hey Randy I do have a vid of you beating fassett but for some reason all of them didn't go threw. If I get home for lunch I'll try again or tonight.
what are the condition around bend? (Wanoga snopark?)
- Thread starter mc2stroke
- Start date
Josh ... Thanks !!! (added the clips to the other post)
Rob ... I know you were quick on the 860 ... heard lots of comments from people who were there watching and racing ... they were saying the 1080 triple and higher-boost guys were all track spin and not enough go ... that they had to play catch-up ... but that they did eventually run down most of the guys ... video would be great ... you know if any was taken? ... anyhow like you were saying ... I'm sure a properly setup lightweight 190hp race spec 860 will run with a properly setup "low-boost" turbo in the 190hp range ... My setup is good for around 290hp and I am honestly not at all concerned that a sled with 100 less horsepower is going to out climb me ... thats what I'm setup for ... thats what I like to do.
My comment on the 660 was "around" 40mph ... It felt like one of the new 800s to me and I'm pretty sure the new 800 Dragons are making more torque and as much or more horsepower than the 660s ... total riding weight, setup, snow conditions, and rider skill would be the deciding factors in any sort of climbing competition ... so how do you think Jack as tuner and rider would do climbing Granite Peak on one of the Dragon 8s against you on your 660?
With that maverick plus track my SCApex comes clawing out of the hole like an Alaskan Grizzley ... 500 more rpm at engagement and the clutching will be just right ... It'll turn that 660 of yours into a pin cushion in less than 500ft ...
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Rob ... I know you were quick on the 860 ... heard lots of comments from people who were there watching and racing ... they were saying the 1080 triple and higher-boost guys were all track spin and not enough go ... that they had to play catch-up ... but that they did eventually run down most of the guys ... video would be great ... you know if any was taken? ... anyhow like you were saying ... I'm sure a properly setup lightweight 190hp race spec 860 will run with a properly setup "low-boost" turbo in the 190hp range ... My setup is good for around 290hp and I am honestly not at all concerned that a sled with 100 less horsepower is going to out climb me ... thats what I'm setup for ... thats what I like to do.
My comment on the 660 was "around" 40mph ... It felt like one of the new 800s to me and I'm pretty sure the new 800 Dragons are making more torque and as much or more horsepower than the 660s ... total riding weight, setup, snow conditions, and rider skill would be the deciding factors in any sort of climbing competition ... so how do you think Jack as tuner and rider would do climbing Granite Peak on one of the Dragon 8s against you on your 660?
With that maverick plus track my SCApex comes clawing out of the hole like an Alaskan Grizzley ... 500 more rpm at engagement and the clutching will be just right ... It'll turn that 660 of yours into a pin cushion in less than 500ft ...
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Randy,
I rode several times this season with stock 800 dragons from Carls. Bone stock the 08 would not run with MY 660 in anything under super super deep snow when you really couldn't get a like comparison anyway. In any format where you could directly compare like an open hill or drag race stock couldn't compete. I also didnt' get sent back on any hills as we were boondocking that the 800s could make but that isn't really that significant for comparisons sake. Now remember different tracks make for wildly different performance depending on the conditions (mine is a cut down and screwed 144 vs series 5 155 and 163 so hard pan or even semi setup snow wasn't very fair to the longer tracks).
This last weekend I raced what looked like a decent Doo XP up moon at bend. (he was whooping his buddies soundly). Three times we went up and three times the 660 was faster. Anywhere from not more then 1 length to 5 lengths depending on bumps, angles, starts, and such. Never the less the 660 was consistantly faster then that particular XP. Have no idea what it had for extras but we can certain say it was at least as fast as "stock".
Now the prototype 09 Polaris RMK 800 that Carls has is supposed to be very very fast. I have not ridden it yet but will this weekend. Also note the 800 assault in absolute stock form could not hang with the 660. Once again many many other factors and who's too say that any of those sleds were in a peak state of form or running in the conditions for which they standout?
I rode several times this season with stock 800 dragons from Carls. Bone stock the 08 would not run with MY 660 in anything under super super deep snow when you really couldn't get a like comparison anyway. In any format where you could directly compare like an open hill or drag race stock couldn't compete. I also didnt' get sent back on any hills as we were boondocking that the 800s could make but that isn't really that significant for comparisons sake. Now remember different tracks make for wildly different performance depending on the conditions (mine is a cut down and screwed 144 vs series 5 155 and 163 so hard pan or even semi setup snow wasn't very fair to the longer tracks).
This last weekend I raced what looked like a decent Doo XP up moon at bend. (he was whooping his buddies soundly). Three times we went up and three times the 660 was faster. Anywhere from not more then 1 length to 5 lengths depending on bumps, angles, starts, and such. Never the less the 660 was consistantly faster then that particular XP. Have no idea what it had for extras but we can certain say it was at least as fast as "stock".
Now the prototype 09 Polaris RMK 800 that Carls has is supposed to be very very fast. I have not ridden it yet but will this weekend. Also note the 800 assault in absolute stock form could not hang with the 660. Once again many many other factors and who's too say that any of those sleds were in a peak state of form or running in the conditions for which they standout?
I want to get rid of the Blue Elephant and get something a lot smaller ... the polaris snocross chassis with a 144 and the 660 powering it is what I'm leaning towards ... whaddya think !!!
Having never ridden a "properly" setup long tracked racer chassis I am not qualified to coach. I have always thought that they looked cool but have my concerns in the all around because you only ever see or hear of guys "selling" their custom long track racer chassis sleds. Need to experience a really good one I guess. Why don't you go ahead and build one and then we will know. The world has gone fuellie so I'd put in a cfi if it were me. Lots of performance options that are starting to work well now and the best shops have worked through the "new" factor.
Full custom just doesn't appeal to me like it once did. I like to find something that is known and excellent and personalize it to my target style. While not always status quote it's made for several of the best free riding seasons out of many many that weren't that rewarding! Still good enough to be competitive too.
Full custom just doesn't appeal to me like it once did. I like to find something that is known and excellent and personalize it to my target style. While not always status quote it's made for several of the best free riding seasons out of many many that weren't that rewarding! Still good enough to be competitive too.
True ... maybe a - pump gas - single piper - 860 Assault - will do the trick ...
I'm still undecided!
Gonna ride the other options and get some more experience. My buddy who has a ported 800 single piper that is supposed to be super duper strong. He is very meticulous and frog hairs things to get that extra extra. His stuff has always ran very strong. There are reports that the 800 ported reeds and twin pipes with race gas is a runner too. I kick myself for not riding Erin Beukelman's 08 improver 800 at Anthony Lakes..worse I should have bought that sled! For what you got that was the best deal.
I'm not sold on the Assault just yet. I rode it briefly and I would not trade my 660 for it but it was stock and prototypical. My 660 is maxed out while there is a mile of potential still in the assault. I'm not sold that the assault track is the best option either. After riding it (the 155) this past weekend alot...then based on my earlier experience on the actual assault sled I firmly believe my series 5 with screws is a better overall track. But still yet I don't think it was a good a race and firm setup track as my finger track. I just haven't gotten a chance to put a finger on the IQ chassis so that I can really make that statement of what is best in the all around. That unknown is the 10 super deep days out of 50 that we got this year. On the edge it did just fine but the IQ is an entirely different animal for transfer and weight balance.
Do you buy the Assault for $10,400 2 cool vent it, Better Board it, SLP single it and go ride the living crap out of it being worth about $11 gizel?
or do you buy
800 RMK SWIFT for $9,400 buy the new lesser priced FOX with evol, TI coils, a 144 cut and screwed, single pipe, 2 Cool Vents, and Better Boards for the similar money?
I think you will find that on a real 450lbs sled with the shorter track a strong legit well setup 160HP is really cool. You are not that heavy a guy and your a good aggressive rider. Yes that 860 is sweet but it may not really be that nec for the kind of sled we are talking about. BUT WHO KNOWS...might be even that much more fun yet!
The answer is probably wether or not the assault's new Walker Shocks live and perform and wether the 146 track is good all around. We won't know that for certain until this time next season. I'm still thoroughly disgusted that a mtn sleds shocks have to be pulled and rebuilt so often!
Gonna ride the other options and get some more experience. My buddy who has a ported 800 single piper that is supposed to be super duper strong. He is very meticulous and frog hairs things to get that extra extra. His stuff has always ran very strong. There are reports that the 800 ported reeds and twin pipes with race gas is a runner too. I kick myself for not riding Erin Beukelman's 08 improver 800 at Anthony Lakes..worse I should have bought that sled! For what you got that was the best deal.
I'm not sold on the Assault just yet. I rode it briefly and I would not trade my 660 for it but it was stock and prototypical. My 660 is maxed out while there is a mile of potential still in the assault. I'm not sold that the assault track is the best option either. After riding it (the 155) this past weekend alot...then based on my earlier experience on the actual assault sled I firmly believe my series 5 with screws is a better overall track. But still yet I don't think it was a good a race and firm setup track as my finger track. I just haven't gotten a chance to put a finger on the IQ chassis so that I can really make that statement of what is best in the all around. That unknown is the 10 super deep days out of 50 that we got this year. On the edge it did just fine but the IQ is an entirely different animal for transfer and weight balance.
Do you buy the Assault for $10,400 2 cool vent it, Better Board it, SLP single it and go ride the living crap out of it being worth about $11 gizel?
or do you buy
800 RMK SWIFT for $9,400 buy the new lesser priced FOX with evol, TI coils, a 144 cut and screwed, single pipe, 2 Cool Vents, and Better Boards for the similar money?
I think you will find that on a real 450lbs sled with the shorter track a strong legit well setup 160HP is really cool. You are not that heavy a guy and your a good aggressive rider. Yes that 860 is sweet but it may not really be that nec for the kind of sled we are talking about. BUT WHO KNOWS...might be even that much more fun yet!
The answer is probably wether or not the assault's new Walker Shocks live and perform and wether the 146 track is good all around. We won't know that for certain until this time next season. I'm still thoroughly disgusted that a mtn sleds shocks have to be pulled and rebuilt so often!
Hammer, boy can the camera angle be decieving. This is Hoby. I always enjoy racing you and am glad you could come. I would like to set the records straight, we know who won most of those races, and I am still not convinced that you won any. Each race was extreamely close, so close that any win was not really much of a win at all. But I will say that if I am not correct, the old tm8 was the overall fastest at Tumalo that day. If the snow conditions were more setup, I believe that I would be saying the Apex was a bit faster, but I believe, that was not the case. As for F Bomb, I did race you on saturday night when you were looking for Terrance, I was the tm8 with the mesh hood. I bogged at the start, which was due to the fact that I such at drag racing, and you got out of the hole like a rocket ship. Good race, it took me all of Dutchman to catch you. As for Facett, the turbo m 1000, he got greedy in tumalo, he kept turning the boost up so high that he went so far as to start turning it down on accident. It was a good thing for the rookie mistake, because Randy and I would have been watching a show if it were not for that, that thing is fast under load!!!
Hey Hobdog, It was a great weekend in Bend! One of the best fast sled turn outs mixed in with a bunch of fun people. The ultimate beauty of redneck outlaw drag racing..everybody goes home THE winner! he he Smiles and laughter all through camp. Can't beat it.
I got done running a couple times and one of the guys said go find Terrance that was supposed to be a fast sled. He pointed at yours so off I went to make big T my beotch on my super fast, not even really mine, loaner. Wooops that wasn't Terrance. Thanks for running!
I think some of those guys would have raced off into the wilderness! I damn near rode Dan Bush's turbo Dragon into the trees. It took her a bit to spool up but man o man once I got to going it was fun. I think I was trying to catch up with Messenbrink..needed about another quarter mile (BUT I WAS REELING HIM IN!).
A really good technique to that kind of racing is too get in front some how and weave...or... as soon as you are in front simply raise up from your tuck, lift, and hold up the I # ONE sign! Declare yourself first before anyone can catch up. You can be first every time if you race to the spot that you designate as the finish! Also helps to do victory passes on the crowd back at the start. They can only see the first fifty feet so that's all you have to do to be the big weiner or ah winner!
Now concerning racing with my very good old buddy R Hartman. Him and I have raced up and down all around for years and years. It's great...we are both so crazy that we both ALWAYS WIN..no ties either..we both win. It's called denial, selective memory, picking your spots, and simple treachery! I can argue a point more viciously but he always busts out some kind of video which he thinks is PROOF. Problem is they are selective as well! I think he might have been a defense lawyer in his past life! I also think he spends his spare time doctoring er I mean editing clips. Notice how they are always way off in the distance and have a photo shoppish graininess? I'm certain he is responsible for many of the best Big Foot video's as well. I also think he plagerizes his videos. One of those looks too familar only it was me on my faster sled that was on the left and winning back then. Something about a nitrous malfunction was all I remember. WAZUP with that Hammertime?
Like we already said..it's like a mini Fairview shootout...we just need a stupid trophy and more testosterone engorgement and we'd have it!
I got done running a couple times and one of the guys said go find Terrance that was supposed to be a fast sled. He pointed at yours so off I went to make big T my beotch on my super fast, not even really mine, loaner. Wooops that wasn't Terrance. Thanks for running!
I think some of those guys would have raced off into the wilderness! I damn near rode Dan Bush's turbo Dragon into the trees. It took her a bit to spool up but man o man once I got to going it was fun. I think I was trying to catch up with Messenbrink..needed about another quarter mile (BUT I WAS REELING HIM IN!).
A really good technique to that kind of racing is too get in front some how and weave...or... as soon as you are in front simply raise up from your tuck, lift, and hold up the I # ONE sign! Declare yourself first before anyone can catch up. You can be first every time if you race to the spot that you designate as the finish! Also helps to do victory passes on the crowd back at the start. They can only see the first fifty feet so that's all you have to do to be the big weiner or ah winner!
Now concerning racing with my very good old buddy R Hartman. Him and I have raced up and down all around for years and years. It's great...we are both so crazy that we both ALWAYS WIN..no ties either..we both win. It's called denial, selective memory, picking your spots, and simple treachery! I can argue a point more viciously but he always busts out some kind of video which he thinks is PROOF. Problem is they are selective as well! I think he might have been a defense lawyer in his past life! I also think he spends his spare time doctoring er I mean editing clips. Notice how they are always way off in the distance and have a photo shoppish graininess? I'm certain he is responsible for many of the best Big Foot video's as well. I also think he plagerizes his videos. One of those looks too familar only it was me on my faster sled that was on the left and winning back then. Something about a nitrous malfunction was all I remember. WAZUP with that Hammertime?
Like we already said..it's like a mini Fairview shootout...we just need a stupid trophy and more testosterone engorgement and we'd have it!
Mathematically ... yes ... you went over first more times total ... but it was close ... no-kidding within a sled length ... in the second batch of runs we took after I had turned my nitrous regulator wide open ... in my opinion we were pulling close to even ... or within inches anyway ... and I felt that I got by you a couple times ... if you watch that video frame-by-frame that's exactly the way I saw it from the seat of my sled ... no camera trickery ... nitrous worked fandamtastic ... wish I could have turned it up more but I was limited by the internal nozzle diameter 
... I'll be getting the drill bit out and fix that ...
Regardless of the days battles ... in the end ... I can't win the horsepower war without spending a bunch more money and that ain't going to happen ... your sled and Daves sled still have the potential to go way up the power adder ladder with just the turn of the nob ... unfortunately I'm maxed out with what I have ... I could double the shot but the bottle would only last half as long ... eventually my nitrous is going to run out ... your boost will not.
Still not over that Heebster … and I quote YOUR mechanic “looks to me like the Yamaha won” and he posted a picture from HIS camera of the event to go with HIS comment ... your response was “dirty no good back stabbn sumbeech” ... and I still have all the action on file if we need to review ... you think OJ would have been acquitted if Kato had video !!!!
No matter how much we bicker Robby … still love you like a brother …
... I'll be getting the drill bit out and fix that ... Regardless of the days battles ... in the end ... I can't win the horsepower war without spending a bunch more money and that ain't going to happen ... your sled and Daves sled still have the potential to go way up the power adder ladder with just the turn of the nob ... unfortunately I'm maxed out with what I have ... I could double the shot but the bottle would only last half as long ... eventually my nitrous is going to run out ... your boost will not.
Still not over that Heebster … and I quote YOUR mechanic “looks to me like the Yamaha won” and he posted a picture from HIS camera of the event to go with HIS comment ... your response was “dirty no good back stabbn sumbeech” ... and I still have all the action on file if we need to review ... you think OJ would have been acquitted if Kato had video !!!!
No matter how much we bicker Robby … still love you like a brother …
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Ha, Now we know that is a FICTIONAL statement. Simply because, if you have ever been around Alan and camara work, neither one of us would have actually been captured in the frame! He can build and tune sleds but his photography skills are nothing less then frustrating! We have hundreds of photos of supposidly death defying stunts accept all you ever see is roost or a ski loop off to the edge. I think he developed his skills photographing UFO's. He's always blaming the camara for the poor performance...kind of like you blaming your sled for all of my VICTORIES. he he he
this ain't bickering..it's pure unadulterated entertainment. Welcome back we missed ya! Gotta keep this place right for what it is...if you know what I mean
this ain't bickering..it's pure unadulterated entertainment. Welcome back we missed ya! Gotta keep this place right for what it is...if you know what I mean
I agree a few were to close to call. I would have a hard time saying I ever saw a Yamaha snow flap during a race. That sled of yours is awesome. If I was half the tuner you are, I would be beating at less boost, but I am just a redneck that likes to ride and bang off of trees. As for next year, don't start drilling, I really don't want to keep turning up the boost ( you know how that goes with two strokes). Fbomb, you are right, it was a great time, and I could not believe the turn out this year. Look forward to see everyone again.
W
winter
Well-known member
Thanks all for visiting
Oregon Girl, Thanks for taking the time to post photos.
Rob, thanks for letting me take the 860 and the 660 for a spin, I liked both, but I would choose the 660 it was the best feeling motor I have tested in a long time the 860 felt super strong and smooth but your 660 was perfect for my apprications and I will defenitly refer to you for set-up when I put one in a chassis..
Randy, I am not sure I met you but have met your dad at the western snowmobile shows and he spoke of you being in Bend.
If you have any interest in an IQR chassis or want to talk about them, I have a shop full of them and a couple roller and built up chassis for sale.
You can make the IQR chassis feel like a RAW chassis a M series chassis or a hay wagon (which is the they come stock), I have been building them since they came out in 05 and have tried almost everything, they can be fantastic or just so so depending on suspension and set-up, they are almost bullet proof compared to any consumer Mt.sled. I have gotton one down to 434 lbs with an automotive turbo, and currently have two that are around 420 lbs.
I look forward to talking with you all in the future, by the way I had the fastest sled up there this weekend, just kidding, I believe it was actually the slowest, but it did have the coolest stickers.
Oregon Girl, Thanks for taking the time to post photos.
Rob, thanks for letting me take the 860 and the 660 for a spin, I liked both, but I would choose the 660 it was the best feeling motor I have tested in a long time the 860 felt super strong and smooth but your 660 was perfect for my apprications and I will defenitly refer to you for set-up when I put one in a chassis..
Randy, I am not sure I met you but have met your dad at the western snowmobile shows and he spoke of you being in Bend.
If you have any interest in an IQR chassis or want to talk about them, I have a shop full of them and a couple roller and built up chassis for sale.
You can make the IQR chassis feel like a RAW chassis a M series chassis or a hay wagon (which is the they come stock), I have been building them since they came out in 05 and have tried almost everything, they can be fantastic or just so so depending on suspension and set-up, they are almost bullet proof compared to any consumer Mt.sled. I have gotton one down to 434 lbs with an automotive turbo, and currently have two that are around 420 lbs.
I look forward to talking with you all in the future, by the way I had the fastest sled up there this weekend, just kidding, I believe it was actually the slowest, but it did have the coolest stickers.
Rob -- LMAO the picture WAS terrible !!!
Jason -- I'll get a hold of you next time I go up north to visit with Jackson.
Winter -- I'm actually in Klamath Falls (Southern Oregon) and I haven't been to an snow show since the 2004-2005 season ... normally my dad has his helper/friend Ron with him at the shows ... I'll put you down in the old memory banks as the guy to contact for IQR info ... I'll be in the market if I can get my SCNOSApex sold for a reasonable price ... What am I looking at spending for a used (not thrashed) Red/Black, 600 IQR, 8-10 gal tank, setup with a 144 rear ???
Jason -- I'll get a hold of you next time I go up north to visit with Jackson.
Winter -- I'm actually in Klamath Falls (Southern Oregon) and I haven't been to an snow show since the 2004-2005 season ... normally my dad has his helper/friend Ron with him at the shows ... I'll put you down in the old memory banks as the guy to contact for IQR info ... I'll be in the market if I can get my SCNOSApex sold for a reasonable price ... What am I looking at spending for a used (not thrashed) Red/Black, 600 IQR, 8-10 gal tank, setup with a 144 rear ???
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Winter builds some of the most beautiful IQ Racer Chassis sleds I've ever seen. I go to almost every show from Hay Days west plus all of the races and not one has come close to the turbo that won the mod show. Awesome...would love to test ride it!
Those 660's do run hard especially for what they are. I would be happy to help you set up a Carls Performance 660 like this one. I'm not familar with the racer chassis for airbox and such so there might be some minor stuff but we can work through that and get your customers REAL HAPPY. The little black 660 runs good..the 07 version was a bit more finnicky because of some carb changes but I think that I finally got it all worked out. I was mad at it late last year and half of this one but now I'm happy again. Call me anytime! Rob
Those 660's do run hard especially for what they are. I would be happy to help you set up a Carls Performance 660 like this one. I'm not familar with the racer chassis for airbox and such so there might be some minor stuff but we can work through that and get your customers REAL HAPPY. The little black 660 runs good..the 07 version was a bit more finnicky because of some carb changes but I think that I finally got it all worked out. I was mad at it late last year and half of this one but now I'm happy again. Call me anytime! Rob
Lots Of Snow,central Oregon
Come On Up!!!high Country,waiting For Ya!!!!!! 4+feet.
Come On Up!!!high Country,waiting For Ya!!!!!! 4+feet.
W
winter
Well-known member
Iqr
Thanks Rob, I should have a few pretty ones in Boise this year, and maybe build a couple the following year with the new big bores.
Hey Randy, PM me with your e-mail.
I will let you know on the Racers, it is very dependent on how much you want the sled to weight, what you do for suspension, tunnel and what the sled is to be used for.
I know you know all this stuff, just let me know if I can help you.
Thanks Rob, I should have a few pretty ones in Boise this year, and maybe build a couple the following year with the new big bores.
Hey Randy, PM me with your e-mail.
I will let you know on the Racers, it is very dependent on how much you want the sled to weight, what you do for suspension, tunnel and what the sled is to be used for.
I know you know all this stuff, just let me know if I can help you.
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