What would you buy???

[Holomis International]

Ok fella's after talking to a local fellow here in Vernon, that in his own words, bleeds Yamaha, and if I mentioned his name I'm sure a few of you would know him, as he does some pretty crazy stuff on videos with some of the big names we have all come to know, he said he would not suggest the s/c phazer to his worst enemy for how I ride. So case closed on the phazer. Case opened on the Nytro.

I come from a 2 stroke mentality as far as power to weight ratio, it's very simple math if we go N/A 2 storke to N/A 4 stroke on pure power to weight the 2 stroke wins everytime.

Now we we can add the reliability angle, this doesn't concern me for a couple reasons,
1. because if you give a 2 stroke good fuel (av gas)
2.good oil (endless options, I like castrol TTS)
3. Ensure it runs within it's proper rpm band

The engine will last a very long and trouble free time, abuse any one of those and you will be rebuilding top ends, replacing jugs etc...

Just pulling numbers from the web, I get a dry weight on a 2009 stock dragon at 477lbs and a dry weight on a stock Nytro at 542lbs giving us a difference of 65lbs. Lets say that both companies have lied equally about their machines and regardless of the true weights we still end up with a difference of 65lbs. That all said 65lbs isn't all that bad.

Again taking numbers off the web, I am getting 147hp for a 2 stroke dragon and 130hp for a Nytro. So in stock format it's a no brainer you need to go with the Dragon, it's lighter and it has more power.

Lets add boost: This is where I will need your guys input, I know I can pull 220+hp out of a 700 dragon motor, I shaved some weight off my dragon last year so it maintained very close to the same dry weight as posted

The Nytro, again I don't have any input except for the fact that they can range from 180hp to 340plus HP.

Your not going to ever pull 300 reliable HP out of a two stroke, but I can easily pull 220 reliable HP out of a 2 stroke and when I say reliable I mean add oil gas make an adjustment before you leave the parking lot and before you come down to add some extra fuel to keep her running cool.

No question 4 stroke needs less or no adjusment.

So what have we determined in my ramble (and I appreciate all your patience through this as I get more particular about which sled I am going to ride)

2 stroke is lighter, needs more attention to last, and can't make as much power

4 stroke is heavier, is pretty trouble free once setup, and can make more power then your grandma can make cookies!

So I guess my questions come down to the following:

1. How heavy are your real life Nytro's after turbo'd or supercharged
2. What kind of bottom end tree poking lag are you dealing with

I guess that's it guys, I know the Nytro's can go straight up the hill and beat everyone doing it, but how are they when you put them up against a Polaris pro in the tight tree's, that to me is what it comes down to.

Again thanks for the input and listening to the ramble!!!

Jeff

www.holomis.com
info@holomis.com

 

[christopher]

I bought 2 Nytros and 1 Phazer on New Years Eve back in 2009.
Rode all three for the last couple seasons now.

This last year I got to ride my first boosted Nytro for 1 day.

Some comments..
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2779470

 

[TApeX_07]

My sled last Feb with a full tank, Impulse, 162 2.5, TS skid, West coast front. 647.1lbs.

 

[christopher]

My 2010 Nytro SE weighed in at 560lbs DRY when I first got her.

Will see if I can't get her back on the scale with all the mods to see how many pounds she has gained with the Super Charger.

I am guessing +20lbs for the supercharger and fluids.

 

[Holomis International]

So wet to wet or dry to dry, what are we in accordance on for weight difference on average (I know we can add light weight stuff to both) between a Turbo Dragon and a Turbo/SC Nytro.

Are we safe to say there is 80lbs or is it more/less.

Thanks for all the info guys!

Jeff

 

[Lucas]

iam in a similar boat.
owned and ridden tons of sleds
exciter piped
225hp cat triple
skidoo 700 151
800 151
M7 162
xp.154/163
ride with guys with M8's xp's ,pro's and turbo dragon


i want a phazer and everyone says dont ------get the nytro its better.

iam done with the hillclimb thing bored and scared of after a big avalanche i rode out

for 100% boondocking purposes UNDER $10 000 bucks.

used phazer with turbo or s/c might be the ticket. solid 150 hp and spend some money on timbersled/ski's and lighten it a bit.

why do i keep looking at that damn phazer!!..

I GOT $ 1500 bucks for a phazer with a bad engine.....

i am willing to try a nyrto swap

 

[Holomis International]

iam in a similar boat.
owned and ridden tons of sleds
exciter piped
225hp cat triple
skidoo 700 151
800 151
M7 162
xp.154/163
ride with guys with M8's xp's ,pro's and turbo dragon


i want a phazer and everyone says dont ------get the nytro its better.

iam done with the hillclimb thing bored and scared of after a big avalanche i rode out

for 100% boondocking purposes UNDER $10 000 bucks.

used phazer with turbo or s/c might be the ticket. solid 150 hp and spend some money on timbersled/ski's and lighten it a bit.

why do i keep looking at that damn phazer!!..

I GOT $ 1500 bucks for a phazer with a bad engine.....

i am willing to try a nyrto swap

I know what you are saying, but after doing quite a bit of research on it I think the Phazer is best left for the trails:

Main reasons:

-No matter what you do to it, it's riding on a 14" track (unless widen bulkhead and then your spending more money again)

- 500 motor running very hard at anything over 150hp

- heavier then a comparable two stroke offering same power

- Not as good of floatation as the other 2 stroke mountain sleds

After talking with a local fellow and of course the input from fellow SW's I think it is best to get the Phazer out of our heads and move forward to something else.

Like anything you can dump a ton of cash into it and I am sure you can make it a great little sled, but for the same cash you can have a much better sled. The problem is you are taking a sled that is already behind the 8 ball and trying to make it do things it wasn't intended for, when you can start with a sled that was intended for deep snow, boondocking etc... and throw the same coin at it and be way further ahead.

I know I know my dreams of owning a boondocking, jumping, sweet carving Phazer were also dashed very quickly!

You have to think to yourself, if the big boys aren't spending time dialing these Phazer's in to boondocking monsters then there is a reason for it. Lots have tried and as I realize now, the machine just isn't cut out for deep powder boondocking.

Just my thoughts out loud!

Jeff

 

[Climbmax]

I also have a Phazer with 14 7/8" track in it. Nytro reasr skid 153" X2.25 track. Apex front shocks, Simmons skis, MCX turbo, bought it for 5k. It is acutally my kids sled who rips on it and skis a tad when we hit the backcountry....and it is an a amazing unit boondocking. Love the look on the M1000 face when it highmarks him Done it several times. They scatter.
The chasis is sweet and could only imagine riding one with 200 hp

If you are only worried about boondocking and hanging with the superdooper mini mods it will do it well.

This is from a few years ago......I think they are still bitter
and I love the comments from the youtube peanut gallery

RS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WzmtIFUrFA

 

[christopher]

I bought my 2008 Phazer for my 2 small kids, 11 and 12.
They are small kids and can RIP IT UP on that sled.

I have to think with the right person, a boosted Phazer COULD be a pretty capable sled in the mountains.

I suppose its all about the weight and size of the rider??

 

[Scott1]

I also have a Phazer with 14 7/8" track in it. Nytro reasr skid 153" X2.25 track. Apex front shocks, Simmons skis, MCX turbo, bought it for 5k. It is acutally my kids sled who rips on it and skis a tad when we hit the backcountry....and it is an a amazing unit boondocking. Love the look on the M1000 face when it highmarks him Done it several times. They scatter.
The chasis is sweet and could only imagine riding one with 200 hp

If you are only worried about boondocking and hanging with the superdooper mini mods it will do it well.

This is from a few years ago......I think they are still bitter
and I love the comments from the youtube peanut gallery

RS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WzmtIFUrFA

Well said, its amazing how may people will bash a boosted phazer when they have never ridden one. Yea a boosted nytro will go further, but a boosted nytro is at least $12K, while a boosted phazer is around $5-6K. Kind of like comparing apples and oranges. I would love to show some of you what a phazer can do with a good rider. That video is the same outcome I get everytime I race my buddies up the hill on their 800's, and oh yea I have a boosted nytro as well.

 

[kinger9]

A good rider can ride anything, pick how much maintenance you want and go ride. Blaming any one sled for being 'poor' is the fault of the rider IMO. They are all good handling sleds. I have seen 140lb guys throwing around apex's and 400lb guys on ski doos and they all seem to be able to do what they want. Personally I am addicted to the power, its a pure rush and use 91 octane and haven't touched the engine or supercharger on my apex for 3 years, i never have to worry about when to 'dump it' or when i need to 'freshen' up the engine, or bring oil, etc. Its just too easy and carefree riding to be worried about the weight difference of a tank of fuel.

 

[Holomis International]

A good rider can ride anything, pick how much maintenance you want and go ride. Blaming any one sled for being 'poor' is the fault of the rider IMO. They are all good handling sleds. I have seen 140lb guys throwing around apex's and 400lb guys on ski doos and they all seem to be able to do what they want. Personally I am addicted to the power, its a pure rush and use 91 octane and haven't touched the engine or supercharger on my apex for 3 years, i never have to worry about when to 'dump it' or when i need to 'freshen' up the engine, or bring oil, etc. Its just too easy and carefree riding to be worried about the weight difference of a tank of fuel.

Kinger

I understand what your saying however, there are better options for how people ride, and yes a good rider can ride anything, but it helps to have a proper machine for what the rider is doing, and that is what I am trying to get to the bottom of in this post.

I would consider myself to be a decent rider, but I can certainly go and do a lot more things with a turbo dragon over a 1996 V-Max.

This is why we have technological advances, so what I am trying to determine with feedback from others is, which is the best sled for my riding style, which is boondocking and the odd big poke.

I understand also that is comes down to rider preferences as well.

Jeff

 

[pelon]

My 2010 nytro SE weighs in at just over 550 wet.
Take that and put a MCX 180 or supercharger. Stay away from the 2-strokes, unless you want to rebuild occasionally.

 

[Oregonsledder]

I guess that's it guys, I know the Nytro's can go straight up the hill and beat everyone doing it, but how are they when you put them up against a Polaris pro in the tight tree's, that to me is what it comes down to.

Again thanks for the input and listening to the ramble!!!

Jeff

www.holomis.com
info@holomis.com[/QUOTE]

Jeff, if you are measuring potential sleds against the PRO, then maybe you should consider a PRO? I just got my 2012 PRO RMK 800, so of course that would be my view, but it seems in your mind it's the standard you want to meet. Your words, not mine.
Good luck!

 

[Holomis International]

I guess that's it guys, I know the Nytro's can go straight up the hill and beat everyone doing it, but how are they when you put them up against a Polaris pro in the tight tree's, that to me is what it comes down to.

Again thanks for the input and listening to the ramble!!!

Jeff

www.holomis.com
info@holomis.com

Jeff, if you are measuring potential sleds against the PRO, then maybe you should consider a PRO? I just got my 2012 PRO RMK 800, so of course that would be my view, but it seems in your mind it's the standard you want to meet. Your words, not mine.
Good luck![/QUOTE]

Absolutely that is what I am thinking, I was just curious about the Yammies as there is certainly a huge following for them. But I would say the Pro is going to be the best handling sled in the tree's no question. I really want to ride boost again this year and my only concern with the pro is that I would like the Turbo MFG's to get some more time on them. That is the only reason I don't have a Turbo Pro sitting in my shop right now. So that leads me back to Turbo Dragon's as I know they work. Then I got side tracked with the Phazer and finally onto the Nytro, again I know the Nytro's as far as reliability and power work, just wondering if they could compare with the Dragon in the tree's.

Thanks for your input for sure!

Jeff

www.holomis.com
info@holomis.com

 

[pelon]

your welcome for the input:

One last note though,

I have riden both the Pro and Nytro, however I much prefer the Nytro for boondocking---it just handles better--------and I'm not partial to any manufacturer---just performance.

thats 2010 SE and up