,, EVEN IF SO
. you still don't fork over your wallet every month for the fuel as the water is just being recycled in a geo unit.... well sorry about rambling,,,, can field other questions if needed.....
My furnace died 2 years ago and I replaced it with an air to air heat pump. For the price(about $6500 installed) it has been well worth it. I have a 2500 sq. ft brick house and the electric bills averaged last year at about $125/mo.
Closed loop geo would be the best, but for the money, the air to air is well worth it.
Good luck!
Ditto on the air to air.
We like ours.
If we were building new I would go geothermal, but for existing structures the air to air will likely make more sense.
Does anyone know of an efficiant 3 ton water to water heat pump at a resonable price.I have 4000' horizontal system being set up(lines are in).
yes, I can shed some light and will.
first the answer to the question--- CLOSED SYSTEM... less maint. for starters.
With Geothermal, generally in our area (SD) its sized for the cooling load rather than heating. Many things can play a factor in its payback and customer satisfaction.
1. location- in town with high electric/gas rates its very attractive, out of town with low electric rates it will take a bit more to get ROI
2. Wells- Don't let anyone jive you here (life blood of the system) 99% of installers use a rule of one well per ton of equip. 3ton=3 wells. we sell standard lengths of wells @ 210 I say again 210 its is the most efficient depth in our area... deeper may cause better heating but lack the cooling, and shallower just the opposite. (actually trench loops are supposed to be the most efficient, but not the norm).... Also be carefull who does these wells, and antifreeze in the system is crucial (correct ration) and also thermo conductivity of grout put in the well will greatly increase/decrease its efficiency.
3. equip- Again, often sized for the cooling size it will ensure comfort in the summer, as you don't have supplement cooling other than other units. But with heating you can (and often will as stated earlier) use your electric strip heat when its get brass monkey cold for awhile. Keep in mind you can do many things with a geo unit ranging from just simple heating and cooling to water to water systems,,,,meaning all your infloor heat, domestic hot water, swimming pools heck many options here.
I have known people that take the leap and are very happy and see extreme savings and others will take longer to get the ROI...
Some name brand gas/LP units are saying these new 20+seer and 95% effic units are just as good.... but the deal is,,,, EVEN IF SO
well sorry about rambling,,,, can field other questions if needed.....
Do you have any insight on the open loop systems? My geothermal contractor is telling me I have the ideal location for one, but want to know if it is something I should pursue-going to break ground in the next 4-6 weeks...
what is your application, and why does your contractor think it is the perfect spot.
- where would you get the water? it can't be free can it? and if so what about in the future if somehow you run into a discharge issue, like many cities are when flushing hydrants, or storm sewer drainage. You could be faced with either fines, or hoops to jump through to make it meet EPA stds.
I sit here trying to find a spot we have ever sold a open loop system and we haven't. not even in places with private lakes. We have seen people string coils of loops in the water.. (sink a bunch of coils of pipe) and use the water of the lake to heat and cool. Seems to work pretty good.
interested in hearing your contractors selling points.
- where would you get the water? it can't be free can it? and if so what about in the future if somehow you run into a discharge issue, like many cities are when flushing hydrants, or storm sewer drainage. You could be faced with either fines, or hoops to jump through to make it meet EPA stds.
I sit here trying to find a spot we have ever sold a open loop system and we haven't. not even in places with private lakes. We have seen people string coils of loops in the water.. (sink a bunch of coils of pipe) and use the water of the lake to heat and cool. Seems to work pretty good.
interested in hearing your contractors selling points.
I will try and give you as much info as I can.
Rural wooded sloped lot, all oak trees. My main concern is I do not want to excavate to put the coil system in, thus damaging some of the trees. Would use well water, and discharge it into a drainage ditch on the backside of the property. This ditch was dug years ago, and runs the whole mile, approx. 4 feet deep w/water all year. The ditch is adjacent to wetlands. Checked with DNR, and I do not need any type of permit and there are no regualtions unless you pump over 5 million gallons per year. Went to Soil and Water yesterday since they regulate the wetlands, they said there are no regulations regarding putting water into the wetlands, only taking it out. So no problems there. Contractor mentioned that it was the ideal spot just because the situation I have w/the trees and having the availability of the ditch to dump the water back into. It would be a 3 ton forced air heat pump w/a Cupro Nickel Well Water Coil, along with a 3 ton Ultra Hydronic pump w/ Cupro Nickel Well Water Coil for the floor heat.
There are 2 guys 15 miles south of here that have the open loop system, and they cannot say enough good things about them. What am I missing?
Rural wooded sloped lot, all oak trees. My main concern is I do not want to excavate to put the coil system in, thus damaging some of the trees. Would use well water, and discharge it into a drainage ditch on the backside of the property. This ditch was dug years ago, and runs the whole mile, approx. 4 feet deep w/water all year. The ditch is adjacent to wetlands. Checked with DNR, and I do not need any type of permit and there are no regualtions unless you pump over 5 million gallons per year. Went to Soil and Water yesterday since they regulate the wetlands, they said there are no regulations regarding putting water into the wetlands, only taking it out. So no problems there. Contractor mentioned that it was the ideal spot just because the situation I have w/the trees and having the availability of the ditch to dump the water back into. It would be a 3 ton forced air heat pump w/a Cupro Nickel Well Water Coil, along with a 3 ton Ultra Hydronic pump w/ Cupro Nickel Well Water Coil for the floor heat.
There are 2 guys 15 miles south of here that have the open loop system, and they cannot say enough good things about them. What am I missing?
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