I think the big thing to look at as far as oil goes.. When its 40 below will your oil still get pumped into the engine?? Ive heard the non-synthetic oils dont flow as well in the cold.
Which oil is the best?
- Thread starter badbowtie
- Start date
found that on anting with APV valves that anything other than APV two stoke oil tends to put a ton of carbon on your valves and limits performance.
This horse is dead, but I'll take a swing anyway... I pretty much concur that the only oil that will do you wrong is NO oil. I got tired of paying $40 a gallon for Cat APV oil, and started using Yamalube, which is at least semi-synthetic. I did notice that I had to clean the power valves a lot more often, and that they're carboned up pretty good... Just got done tearing it down to check the pistons/rings. Nothing worth talking about in terms of wear.
I switched to Amsoil Intimidator late last year because I am tired of cleaning the power valves so often, and it was recommended by several on here... Just cleaned the power valves up this year... going to see what this does. I tossed the bottle, but if I find out it doesn't say "low ash", I'm draining it out and finding something that does... I hate cleaning the power valves, and never had any problem with APV oil from Cat. I'll pay for it if I have to...
C
I switched to Amsoil Intimidator late last year because I am tired of cleaning the power valves so often, and it was recommended by several on here... Just cleaned the power valves up this year... going to see what this does. I tossed the bottle, but if I find out it doesn't say "low ash", I'm draining it out and finding something that does... I hate cleaning the power valves, and never had any problem with APV oil from Cat. I'll pay for it if I have to...
C
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W
wyoscott
New member
Our group (mostly skidoo) use Citgo semi synthetic $11.79/gal @ Fleetfarm. Higher European oil ratings than tcw3 I think Citgo is owned by Caesar Chavez but a buck is a buck This oil states its recommended for all the manufacturers. Don't know, but started using it with two kids sleds to fill with oil as well as mine and no problems. . Probably should shut up, watch it go to $20/gal now
R
Ron
ACCOUNT CLOSED
TC-W3 is a marine rating not recommended for ATV's & snowmobiles-by definition.
Edit:The NMMA TCW3 standard was designed by the various manufacturers of outboard motors (Mercury, OMC, Yamaha etc.). These manufacturers do not utilize power valves, limit their max rpms to about 6800 and have excessive cooking capacity. They also must be able to operate at lower rpms for long periods of time without oil fouling the spark plugs. Although it’s true the performance of this type engine has increased in the last several years, the peak engine temperatures are still relatively low. The use of synthetic base oil in TCW# formulations has extended the useful range of these oils; their detergent system (Ashless) is designed for lower operating conditions. This is one of the reasons Bombardier specifically prohibits the use of these oils in their Rotax engines. The API API-TC standard was developed for Air-cooled, high rpm, high output 2-stroke engines operating under severe load conditions. Although this standard is no longer reviewed and updated since 1993 b the API, it still is in effect today. This standard most accurately addresses the condition Rotax and 2-stroke racing motorcycles and snowmobiles operate under. Almost all these oils are formulated with synthetic or synthetic blend base oils and all use a low ash type detergent. If you walk into a store that handles a variety of 2-stroke oils, it is relatively easy to find TCW3 certified oil. The manufacturer proudly displays that certification on each container. API-TC certified oils, on the other hand, are very difficult to find. There are two main reasons for this. First, many small API-TC oil manufacturers can’t or won’t spend the money (about $75,000) for the testing and certification process. Second, most engines requiring API-TC oils are for racing applications (Motocrossers and Crosscountry motorcycles) and don’t offer warranties with their engines anyway. The owner/operators of these machines know what oils work and don’t work. They do not need the API-TC certification on the bottle to help them decide what oil to use. There are many really good API-TC type oils on the market that have never been certified as such. Bombardier/Rotax is the only manufacturer that API-TC certified oils. The TCW3 market is about 10 times the size of the API-TC market. Outboard motor manufacturers require the use of TCW3 certified oils to maintain their warranty. With this great volume in oil sales at stake, it’s easy to see why TCW3 manufacturers can afford to certify their oils.
Rotax’s Position on What Oil to use
As we all know, Bombardier requires that an API-TC oil be used in their engines. Most other PWC manufacturers allow the use of TCW3 in their engines. So, what’s the difference? A PWC is a PWC, right? No, it’s not! Rotax marine engines evolved from their very successful snowmobile and motorcycle racing designs. These engines produce more power/cc than any other PWC manufacturer’s engine. Rotax designs these engines to work harder and run hotter than other brands. They simply need more protection than TCW3 oils can give. Those that use TCW3 oils are risking high temp. Seizure if the engine cooling system plugs or and internal fuel filter plugs (lean condition). These things may not happen very often, but when they do, it’s better to have a little extra protection that only a TI-TC oil can give.
Edit:The NMMA TCW3 standard was designed by the various manufacturers of outboard motors (Mercury, OMC, Yamaha etc.). These manufacturers do not utilize power valves, limit their max rpms to about 6800 and have excessive cooking capacity. They also must be able to operate at lower rpms for long periods of time without oil fouling the spark plugs. Although it’s true the performance of this type engine has increased in the last several years, the peak engine temperatures are still relatively low. The use of synthetic base oil in TCW# formulations has extended the useful range of these oils; their detergent system (Ashless) is designed for lower operating conditions. This is one of the reasons Bombardier specifically prohibits the use of these oils in their Rotax engines. The API API-TC standard was developed for Air-cooled, high rpm, high output 2-stroke engines operating under severe load conditions. Although this standard is no longer reviewed and updated since 1993 b the API, it still is in effect today. This standard most accurately addresses the condition Rotax and 2-stroke racing motorcycles and snowmobiles operate under. Almost all these oils are formulated with synthetic or synthetic blend base oils and all use a low ash type detergent. If you walk into a store that handles a variety of 2-stroke oils, it is relatively easy to find TCW3 certified oil. The manufacturer proudly displays that certification on each container. API-TC certified oils, on the other hand, are very difficult to find. There are two main reasons for this. First, many small API-TC oil manufacturers can’t or won’t spend the money (about $75,000) for the testing and certification process. Second, most engines requiring API-TC oils are for racing applications (Motocrossers and Crosscountry motorcycles) and don’t offer warranties with their engines anyway. The owner/operators of these machines know what oils work and don’t work. They do not need the API-TC certification on the bottle to help them decide what oil to use. There are many really good API-TC type oils on the market that have never been certified as such. Bombardier/Rotax is the only manufacturer that API-TC certified oils. The TCW3 market is about 10 times the size of the API-TC market. Outboard motor manufacturers require the use of TCW3 certified oils to maintain their warranty. With this great volume in oil sales at stake, it’s easy to see why TCW3 manufacturers can afford to certify their oils.
Rotax’s Position on What Oil to use
As we all know, Bombardier requires that an API-TC oil be used in their engines. Most other PWC manufacturers allow the use of TCW3 in their engines. So, what’s the difference? A PWC is a PWC, right? No, it’s not! Rotax marine engines evolved from their very successful snowmobile and motorcycle racing designs. These engines produce more power/cc than any other PWC manufacturer’s engine. Rotax designs these engines to work harder and run hotter than other brands. They simply need more protection than TCW3 oils can give. Those that use TCW3 oils are risking high temp. Seizure if the engine cooling system plugs or and internal fuel filter plugs (lean condition). These things may not happen very often, but when they do, it’s better to have a little extra protection that only a TI-TC oil can give.
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Amsoil. They put out a pretty nice study on wear on a Stihl chainsaw after being run for x amount of hours mixed a 100:1 and then compared to the same hours using standard oils at the called for mix ratio. Blew them away. I have a small lawn maintenance company and run several small 2 stroke motors (truck and all burning about $300.00 in fuel a week) and can tell you there is a difference even in the force needed to pull the recoil cord when starting! let alone how clean it burns and smell.
Torco Full syn
Torco Full syn is what i use
Torco Full syn is what i use
oil
AMSOIL intimidator for me. best oil for any sled with exhaust valves IMO
AMSOIL intimidator for me. best oil for any sled with exhaust valves IMO
i dont know if it is the best but i run Lucas semi syn race oil
amsoil is my second choice
amsoil is my second choice
KY, keeps the important parts lubed , with just the right amount of friction.
oil
ok ok so it seams that everybody has there oil of choice and thats good.
for some one that has used it all from mineral to synthetic oil the bigest
thing is wear. with sleds we used them in cold weather if your oil u use
does not have a low pour point (cold temperature fluidity) then u will have
oil as thick as gear lube in your motor at start up.in which will cause wear to start in and then its all down hill from there. yes of course other things can
go wrong. synthetics controls the wear to a min. if a seal goes out it causes wear,oil pump goes out can cause wear. or how about just bad cranks from
the manufacture. check the data first before u pick a oil. to use.
oh by the way i use AMSOILfor over eight of my sixteen years of sleding never thing wrong with the motors in my cars ,trucks, bikes and sleds
one year oil changes the cars and truck can't beat that!!!!
in the sleds i use DOMINATOR it has anti-friction and anti-scuff additives and a low pour point of -51 F
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g1985.pdf
The info on interceptor a low pour point of -58F
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g1955.pdf
ok ok so it seams that everybody has there oil of choice and thats good.
for some one that has used it all from mineral to synthetic oil the bigest
thing is wear. with sleds we used them in cold weather if your oil u use
does not have a low pour point (cold temperature fluidity) then u will have
oil as thick as gear lube in your motor at start up.in which will cause wear to start in and then its all down hill from there. yes of course other things can
go wrong. synthetics controls the wear to a min. if a seal goes out it causes wear,oil pump goes out can cause wear. or how about just bad cranks from
the manufacture. check the data first before u pick a oil. to use.
oh by the way i use AMSOILfor over eight of my sixteen years of sleding never thing wrong with the motors in my cars ,trucks, bikes and sleds
one year oil changes the cars and truck can't beat that!!!!
in the sleds i use DOMINATOR it has anti-friction and anti-scuff additives and a low pour point of -51 F
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g1985.pdf
The info on interceptor a low pour point of -58F
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g1955.pdf
torco
Has anyone tried using the torco spo synthetic blend? bottle looks like this.
I found the amsoil isn't the greatest to run.
Has anyone tried using the torco spo synthetic blend? bottle looks like this.
I found the amsoil isn't the greatest to run.
Im not sure amsoil is the way to go. I ran some in my 2002 summit 800 and it coagulated/became super lumpy, even though it was brand new oil. The coagulation ended up blowing up my motor in the end.
Since my motor blew and the new motor was put into the sled, I have been running the torco spo synthetic blend and it burns cleaner, doesnt leave an oil residue on the sled or leak, and I have not experienced any horsepower loss like I did with the amsoil!
H
hatchers
Well-known member
And more then most shop a Wal-Mart....does that mean i would buy a sled from wal-mart, no, but most would
anywho....redline syn for sleds who care about
We have used Amsoil Dominator with excellent results.
Currently though it is nothing but ACE Outboard oil in the turbo sled Its loving it!
Jake
Currently though it is nothing but ACE Outboard oil in the turbo sled
Its loving it!Jake
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