What oil with RKT drop in kit

[jakey-boy]

I read somewhere the other day that you don't want to run synthetic oil at all with RKT's drop in kit. I am curious what you guys that have it are running? Do you have issues with exhaust valves gumming up?

Maybe kelsey will chime in when he has a second and let us know what he recommends and why we want to stay away from synthetic? I definitely understand why no synthetic on break in but after that I am curious.

Any info would be great guys.

 

[jakey-boy]

Found the answer to the why:

http://www.2strokeheads.com/OIL-TECH.htm

Now hopefully I will hear from some guys that are using it what they have run and how it works.

 

[rmscustom]

I run legend. Exhaust valves stay cleaner with that than any synthetic I've used.

 

[mountainhorse]

You will find that "The Oil Question" is as long and drawn out as you can get...Lots of drama and lots of people defending their position on and use of a product.

I use Legend Mineral oil... it gives a nice clean burn, great lubrication in the sleds and bikes (and weed wackers) I've used it in. I like the storage protection that I feel that mineral oil excels at. One side benefit of this is that the exhaust smells pleasant compared to the synthetics that I've been using.

In my PRO RMK's and the XP/XM/Pro's that I take care of for people, I run the Legend ZX-2SR.

I ran it last season in an 800 Dragon RMK that had burn down issues in the past. This is a friends sled and I've handled the top end replacement more times that I've cared for. He rides hard and often lets the sled sit outiside the cabin for long periods of time. I've just replaced the pistons for good measure after 2800 miles... running the Legend ZX2SR oil and noticed that the "scuffing" of the piston was very much minimized and the exhaust valves were serviceable.... only being cleaned at 1200 miles (once since rebuild).

I pulled apart a 2012 800 ETEC last month that had 2600 miles on it to put in a drop-in-kit RKT kit... been running the 2SR since new... I could have put the pistons back in the sled... the wear was surprising as well as the fact that the exhaust valves were not gummed up since their last cleaning 1500 miles previously.

It's worth it to me for the cost plus 2 benefits... I like the smell of the exhaust when running this and I feel strongly that the non synth oils like this protect against corrosion better, especially when the sleds are left outside for weeks.

When you buy 2 cases at a time... the shipping is reasonable and fast... I just stock up for the season and call it good.

In this conversation....What oil to use... It is an area where you will find that RKT AND Indy Dan agree that they much prefer a high quality mineral oil, made for low temps, to synthetics....IMO, that says something right there.

Mineral oil is better for break in and cling better to internal parts of the engine to protect them from condensation that can happen when the sleds cool down overnight... especially when parked outdoors.

There are many success stories with many different kinds of oil...

On the PRO RMK's... i still highly recommend turning up the oil pump and also adding a bit to the tank.

I also turn up the oil pump on all of the Polaris sleds I wrench on... 40:1 or better.... I prefer the extra protection.

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[dragonfire]

I have run Red Line for years with finding a good film on parts when I take the motor apart. Exhaust valves stay nice and clean. With that being said, I hear equally or better reveiws about legend oil. In the future I will probably switch to Legend so I don't have to change from mineral oil to synthetic and back when you break in a new motor or replace pistons. I also turn up my oil pump and mix oil in gas.
Good Luck on your choice. Several good options, just some are better than others. I ran redline with the Rkt drop in kit 1,000 miles with no issues.The pistons were okay , it was just Kelsey that didn't like my choice.

 

[jakey-boy]

I run legend. Exhaust valves stay cleaner with that than any synthetic I've used.

I know the reviews for legend are awesome but $40 a gallon or more depending on if you order in bulk and shipping and everything seems crazy to me. That's close to double what I pay for polaris gold synthetic. Would like to try legend but does anyone know a dealer in Southern idaho or utah that would have in stock?

 

[rmscustom]

I know the reviews for legend are awesome but $40 a gallon or more depending on if you order in bulk and shipping and everything seems crazy to me. That's close to double what I pay for polaris gold synthetic. Would like to try legend but does anyone know a dealer in Southern idaho or utah that would have in stock?

I got mine this year right from legend at a snow show in 5 gallon pails. worked out to $35 a gallon for the zx-2sr but yeah, its not cheap oil. I think Kelsey used to be a dealer but not sure if he is anymore.

 

[NDFARMER95]

Anything other than legend?

 

[Lind]

kinda wondering this myself... i dont really care to pay that much for oil. (legend)

I was running mystik jt4 and had good film on everything. I am leaning towards running mystik sea and snow or arctic blue. Less then $20 a gallon at fleet and cleaning my valves every 1000 miles... im open to ideas on oil tho

 

[gman086]

I have run Red Line for years with finding a good film on parts when I take the motor apart. Exhaust valves stay nice and clean. I ran redline with the Rkt drop in kit 1,000 miles with no issues.The pistons were okay , it was just Kelsey that didn't like my choice.

Redline is actually a mix of synthetic and mineral oil and Kelsey is welcome to his opinions but Redline is the best of both worlds and plenty of shops with experience to back that up including Carl's and SLP. I have no intentions of switching away from Redline. To each their own.

Have FUN!

G MAN

PS - The whole "molecule size" thing is not an arguable point as there are size differences in the carbon molecules for synthetics developed for 2 strokes versus 4 strokes. Also some of the reactive groups that make up a synthetic have surface tension reducing properties making the overall molecule size a moot point. Finally, the pores in the metal are far larger than any oil molecule further making that argument a moot point. Yeah, I'm a chemist and Kelsy is an engineer. Kelsey's dictation was interesting but not all-encompassing. Not to say that mineral doesn't work, it does and quite well, just doesn't reduce friction as well as the good blends.
PSS - We both do agree tho that mineral oil is the only oil to use for break-in! Synthetics reduce friction too much to seal the rings in a "timely" manner.

 

[NDFARMER95]

Was looking at this Mystic JT4. It's not completely synthetic. Any opinions?
https://www.mystiklubes.com/do/product/SNOWMOBILE/663096002

 

[Reg2view]

Legend 2SR oiler turned up, usually add <1 ounce per gal of gas. It gets lots of oil. No issues after 1400 with the kit, but haven't pulled jugs, just peeped in the holes. Thought I'd give it a try, and wasn't disappointed.

I'd also consider Redline, don't think VES Gold Plus is bad, but not cheap, either. Ran Dominator/Race for a decade in many sleds, great film strength, high rpm and temp stability, and wear resistance on tear downs, but, corrosion additives are weak for storage (more than 30 days). FWIW, you asked. Run what you like, and don't be shy of running more of it than stock.

 

[Fr8tdog]

I need to ask this again, I would like to see the proof of excessive wear in the engines due to the oil pumps set too low.

When arctic came out with the M 7 people had fits about this subject and were turning up the pumps in addition to adding oil to the fuel.....

Has there been an excessive spike in warranty claims for premature engine wear or bearing failure?

I am just trying to understand why we are trying to circumnavigate the engineering on the motors... Excessive oil reduces engine power and is wasted money out the exhaust.

That being said if there is evidence of premature wearing due to lack of oil so they can meet emissions, then I can see needing to turn it up.

I had 8k on the m8 with normal wear and have 4k on the pro with normal wear.. Maybe I am lucky.

Not trying to start an argument I'm just trying to understand and gain knowledge.

 

[jakey-boy]

I need to ask this again, I would like to see the proof of excessive wear in the engines due to the oil pumps set too low.

When arctic came out with the M 7 people had fits about this subject and were turning up the pumps in addition to adding oil to the fuel.....

Has there been an excessive spike in warranty claims for premature engine wear or bearing failure?

I am just trying to understand why we are trying to circumnavigate the engineering on the motors... Excessive oil reduces engine power and is wasted money out the exhaust.

That being said if there is evidence of premature wearing due to lack of oil so they can meet emissions, then I can see needing to turn it up.

I had 8k on the m8 with normal wear and have 4k on the pro with normal wear.. Maybe I am lucky.

Not trying to start an argument I'm just trying to understand and gain knowledge.

Lots of other posts on this subject. Really would like to keep this about options for oil with the RKT kit. Thanks

 

[Fr8tdog]

I am waiting for my kit to come in, that's why I posted on this thread.

 

[RKT]

PS - The whole "molecule size" thing is not an arguable point as there are size differences in the carbon molecules for synthetics developed for 2 strokes versus 4 strokes. Also some of the reactive groups that make up a synthetic have surface tension reducing properties making the overall molecule size a moot point. Finally, the pores in the metal are far larger than any oil molecule further making that argument a moot point. Yeah, I'm a chemist and Kelsy is an engineer. Kelsey's dictation was interesting but misinformed. Not to say that mineral doesn't work, it does and quite well, just doesn't reduce friction as well as the good blends.
PSS - We both do agree tho that mineral oil is the only oil to use for break-in! Synthetics reduce friction too much to seal the rings in a "timely" manner.

With all due respect.. Can you please tell me where there is any misinformation in that article? Once determined, I will alter it to reflect the correct information.

As for what oil anybody chooses to run, you can run whatever oil you choose.. It is your engine, afterall.. After 100's of engine tear-downs and inspections, we can only go by what those results have produced/shown.. and the evidence presented int he website article by myself and oil experts.. SOME Syn oils will not hurt your engine..(others we have found will) we just find that your engine will not be as happy...

Hope this clears a few things up...

 

[brandriet]

I decided to go with Legend Oil. So many different opinions out there it seems. Hope I made the right choice.

 

[gman086]

SOME Syn oils will not hurt your engine..(others we have found will) we just find that your engine will not be as happy...

Hope this clears a few things up...

We're on the same page Kelsey but the way I read your article was that all synthetics are bad (for two strokes) and there was no mention of blends. I know one of the bad syns we can agree on is Blue Marble (it may have some merit as a one-time use based on organosilane chemistry but not for prolonged use). Are you comfortable naming others? We can certainly benefit from your experiences.

Cheers,

G

 

[Bigrock33]

We're on the same page Kelsey but the way I read your article was that all synthetics are bad (for two strokes) and there was no mention of blends. I know one of the bad syns we can agree on is Blue Marble (it may have some merit as a one-time use based on organosilane chemistry but not for prolonged use). Are you comfortable naming others? We can certainly benefit from your experiences.

Cheers,

G

X2 - I would like to hear what you have seen as well Kelsey. You have a wealth of knowledge and experience, have seen hundreds of these motors and you could certainly help educate guys like me. I have been using Amsoil Interceptor since after the initial break in.

 

[RKT]

We're on the same page Kelsey but the way I read your article was that all synthetics are bad (for two strokes) and there was no mention of blends. I know one of the bad syns we can agree on is Blue Marble (it may have some merit as a one-time use based on organosilane chemistry but not for prolonged use). Are you comfortable naming others? We can certainly benefit from your experiences.

Cheers,

G

OK, So, you read an article that NEVER states that synthetic oils are BAD for an engine YET, you intepreted the information (written) in a manner that inspired you to tell people on a public forum that I was MISINFORMING people??

So, I will ask again, WHERE is the mis-information and please note the disclaimer at the VERY top of the article.... Not trying to be flip... but stating that there is mis-information in an article is a strong statement..

If the article is open to interpretation (on the reader's part) that is one thing.. but that is NOT was was posted....

IMO, a 2 stroke engine will benefit from a mineral based oil over a synthetic oil.. NOTE: I said "benefit"!!!

This has been our findings and has been solidified by chemists and other real world testing.. If you feel more comfortable using a syn oil.. then feel free to use it... We will continue with the Legend Oil until we find something that is better...

Now for some more information...unrelated...

I am not going to be frequenting SnowWest much anymore..

I am one of the OLDEST members of this forum (see my join date) and have tried to be 100% positive and helpful for since 2001.... But all this misintepretation (like this thread) has begun to wear on me... It is simply not worth it to me anymore....

When I write anything, whether it be on my website or on this forum.. there are ZERO hidden meanings or ineunedos.. Even though people sure like to think that there is.. Honestly, its intent IS what is written .. that's all..

Having said, that.. I am always here to answer any and all questions.. But SW forum is NOT the medium to use for this..

PLEASE, use my email or feel free to call anytime.. ALWAYS happy to talk...

I'm out

Kelsey