what are we going to do?

[snow hawk gal]

---

When the bikes have years of testing under their belts where it can be proven then it doesnt cause serious problems with the machines then I believe that we can prove that it doesn't do harm to the bikes. But at this point since they are really new to the market they do not have the years of testing on machines to prove it. I'm not trying to dog the bikes but there is basic logic involved with the mechanics of any bike. Guys that race their dirt bikes usually get a new one ever season. I know the racers in our group usually do every year or two. How is riding a snow bike going to be any different. So when the bikes gets year under their belts and people do some independent testing, then I believe it can be said that it doesn't cause serious problems with the dirt bike. But at this point the people that I have talked to say that it does. It's basic logic think about what our Snowmobiles and Snow Hawks go through in a season.

 

[buffaloHAWK]

thats the yamaha....

i knew that diagram /pic was still out there somewhere......

 

[off road rider]

i knew that diagram /pic was still out there somewhere......

patents applied for a few months ago...

 

[buffaloHAWK]

jump ship or nest

id hate to fly out of the nest,but if that yamaha comes to life it will be interesting for us all.maybe ill wait a year or 2 after and get a red one to match my crf250x...only time will tell. honda did make a snowmobile awhile back didnt they...?

 

[cjgodden]

Just because there are a few sketches and some patent's applied for means nothing. Honda has multiple ideas and patents for sleds out there and they are not producing any thing, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[off road rider]

But the interest is there..If it does come out its very likely to look nothing like the sketch..Dont think there not looking at the entire single ski concept..

 

[apache]

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!!! SNOWBIKING IS "IN" hahhahaha



i told ya so!!!

yamaha STRADDLE

if its so popular why did you delete your post from the yamaha forum?

 

[Dobber1]

When the bikes have years of testing under their belts where it can be proven then it doesnt cause serious problems with the machines then I believe that we can prove that it doesn't do harm to the bikes. But at this point since they are really new to the market they do not have the years of testing on machines to prove it. I'm not trying to dog the bikes but there is basic logic involved with the mechanics of any bike. Guys that race their dirt bikes usually get a new one ever season. I know the racers in our group usually do every year or two. How is riding a snow bike going to be any different. So when the bikes gets year under their belts and people do some independent testing, then I believe it can be said that it doesn't cause serious problems with the dirt bike. But at this point the people that I have talked to say that it does. It's basic logic think about what our Snowmobiles and Snow Hawks go through in a season.

Guilty until proven innocent?

 

[cjgodden]

if its so popular why did you delete your post from the yamaha forum?

Why do you have to come here and spout your negitivity? Understand there is a market, and it's NOT people like you. I would love nothing more than to have one of the big four come out with an equivenent to the Hawk, I am hooked, I will not buy another two skied snow machine. But I am not going to get excited about a drawing and a patent. When I see a production model on the other hand, who knows.

 

[roo]

serious damage?

When the bikes have years of testing under their belts where it can be proven then it doesnt cause serious problems with the machines then I believe that we can prove that it doesn't do harm to the bikes. But at this point since they are really new to the market they do not have the years of testing on machines to prove it. I'm not trying to dog the bikes but there is basic logic involved with the mechanics of any bike. Guys that race their dirt bikes usually get a new one ever season. I know the racers in our group usually do every year or two. How is riding a snow bike going to be any different. So when the bikes gets year under their belts and people do some independent testing, then I believe it can be said that it doesn't cause serious problems with the dirt bike. But at this point the people that I have talked to say that it does. It's basic logic think about what our Snowmobiles and Snow Hawks go through in a season.

define "serious damage" I have ridden bikes my whole life, every time I start one I plan on doing "serious damage" in the name of FUN. anyone that rides in the dunes has heard a thousand times "I WOULD NEVER RIDE THE SAND, TO HARD ON THE MOTOR, NO WAY TO KEEP SAND OUT OF ENGINE etc. etc. if you want to play, you got to pay. some times you pay a little more, to have a lot more fun. BIG, FLUFFY, COLD, WHITE DUNES ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[snow hawk gal]

----

Exactly my point Roo. Expect to do some serious damage in the name of fun.

You my friend have a machine that was in the hands of in my opinion one of the two best riders I think I may ever see of the Snow Hawk, the machine is how old? It needs some work. Would you invest that kind of work into a dirt bike or just buy a new one. Either way it's lasted years under some of the most stressful conditions I can imagine.

So whether you have a Hawk or are making a bike conversion kit, expect to put some serious wear and tear on these things. You may end up destroying it and buying a new one or in your case with your Hawk you are recreating a work of art.

Tammy

 

[snoboy3]

single track

gad, i hope they do! nice to see someone else, especially the japanese jump in to the fray. love to see it fo into production!

 

[adrenalinejky]

Exactly my point Roo. Expect to do some serious damage in the name of fun.

You my friend have a machine that was in the hands of in my opinion one of the two best riders I think I may ever see of the Snow Hawk, the machine is how old? It needs some work. Would you invest that kind of work into a dirt bike or just buy a new one. Either way it's lasted years under some of the most stressful conditions I can imagine.

So whether you have a Hawk or are making a bike conversion kit, expect to put some serious wear and tear on these things. You may end up destroying it and buying a new one or in your case with your Hawk you are recreating a work of art.

Tammy

Its all about maintenance. Most of the big 4 strokes will last forever, if the guys and gals owning them new the basics, adjusting valves and throw a piston at them every now and then. Its not rocket science.

 

[TallBoysWRF]

When the bikes have years of testing under their belts where it can be proven then it doesnt cause serious problems with the machines then I believe that we can prove that it doesn't do harm to the bikes. But at this point since they are really new to the market they do not have the years of testing on machines to prove it. I'm not trying to dog the bikes but there is basic logic involved with the mechanics of any bike. Guys that race their dirt bikes usually get a new one ever season. I know the racers in our group usually do every year or two. How is riding a snow bike going to be any different. So when the bikes gets year under their belts and people do some independent testing, then I believe it can be said that it doesn't cause serious problems with the dirt bike. But at this point the people that I have talked to say that it does. It's basic logic think about what our Snowmobiles and Snow Hawks go through in a season.

I picked up an explorer kit this fall and see a few things about it that that would accelerate wear/damage faster than would be idea.

One is that the yoke arms that go up to the foot begs come down and hit the track frame when the track is in the middle position (see picture). In my case I can bottom out the rear suspension in the middle position just by standing on the foot pegs and jumping, there's a real potential for damage if you hit a large dip in the trail or something else while going fast.

Second thing is the the chain is offset, and not aligned properly. This is to get clearance between the chain and the swing arm, but it will still wear the chain/sprockets faster that they would otherwise. I have a 7mm offset on my bike.(see other picture)

Third issue is the fact that the rear hub spins backwards. With the wheel, the brake pads but up against the caliper mount, so when you're braking the caliper squeezes the pads, but the force of the braking is transfered from the pads, to the caliper mount, and to the swing arm, not through the caliper. With the explorer kit the all the force is transfered from the pads through the pad retaining pin to the caliper, and then through the caliper slide bolts to the caliper mount, and then to the swingarm. A whole new set of stresses the rear brake system was not designed for. That little retaining pin shears and your day just got really bad, really fast. (sorry, no picture on that one)

Another issue, not by design, but by the installation manual is how the front ski is attached. I have brought it to Denis's attention at ADB, but I don't know if he will implement any change. In the installation manual the instructions are to "Adjust the front wheel axle so that you have enough threads on bolt exceeding the fork to tighten adequately the front wheel axle. Do not tighten the nut of the wheel axle...Tighten the fork collar bolts on head side of the front wheel axle only...Tighten the fixation nut of the front wheel axle...Tighten the fixation nut of the front wheel axle." This process pulls the bottoms of the forks together to compress the ski components on the axle. If the spacers are not exact, the ends of the forks will be pulled in (or pushed out if the spacers are too wide) which can misalign the forks and bind them when they are compressed (and wear out the bushings). The better process is to tighten the axle nut and draw everything tight to the left fork before tightening the right fork axle clamps. This tightens the ski components up, but allows the right fork to position itself properly on the axle to prevent the forks from being misaligned.

How much of an issue the above things will turn out to be, I can't say, but the potential is there for parts to fail. As it was mentioned before, you have to expect wear and tear on a performance machine. It's just a trade off for level of fun and rate of wear and tear, so everyone has to decide where their balance is of fun, maintenance, and cost is.

Personally I'm still waiting for enough snow to get the kit out. So I can't comment on the fun factor just yet, though I'm sure it will be high.

 

[TallBoysWRF]

Its all about maintenance. Most of the big 4 strokes will last forever, if the guys and gals owning them new the basics, adjusting valves and throw a piston at them every now and then. Its not rocket science.

That is true, but depending on what bike you have, to different levels. My Yamaha WR400 needs the valves adjusted more frequently (or at least checked), frequent oil changes and being a short skirt piston, needs a new piston every couple years (I learned that the hard way...let it go too long and it trashed the motor). Now if you have a lower revving torque monster like a Honda XR650, you might need to put a piston in it every 10 years, adjust the valves every couple years, and can probably change the oil in the spring and fall, depending on how much you ride.

 

[Dobber1]

I picked up an explorer kit this fall and see a few things about it that that would accelerate wear/damage faster than would be idea.

One is that the yoke arms that go up to the foot begs come down and hit the track frame when the track is in the middle position (see picture). In my case I can bottom out the rear suspension in the middle position just by standing on the foot pegs and jumping, there's a real potential for damage if you hit a large dip in the trail or something else while going fast.

Second thing is the the chain is offset, and not aligned properly. This is to get clearance between the chain and the swing arm, but it will still wear the chain/sprockets faster that they would otherwise. I have a 7mm offset on my bike.(see other picture)

Third issue is the fact that the rear hub spins backwards. With the wheel, the brake pads but up against the caliper mount, so when you're braking the caliper squeezes the pads, but the force of the braking is transfered from the pads, to the caliper mount, and to the swing arm, not through the caliper. With the explorer kit the all the force is transfered from the pads through the pad retaining pin to the caliper, and then through the caliper slide bolts to the caliper mount, and then to the swingarm. A whole new set of stresses the rear brake system was not designed for. That little retaining pin shears and your day just got really bad, really fast. (sorry, no picture on that one)

Another issue, not by design, but by the installation manual is how the front ski is attached. I have brought it to Denis's attention at ADB, but I don't know if he will implement any change. In the installation manual the instructions are to "Adjust the front wheel axle so that you have enough threads on bolt exceeding the fork to tighten adequately the front wheel axle. Do not tighten the nut of the wheel axle...Tighten the fork collar bolts on head side of the front wheel axle only...Tighten the fixation nut of the front wheel axle...Tighten the fixation nut of the front wheel axle." This process pulls the bottoms of the forks together to compress the ski components on the axle. If the spacers are not exact, the ends of the forks will be pulled in (or pushed out if the spacers are too wide) which can misalign the forks and bind them when they are compressed (and wear out the bushings). The better process is to tighten the axle nut and draw everything tight to the left fork before tightening the right fork axle clamps. This tightens the ski components up, but allows the right fork to position itself properly on the axle to prevent the forks from being misaligned.

How much of an issue the above things will turn out to be, I can't say, but the potential is there for parts to fail. As it was mentioned before, you have to expect wear and tear on a performance machine. It's just a trade off for level of fun and rate of wear and tear, so everyone has to decide where their balance is of fun, maintenance, and cost is.

Personally I'm still waiting for enough snow to get the kit out. So I can't comment on the fun factor just yet, though I'm sure it will be high.

Can you find out if they have sold a kit to anyone else with the same bike to see what that result was?

Did you have any interference with the chain guard bracket & the lower idler sprocket? If so, what did you do to resolve this? If you tilted the chasis downward for clearance, that may be why the yoke arms are hitting the track frame. Does your track seem to be leveled or his it higher on one end vs. the other?

Am I correct saying the hub sprocket can't go any further over because it's already against the swingarm, or is there a spacer in there other than the shear plate? Did you have any "Special Assembly" parts that were used in the installation of the axle hub?

In other words, you are "maxed out" and would only be able to align it with some type of sprocket offset which can't be done given the diameter is too small & would not be able to clear the swingarm.

Does the hub on your rear tire stick out past the sprocket, or is it flush? My hub/hub spacer? sticks out about 1/4" past the sprocket.

I'd be interested to know what the difference between the, (27R yours) & (3R mine), adaptor kits is??

Send some 3D pics next time....

 

[snow hawk gal]

What ever it takes.

what is gonna happen to us all when ADB quits making hawk parts.....

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56355&highlight=delorean

Got to show all these new Oneski's what they were missing out on all these years.

The original one ski snowmobile the SNOW HAWK!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l118fKX3-xk:D

 

[buffaloHAWK]

tony?

lol

 

[TallBoysWRF]

Can you find out if they have sold a kit to anyone else with the same bike to see what that result was?

Did you have any interference with the chain guard bracket & the lower idler sprocket? If so, what did you do to resolve this? If you tilted the chasis downward for clearance, that may be why the yoke arms are hitting the track frame. Does your track seem to be leveled or his it higher on one end vs. the other?

Am I correct saying the hub sprocket can't go any further over because it's already against the swingarm, or is there a spacer in there other than the shear plate? Did you have any "Special Assembly" parts that were used in the installation of the axle hub?

In other words, you are "maxed out" and would only be able to align it with some type of sprocket offset which can't be done given the diameter is too small & would not be able to clear the swingarm.

Does the hub on your rear tire stick out past the sprocket, or is it flush? My hub/hub spacer? sticks out about 1/4" past the sprocket.

I'd be interested to know what the difference between the, (27R yours) & (3R mine), adaptor kits is??

Send some 3D pics next time....

I don't know if any more have been sold for a WR400 or 426, but I was the first one as I measured all the dimensions for the kit.

The track is installed correctly, it's just that the yoke arms mount too low. Denis at AD Boivin said this was perfectly "normal", but the way the arms contact the track frame is not in line. When the two connect, because they are offset from each other, the yoke arm is pushed out, and the corner of the track frame pushed in. I have designed a bracket that remounts the yoke arms using the upper holes in the foot peg mounts, and almost identically mimics the original characteristics, while giving myself about twice the suspension travel in the middle track position.

The sprocket on the rear hub is as far left as it can really go. There is a little more clearance before the chain starts to hit the swing arm, but the bracket that holds the lower idler sprocket will start to hit the swing arm if it is moved over any.

As for the chain guard, I had to cut the rearmost tab off. I did NOT want to do this, but I didn't know I would have to when I bought the kit. I'm hoping I don't regret that move when I'm running with the wheels in the summer as it's rocky as heck around here. The way it was, the tab would hit the bracket that holds the lower idler gear, giving me essentially zero suspension travel.

The wheel spacers on any bike will stick out past the sprocket a little bit. If they didn't your sprocket would be hitting the swing arm. My spacer doesn't stick out very far at all, but you have to keep in mind that the chain runs around the end of the swing arm. With the explorer kit, the chain runs up around the FRONT of the sprocket, on the side of the swing arm, so it has to be moved inboard to some degree for clearance.

I have no idea what would be different between the adapter kits. What bike is your kit on anyway?

 

[Dobber1]

I have no idea what would be different between the adapter kits. What bike is your kit on anyway?

2004 WR450. I'll take a closer look at mine to see if I can tell where the difference might be. Not that it'll make yours right, but really curious why they are so different.