Which 2013 pro parts are safe to powder coat?

[Rick!]

What education and/or experience do you have with materials?
To me you sound like you are scrambling at best to come up with a reason that your parts failed. I can run the analysis on a bar knapkin for you over a warm high life if you need validation. 400F will not do anything to the temper or strength of the material. Why yes I do have a materials and a mechanical engineering degree. Oh and yes I do submit to the FAA all procedures and practices of powder coating sensitive aircraft parts that I do at work. By the way it is an approved process by the FAA, state department and federal offices. It is also listed in the ASTM catolge. Please stop providing individuals with wrong information about powder coating because you had a bad experience.

Thanks in advance

Wow, your degree has a bigger dick than anyone else's degree? I believe you have forged new ground on the Snowest forum.

When I used to work on planes, the airframe mfr had the most say in determining a proper repair. If the AMM didn't have the repair listed, then you would create one and the company DER would authorize it if the airframe mfr took too long to respond. Help us out a little bit and point out where in the FAA regs it shows how to powder coat aluminum alloys and what processes are allowed and not allowed. I did ICR's 5 minute Google in the FAA and I'm not any smarter right now.

I remember a lot of DP30 and spray guns but I don't remember a powder coat paint oven at NWA.

If it was me, I'd do some testing and make my own dater.

 

[AKtoad]

Sorry I was trying to hang my education out there but it is very helpfull. I see FAA inspectors on a weekly basis to check our oven controls, chemical titration log book and over all procedure. In the end if you feel it is wrong to coat parts then don't do it. I just dont understand how people become experts on topics that they have never been taught the basics to even grasp the process. Like I said if you don't want to coat parts then don't but don't make wild accusations about a process you don't fully understand.

 

[LoudHandle]

Sorry I was trying to hang my education out there but it is very helpfull. I see FAA inspectors on a weekly basis to check our oven controls, chemical titration log book and over all procedure. In the end if you feel it is wrong to coat parts then don't do it. I just dont understand how people become experts on topics that they have never been taught the basics to even grasp the process. Like I said if you don't want to coat parts then don't but don't make wild accusations about a process you don't fully understand.

You are right I do not own a powder coating business, nor do I rub shoulders with FAA inspectors, but I have removed enough of the T-6 temper in 6061 and other high end aluminum alloys in an oven at 300 degrees F to bend / form it without the normal fracturing that occurs at the T6 state. Powder or no powder does not make any difference. If it is a heat treated aluminum alloy and you heat it to 300 degrees F, you are loosing strength / temper regardless of what the FAA or your biased views have led you into believing. I have real world confirmation for my knowledge and convictions. I hope you have a good bond secured to backup your Powder coating business, and suggest you submit some samples for independent confirmation. I think the results will surprise you, regardless of your degrees.

 

[die hard poo]

I will add to the list of people with great success in powder coating parts. Done it to every pro I have owned including my 13 arms, running boards, rails, etc. My PC guy said he runs his oven around 375* for 30 min if I remember correctly. No bent rails. But I do add the assault cross brace in the middle of the rails. But I do appreciate LH and MH input

 

[cateye5312]

If you read the bonding agent specs it is good to a max temp of 400 degrees which is below max temp in the typical powdercoating process so if any parts are bonded they will soften and come apart. I had my rails, bumper sides, spindles, and running boards all powdercoated. My powdercoater and I went over the parts and I pointed out the bonding agent and told him he would ruin the part and it would be on his head if he used the 400 degree setting so he did either 300 or 340 degrees (can't remember which). The parts look excellent and the gob of bonding agent that I took a picture of before the process had not moved or deformed. Now I haven't had the parts tested to see if I took any of the temper out but since I don't jump my sled much I'm going to say I'm safe until I break or bend it. Innocence is bliss.

That said, I will paint and vinyl wrap the tunnel on my 2014 because I am too lazy to take it all apart. But I will probably powdercoat the spindles, seat support, running boards and bumper sides.

I appreciate all the passion you guys have and thanks for some great information, some of which I am obviously ignoring at my own risk.

 

[winter brew]

Wow, lots of good info on here. I've had tons of sled parts PCoated over the years....suspension parts, rails, handlebars, risers.....pretty much everything. Also had suspension parts chrome plated. I've never had a problem and the parts lasted for many years through multiple owners and still looked good.
I don't doubt that overheating some parts may change their characteristics, but I guess it depends on how overkill or marginal the part is to begin with. The mfr's powdercoat many parts so they must be confident in the process.
It's good to be educated and know the risks, thanks to those that share their knowledge!

 

[AKtoad]

You are right I do not own a powder coating business, nor do I rub shoulders with FAA inspectors, but I have removed enough of the T-6 temper in 6061 and other high end aluminum alloys in an oven at 300 degrees F to bend / form it without the normal fracturing that occurs at the T6 state. Powder or no powder does not make any difference. If it is a heat treated aluminum alloy and you heat it to 300 degrees F, you are loosing strength / temper regardless of what the FAA or your biased views have led you into believing. I have real world confirmation for my knowledge and convictions. I hope you have a good bond secured to backup your Powder coating business, and suggest you submit some samples for independent confirmation. I think the results will surprise you, regardless of your degrees.

I guess the 8,000 plus hours of hands on experience with materials and powder coating is worthless because you did a google search. The company I am involved with is almost 20 years old and every one there is still learning every new procedure and reads as many articles as possible that NACE publishes. Do we know it all? No, but no one does. After I thought about a minute I think there should be a crusade to shut down coating company's because this guy with zero education or experience did a google search and decided its unsafe.

And I thought you were done posting in this thread? Well I am

 

[LoudHandle]

I guess the 8,000 plus hours of hands on experience with materials and powder coating is worthless because you did a google search. The company I am involved with is almost 20 years old and every one there is still learning every new procedure and reads as many articles as possible that NACE publishes. Do we know it all? No, but no one does. After I thought about a minute I think there should be a crusade to shut down coating company's because this guy with zero education or experience did a google search and decided its unsafe.

And I thought you were done posting in this thread? Well I am

I did not comment on here to get into a dick measuring contest with you or anybody else, and mis-representing my experience to puff out your chest and make yourself look more intelligent in my opinion has the opposite effect. I never down played your experience or education, I merely suggested you likely misapplied your knowledge or made some assumptions that increased your profits at the expense of the high grade aluminum alloys strength. I also based none of my convictions on a Google search, that contribution was likely from a customer of yours. Who has bought into your misrepresentation of the facts (also my opinion based on my real world experience, I understand you feel differently and that is your prerogative).

Have I run powder coated aluminum parts? Yes I have, did they hold up? Yes they did, BUT I know the Engineer that fabricated them and he specified the post weld heat treatment to take into account the temp and bake time of the powder coat, so as to still maintain a minimum of the T-6 temper state. I have sheared multiple heat treated chromoly spindles with those aluminum trailing arms and they are still perfect.

It can be done, but you and most other powder coaters will not go to that expense to ensure you do not de-temper the part.

FYI, I do not fly from Valdez to Anchorage, and no member of my family ever will.

My convictions are my convictions and you puffing your chest out and spewing acronyms will not change that. I am not here to offend, merely stating the reasons I would not Powder any high grade heat treatable aluminum alloys without doing my homework.

You the readers can form your own decisions.

 

[Dirty Steve]

Okay, so powder coating is bad , er good....what about hard anodizing?

 

[Rick!]

Okay, so powder coating is bad , er good....what about hard anodizing?

Good: Pretty, wear resistant.

Bad: Increases notch sensitivity in 7000 series alloys, dyes are typically not UV resistant, cannot become internet expert on it in 5 minutes or less.

 

[deschutes]

I think the summary of all this is that you can powder coat aluminum, but you can also have issues if not done the correct way.

I learned this first-hand recently. I have a good coater I have used for sled parts, truck wheels, bike parts, etc. Things have always turned out perfect. I had them do the seat bracket on a 13 Pro this fall. It came back so tweaked the seat wouldn't go on correctly. The crazy part was that it was the thicker mount material that was the worst. The tubing seemed ok, but who knows what unseen damage occurred. I made the decision at that point to shy away from aluminum powder coating.

 

[Dirty Steve]

Good: Pretty, wear resistant.

Bad: Increases notch sensitivity in 7000 series alloys, dyes are typically not UV resistant, cannot become internet expert on it in 5 minutes or less.

What is notch sensitivity?

 

[mountainhorse]

Stress-riser/fracture issues as a simple explanation.... fractures that can radiate from a defect or design flaw... like square corners without radius... or a nick/dent/cut in the part.

Essentially what he is saying that if there is a defect in the design, or damage occurs... The hard ano could make the part "sensitive" to that problem... like taking a Gouge out of the rail with a broken/twisted scratcher or not using proper radaii (radius of the corner) in the design of a cutout. Most Cad programs have modules to evalutate this in a FEA program (finite element analysis)

7000 series... As in the 7129 in the rails on the Poo's.